please help! cecotrope staining - should i be concerned?

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sydneya

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Sorry this is going to be long; I want to give as much context and details as possible.

I adopted my lion-head bunny this year at like the beginning of June. She's est. to be 2-3 yrs old, and she weighs about 4lbs, and where I adopted her from said that she was still having some poop issues because her previous owners had her on an all-veggie diet to counter that they were giving her mainly pellets + some hay. The first couple weeks I had her, her cecotropes were just a total ball of mush and would stick to her long fur or just be uneaten, and I had to baby wipe her butt daily, sometimes multiple times a day since she would produce cecotropes more than once. Since then, I was able to firm up her cecotropes a lot, giving her mostly hay, about 1 cup of veggies packed, and then pellets just in stacking cups or mixed into her hay box to forage for. The vet didn't seem concerned, and I got her a sanitary trim while there to help with the cecotropes, sometimes leaving stains on her fur or sticking to the fur and leaving stains all over her mat since it was so long. Still, otherwise, I haven't had to clean her butt anymore, and I see her eat the cecotropes straight from herself. Occasionally I'll see a couple of individual circles of a cecotrope like it got broken off from the rest, but they have a defined form. She just got spayed maybe three weeks ago now, and right after her spay, her cecotropes were terrible, but now she's been fine and eating them again.

With all this said, I still see minor stains from her cecotropes; she usually ends up pooping/eating them in the same spot, so even with cleaning the area with a vinegar mix, the area on her mat still gets darker over the days since I can't entirely remove the color with the vinegar mix. I attached an image below of what the stain looks like, but when I checked her butt, the areas were clean, and she's not leaving stains across her mat like she was, just in the one small area. I saw a post saying that there shouldn't be any staining at all, so I adjusted her diet again to the following:
- unlimited hay (mix between timothy, orchard, oat, and botanical. There's also a minimal amount of alfalfa mixed in there bc that's the only hay I could get her to eat during her spay recovery)
- no treats or fruit (before, she would occasionally get a strawberry, blueberry, raspberry, banana piece, or carrot. And then I had some freeze-dried TINY fruit pieces that I'd hide in her hay for enrichment, moringa bites, dried papaya, or some dried flowers/leaves/herbs to mix in her hay. and I was giving her oxbow digestive treats daily within the first month or so of having her to firm up her poop, but none of these items were given in excess, I just liked to make sure she had a variety to keep her interest since she wouldn't eat hay before because she grew up having only veggies)
- no pellets (she was already barely getting pellets, so this isn't a drastic change for her at all)
- about 1 cup of veggies, which has a mix of the following: the biggest amount is fennel + bok choy, then the next amount is some spring mix, and then the smallest amount is cilantro (1-2 springs depending on sprig size) + oregano (tiny amount every other day or so), and then very occasionally a leaf or two from a brussel sprout. Her veggies do change, and she's been given radicchio, escarole, endive, red/green lettuce mix, arugula, kale, basil, mint, thyme, dill, lemon balm, microgreens, watercress, mustard/collard greens, dandelion leaves, wheatgrass, and some others I can't remember all in the respective amounts for each green. She also gets celery sometimes and very rarely cucumber or carrot.


Is this the current adjustment, and is the current veggie mix fine? Do you see anywhere for adjustments, or am I on the right track, and she's possibly still just adjusting from 2-3yrs of being fed only veggies, the stress of being surrendered, then the stress of adoption and settling in, and the stress of her spay surgery, and I need to give it time with the current restricted diet I started up on Friday until there's no more staining and then start to introduce the herbs, florals, treats, pellets, and fruits slowly?


IMG_6021.jpg
 
If there are uneaten cecos most often a too rich is the culprit. But I gather that your bunny doesn't leave any lying around, she does eat them right from her bottom - so it's not a motility issue that would make her drop them and eat them from the floor, quite often caused by being overweight, right?

If the staines are the only issue I, personally - if it would bother me, would switch to a darker flooring ;).

