(RIP) UPDATE: Luna has stones in both kidneys

[myheart]

Just a quick vent.....!!!!

So today was fluids day. The last time we did fluids everything went extremely well.

Today was a whole other story. I had everything all ready and in place, including a new needle. Brought Luna in so she could get used to the cage and confinement. Patrick was there with us to offer support. Every time I tried to put the needle in, Luna would flinch or jerk. Then I thought I finally had the needle in, and Luna started to thump. She has never thumped before, so I thought something was wrong for sure. So I ended up letting her go without even a tenth of the fluids she should have had today. I was so upset and in tears about not getting everything done the same way as last time.

Arrrrggggg!!! I thought we had this all down pat, and then this happens. I just hate doing this so much!! I understand that it would cost a bazillion dollars for me to run Luna in someplace to have this done every other day for the rest of her life, but I just don't know what else to do on days like this. Has Luna learned how to get out of getting fluids? Or am I just not being assertive enough? The vets and techs make sound like it's a one-two-three you're done sort of thing. Well, it's not for some one like me....

So, now I sit here at work ready to break into tears because I feel like I totally let Luna down by not getting the fluids into her. I just have this awful thought that her kidneys will stop instantly overnight because I didn't get the fluids done. I know it won't happen, but I want her to stay on her schedule so there is no opportunity for something else to go wrong with her.

myheart

 

[Amy27]

I am sorry myheart. You are going to have your bad days. Even the vets and vet tech have there bad days. Nothing is always going to go as planned. It isn't anything you did wrong or could have done different. I would try not to beat yourself up about it. I think you have to allow both you and Luna to have days where things are not going to go as planned and that is ok. It happens with everything in life. Also when my vet tech comes over Chase isn't any better for her then she is for me. Chase is in her house and she knows it. So sometimes I think it isn't so much that the vet and vet techs are good, it is that the rabbit is already scared to be there so there attitudes don't come out as much. That is a good thing that Luna feels so comfortable around you and her home that she is going to let you know what she thinks about all this.

Chase tries things to get away to and to let me know she is mad. Chase always flinches too, even at the vets.

These buns don't understand what is going on but they know they don't like it and are going to show us in the only way they know how. But we know what is better for them. It does stink. I hate it everyday.

I feel so bad that you are upset. I have been there. I know how much all of this really drains you. You are trying to do what is best but it is so hard. One thing you could check with your vet about is if Luna has a day like today can you give her more fluids tomorrow? or syringe her some fluids? I know my vet allows me to do that if Chase is having a day where she just won't cooperate.

If you really want Luna to stay on schedule and feel better getting the fluids in today what I would do is try again when you get home from work. If she won't be still I would try to take her somewhere unfamiliar like the vets would be. I have thought of my garage, the back seat of my car or a friends house.

Good luck. I hope you are feeling better now.

 

[naturestee]

:hug:

It's ok. Less fluids one day isn't going to kill her, probably won't even harm her. If possible it would be a good idea to try again after work today, like Amy said. My thought is that there probably wasn't anything wrong with what you did today, it's just that Luna is starting to be her little Dutchie self, wrapping you around her paw and trying to avoid her icky medical treatments.

 

[myheart]

naturestee wrote:

:hug:

..., it's just that Luna is starting to be her little Dutchie self, wrapping you around her paw and trying to avoid her icky medical treatments.

You're probably right. She has been such a wild-girl of late, that sometimes I don't know what gets into her. Today she did a little bunny-500 in the living room as I was getting ready for work. I had to do a double-take to see who was running around like a mad-bunny. It was Miss Luna Belle sitting in the middle of the living room!!! If I had not seen the x-rays myself, I would swear the vet was mistaken.

I tell ya though.... She is going to be the end of me yet!!!

myheart

 

[LuvaBun]

I'm sorry you had such a bad day :hug:. I agree with trying again when you get home.

On the bright side - at least Luna felt well enough to thump and fool you into thinking something was wrong . We know these Dutchies are a cunning and clever breed

Jan

 

[myheart]

LuvaBun wrote:

On the bright side - at least Luna felt well enough to thump and fool you into thinking something was wrong . We know these Dutchies are a cunning and clever breed

Jan

:yeahthat: They are so clever, are they not?!!! I don't know if I will ever be able to adopt any other breed (even though I really want a pair of flemmies since I am unable to have Oberon) because I have been hanging around my Dutch for so long now. Would any other breed even compare to what a Dutch is capable of? Maybe it would be nice to have a bunny who is not so clever as a nice change of pace...

I will probably try to do her fluids tomorrow. It is usually such a hub-bub when I get home with getting everyone cleaned up, and salads prepared and handed out. Lately, by the time I get salads out, Luna is pretty well tired of Patrick's advances that she has been coming to me so I am able to rescue her. I usually put her in Zappa's cage and close the door a bit. It usually deters Patrick long enough that he forgets what he really wants and waits ever-so nicely for his salad. Then, by the time there is peace from Patrick and Zappa being in bed with salads, that Luna is in such a tizz to get her salad. Like I said, Luna exudes such an energy when she is excited, that I can't help but be a good bunny-slave to make sure she get what she wants she wants it!!!

I guess I just want there to be consistency in what we do to keep everything on schedule. The techs said to keep things the same so she gets used to the fluids. But then one day it is good to have Patrick in the room, and next day Luna is distracted by his presence. It just gets to be too much some days....

myheart

 

[kherrmann3]

Ha! Bunnies are so funny! That kind of behavior reminds me of dogs that hurt their paw and are limping and whining about it until they get to the vet. They fake it and bounce around at the vet until you leave and they're "safe". Little boogers! I am glad to hear that Luna is doing Bunny 500's! That's great news!

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree, dutches are smart but because they're smart they can be boogers! When I'm cutting nails I have to not let Tony win at the "I'm gonna jump out and run away" game, or he'll always think he can beat me at nail trim time. I gave in when I first had him on trying to keep him in a cage and now there's no stopping him. He purposely tests his boundaries--running out the front door into the apartment building's foyer whenever possible and thumping so that I know he's "escaped", chewing on something he's not supposed to and looking up at me to see if I noticed, etc etc.

I think once Luna knows it's going to be a fact of life for her and there's no arguing about it, she may eventually realize that it makes her feel better and then she'll be more willing to sit still. It's hard not to give in and give her a break, but doing so will make her realize there's really no arguing with mom about it. Of course, missing one day isn't going to be a problem, though. Just don't tell her that. [[hugs]]

 

[myheart]

:bunny18Yay, we finally did it!!!! Luna finally had her fluids today, and only fussed a little bit!

I decided to give her fluids an hour early in case I needed to make another attempt if the first efforts didn't go well. This time there was no flinching, jumping, or thumping. She did get fuss towards the end because her skin was probably getting tight. I toldLuna she absolutely had to get the full amount today to keep her kidneys flushed. Not sure if that helped her at all, but it certainly made me not back down to her fussing. So, yay, she had the full amount!!! I felt so bad letting her go with the huge "fluid hump" on her shoulder, but I know it is for her own good.

Thanks everyone for the pep-talk. She made me such a total wreck yesterday with her silliness. So today was such a relief to get the fluids done and out of the way. I don't know what I would do without the support and strength from all of you!

myheart (& Luna Belle :rabbithop)

 

[naturestee]

Yay! Was Patrick there? I wonder if he makes Luna want to get away more sometimes. Who wants to get stuck with a needle when they can snuggle with their love?

 

[myheart]

No Patrick today, just the two of us.

I think it actually made a difference to give the fluids an hour early according to Luna's bunny-activity schedule. I still caught her during her napping time, so she seemed a bit more calm than she did yesterday.