Vingar is great for pee staines, since it dissolves the calcium that cause those stains to be rather stubborn, for poop stains I would try a normal detergent like soft soap or whatever.
 
If there are uneaten cecos most often a too rich is the culprit. But I gather that your bunny doesn't leave any lying around, she does eat them right from her bottom - so it's not a motility issue that would make her drop them and eat them from the floor, quite often caused by being overweight, right?

If the staines are the only issue I, personally - if it would bother me, would switch to a darker flooring ;).

Vingar is great for pee staines, since it dissolves the calcium that cause those stains to be rather stubborn, for poop stains I would try a normal detergent like soft soap or whatever.
Yea, she eats the straight from her butt; only ever seen a max of 4 of the individual balls that make up the cecotrope left behind, but otherwise, it's all eaten. She's in a healthy weight range, too, so I don't think it is motility related either... the stains don't bother me since I like having the cream/white mat so I can track the stains or if she pees outside her litter box easily, and I'm able to get them out right away with her weekly bedding wash. I'll try a detergent solution in my Bissel instead of a vinegar solution for when I spot clean throughout the week to help get the spots out.

But if otherwise, nothing seems too concerning; then I'll keep with the new diet and see if staining improves at all.

Thanks for the response and advice!
 
I would give the new diet a couple more weeks. If it's still happening then, she may be sensitive to one or more of the veggies/greens. You may have to start eliminating veggies one at a time (eliminate one veg every 4 days or so), to find which ones are causing the watery cecals. I would start with the high water content ones, like the cucumber and celery, as I've read of those causing issues for some rabbits.

Another possibility to consider, is if there are very many mature oat seed heads in her hay mix, this could be giving her more carbs than she can tolerate, and causing or contributing to the poop issues.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Cecotropes
https://rabbit.org/2013/01/disorders-of-the-cecum/
One thing I always recommend when someone is making diet changes with their rabbit, is to monitor the rabbits weight regularly, to ensure no unhealthy weight loss occurs. A rabbit needs the proper amount of protein, fiber, and nutrients, to ensure good weight maintenance, good digestive function, and good health.

Monitoring your rabbits weight

If you continue with the pellet free diet for very long, I would suggest adding a salt lick, as she won't be getting the necessary dietary sodium from the pellets. And make sure she always has plenty of grass hay, refreshed at least a couple times a day.
 
I would give the new diet a couple more weeks. If it's still happening then, she may be sensitive to one or more of the veggies/greens. You may have to start eliminating veggies one at a time (eliminate one veg every 4 days or so), to find which ones are causing the watery cecals. I would start with the high water content ones, like the cucumber and celery, as I've read of those causing issues for some rabbits.

Another possibility to consider, is if there are very many mature oat seed heads in her hay mix, this could be giving her more carbs than she can tolerate, and causing or contributing to the poop issues.

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Cecotropes
https://rabbit.org/2013/01/disorders-of-the-cecum/
One thing I always recommend when someone is making diet changes with their rabbit, is to monitor the rabbits weight regularly, to ensure no unhealthy weight loss occurs. A rabbit needs the proper amount of protein, fiber, and nutrients, to ensure good weight maintenance, good digestive function, and good health.

Monitoring your rabbits weight

If you continue with the pellet free diet for very long, I would suggest adding a salt lick, as she won't be getting the necessary dietary sodium from the pellets. And make sure she always has plenty of grass hay, refreshed at least a couple times a day.
Thank you! All her hays are oxbow so i’ll check about the oat hay. And i make sure she has hay in her litter box, hay carrier by her litter box, and just another box of it for her to graze on when she’s not in her litter box all added to and mixed up frequently. I’ll bring back the pellets as something i use in her stacking cups, foraging toys, and hay for enrichment but just not the 1/8th cup served in a bowl. usually i do around 1/8th cup mixed between her stacking cups, foraging toys, and hay so she usually doesn’t end up eating the full 1/8th cup since some remain at the bottom of the hay box.

I haven’t been giving her any celery/cucumber since she just got that occasionally but if i don’t see improvement i’ll start removing greens that could be more harsh on sensitive buns.

thanks again!
 