I think if I had waited the extra hour, she would have been more awake and foraging for foods or trying to get groomings from some-bun. Maybe that was the problem yesterday, she was ready to get into trouble when I wanted her to be good/calm. So Patrick could have compounded the issues of what Luna thought she had on her own agenda planner, which were foods and mischief.

I will have to consult Luna's agenda planner from now on to make sure we are on the same page. She is probably more organized with her planner than I am with mine...

myheart

 

[LuvaBun]

myheart wrote:

I will have to consult Luna's agenda planner from now on to make sure we are on the same page. She is probably more organized with her planner than I am with mine...

myheart

Had to smile at this

Great that she got all her fluids today - she probably understood every word you said too

Jan

 

[Bo B Bunny]

You are doing a great job for her! and it's hard to see them with the fluid, but it's what's best...... it's a good thing even if it doesn't look like it.

Good girl, Luna..... *kisses*

 

[Amy27]

myheart, How are you and Luna doing? Does Luna go back to the vet next week? I am thinking of both of you. I hope you guys get some good news when you go back.

 

[myheart]

Hi Amy, I just posted on your thread, and then I saw that you posted here...lol

Yes, Luna goes in for another urinalysis on March 10th to make sure that her kidney infection is gone. It will be about two weeks since she ended her antibiotics for that. I am not sure if the doctor will want another x-ray at that time, or if he will wait until April 1st when I take both Patch and Luna down for dentals. He had said last time that Luna should be able to have a dental if everything checks out okay. I do hope she will be able to have a dental because I was giving her a cheek-rub last night and she started honking right away. I moved my hand to pet her back, and the honking stopped. So, I think her teeth could be starting to hurt her.

Giving fluids is still a horrible time. I keep reminding myself, and Luna, that we need to do it to keep her somewhat healthy. It doesn't help much, but we have been getting pretty close to the whole amount of fluid in. I have found, though, that I do need to give the fluids while she is still in her food-coma from her noon salad. After two o'clock, she gets silly and starts up with her running around and being naughty. It is virtually impossible to keep her quiet forfive minutes when she is ready to be silly. :biggrin2:She is a heart-breaker she is...

myheart

 

[myheart]

I know I should have posted about this past weekend, but I guess I just have to expect "off days" for Luna.

It started on Friday going into Saturday/Sunday. Luna didn't eat all of her night-time salad on Friday, and by Saturday she really wasn't excited about anything. I could tell she didn't feel well, but it is still a guessing game as to whether it is her kidneys or just a gassy/upset tummy. So I started all of the usual stuff... pedialyte, simethicone, pineapple juice,wet green, and lots of hay (in case she wanted a nibble).

By Saturday night Luna was in pain even with the Tramadol. I felt so bad for her because I just didn't know what to make her comfortable. I woke up around two in the morning, and I knew that I needed to check on Luna then even though I had an alarm set to go off in another thirty minutes to check on her. Poor baby was all bunched up in her cage. She really was in pain...

I took her out and gave her a bit more juice to keep her hydrated. Then I sat with her on the sofa. I put her on my chest all rapped up in a blanket. I knew I needed to keep her warm because her little ears were so cold. So we sat all bundled up and I gave her light tummy rubs to help ease the pain. It took Luna a bit to relax and understand that rubs and warmth were a good thing. Once she did relax, we sat for at least an hour together. By that time she started to get fussy again, so I thought I should put her in her pen in case she needed to potty or something. She immediately stretched a bit and looked so much more relaxed.

I called Naturestee the next day to find out more about the Tramadol. She said that the drug only takes away the pain and that it does not alter the personality into a drugged stupor. So the pain Luna was having was probably another stone passing. Naturestee said that Luna would have to be on some really strong stuff to dull that sort of pain.