Sorry this is going to be long; I want to give as much context and details as possible.

I adopted my lion-head bunny this year at like the beginning of June. She's est. to be 2-3 yrs old, and she weighs about 4lbs, and where I adopted her from said that she was still having some poop issues because her previous owners had her on an all-veggie diet to counter that they were giving her mainly pellets + some hay. The first couple weeks I had her, her cecotropes were just a total ball of mush and would stick to her long fur or just be uneaten, and I had to baby wipe her butt daily, sometimes multiple times a day since she would produce cecotropes more than once. Since then, I was able to firm up her cecotropes a lot, giving her mostly hay, about 1 cup of veggies packed, and then pellets just in stacking cups or mixed into her hay box to forage for. The vet didn't seem concerned, and I got her a sanitary trim while there to help with the cecotropes, sometimes leaving stains on her fur or sticking to the fur and leaving stains all over her mat since it was so long. Still, otherwise, I haven't had to clean her butt anymore, and I see her eat the cecotropes straight from herself. Occasionally I'll see a couple of individual circles of a cecotrope like it got broken off from the rest, but they have a defined form. She just got spayed maybe three weeks ago now, and right after her spay, her cecotropes were terrible, but now she's been fine and eating them again.

With all this said, I still see minor stains from her cecotropes; she usually ends up pooping/eating them in the same spot, so even with cleaning the area with a vinegar mix, the area on her mat still gets darker over the days since I can't entirely remove the color with the vinegar mix. I attached an image below of what the stain looks like, but when I checked her butt, the areas were clean, and she's not leaving stains across her mat like she was, just in the one small area. I saw a post saying that there shouldn't be any staining at all, so I adjusted her diet again to the following:
- unlimited hay (mix between timothy, orchard, oat, and botanical. There's also a minimal amount of alfalfa mixed in there bc that's the only hay I could get her to eat during her spay recovery)
- no treats or fruit (before, she would occasionally get a strawberry, blueberry, raspberry, banana piece, or carrot. And then I had some freeze-dried TINY fruit pieces that I'd hide in her hay for enrichment, moringa bites, dried papaya, or some dried flowers/leaves/herbs to mix in her hay. and I was giving her oxbow digestive treats daily within the first month or so of having her to firm up her poop, but none of these items were given in excess, I just liked to make sure she had a variety to keep her interest since she wouldn't eat hay before because she grew up having only veggies)
- no pellets (she was already barely getting pellets, so this isn't a drastic change for her at all)
- about 1 cup of veggies, which has a mix of the following: the biggest amount is fennel + bok choy, then the next amount is some spring mix, and then the smallest amount is cilantro (1-2 springs depending on sprig size) + oregano (tiny amount every other day or so), and then very occasionally a leaf or two from a brussel sprout. Her veggies do change, and she's been given radicchio, escarole, endive, red/green lettuce mix, arugula, kale, basil, mint, thyme, dill, lemon balm, microgreens, watercress, mustard/collard greens, dandelion leaves, wheatgrass, and some others I can't remember all in the respective amounts for each green. She also gets celery sometimes and very rarely cucumber or carrot.


Is this the current adjustment, and is the current veggie mix fine? Do you see anywhere for adjustments, or am I on the right track, and she's possibly still just adjusting from 2-3yrs of being fed only veggies, the stress of being surrendered, then the stress of adoption and settling in, and the stress of her spay surgery, and I need to give it time with the current restricted diet I started up on Friday until there's no more staining and then start to introduce the herbs, florals, treats, pellets, and fruits slowly?


View attachment 65117
Hello! I'm not a bun expert just a bun mom to a very sensitive baby. My bunny started doing that when I changed her hay from store-bought timothy hay to a better quality more nutritious timothy hay from a farmer. The staining was much worse. My carpet for ruined while her bottom stayed clean. 😅 You're already adjusting her diet so that great. I also gave mine a probiotic called Fibreplex for a week and it got better relatively quickly. I would recommend it or another high fibre supplement if you can find some.
 

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