By Sunday evening, Luna was feeling so much better. She ate all of her night-time salad and was ready to cuddle with Patch and Zappa. At least I know that Luna's new "sick place" is in Zappa's litter pan. I always feel bad when I have to put Zappa to bed and I have to take Luna out. I even tried to setup a litter pan the same way for Luna, but it was not good enough. It has to be Zappa's pan or nothing at all.

So anyhow, Luna is back to her sunshiny self again. She was so excited for her apple snack for breakfast this morning that she just looked silly trying to get to the snack first. Her excitement makes me so happy, yet I end up in tears every time.

myheart

 

[tonyshuman]

Saw your post in the thread about Chase, how Luna's personality has blossomed and you are sad that you didn't catch this earlier because it means her life will be shorter, now that she's finally come into her own personality. I wanted to say that she may be such a unique bunny now because she's feeling much better than she has for a long time. I think she may have had subclinical problems with calcium metabolism for a very long time, but it just was putting stress on her system and having her not feel super, but not feeling so bad that you or the vet noticed.

For instance, people who get diabetes just feel kinda bad for months before serious problems show up--and some pretty serious and irreversible damage can be done to your organs in this time before you develop full-blown symptoms. My bf developed type 1 in his late teens, and he just felt sluggish, tired, and yucky for months. His eyesight deteriorated, and eventually he went to the doctor because he could barely see. That's how he learned he had diabetes.

Another example is that I was clinically depressed from probably about 6th grade through 12th grade. I didn't know because middle school sucks for everyone and that's when people are starting to develop their personalities, so it was thought by those around me that I was just a sad, quiet, insecure kid. I performed really well at school and had a few friends, so I wasn't quite like all the other kids, but I still wasn't too far from average to be noticed. It finally came to a head in my senior year, because of all the stress of college applications, tests, etc, and I was crippled by my depression, couldn't do anything, wanted to die, etc. I finally was told that I had some genetic predisposition for depression, and I got some treatment, and I finally felt like myself again, which I hadn't really felt in years. It was actually a surprise to me that I could just be happy to get up in the morning. It wasn't anyone's fault for not noticing, and everything's fine now.

Something like this could have been happening with Luna--she's been metabolizing calcium poorly for years, but it never was so bad that anyone noticed (not to mention that she wasn't very well looked after until just over a year ago when she was rescued). She just didn't seem "herself" because she wasn't feeling tip-top, but nobody noticed because she had other health problems that were more urgent and she wasn't taken care of well. The gradual stress on her kidneys built until they stopped working at full capacity, and she got stones and all of these things that you can see and measure.

It may be sad that you won't get to enjoy Luna's lovely personality for years and years, as you would love to do. However, it is WONDERFUL that she is feeling well enough to be herself again. It means that these years you have with her may be shorter than some people will have with their rabbits, but they will be very rich.:hug:

 

[myheart]

tonyshuman, thanks for sharing your stories. You are probably very right about Luna. Her problem with being able to eliminatecalcium probably did take a backseat to all of her other health problems until Naturestee rescued her and figured everything out to make her feel better. At this point I have to keep in mind that she is doing well for her condition. It is so difficult to not cry while enjoying Luna's rays of sunshine. She has really become my heart-bunny and I do not know what I will do if she starts renal failure. I know I will be such a basket-case that no one on the forum will be able to tolerate me anymore (lol).

I just wanted Patch and Luna to grow old together. I would never want Patch to go through another loss like he did with Benjamin's passing. It broke my heart to see him depressed. Luna is the love of his life, the matriarch of the trio, and the rays of sunshine in my world.

myheart

 

[LuvaBun]

myheart, the way you write about Luna is so touching. It's obvious the love you have for her, and I know she feels it.

Glad to hear that you are managing the fluids. I expect it's going to be 'normal' for Luna to have some bad days, especially if she's passing the stones. But you sitting with her on your chest, keeping her warm and giving tummy rubs sounds like a wonderful way to bond

Jan

ps - Don't worry about us 'not tolerating' you - not gonna happen :hug:

Jan

 

[myheart]

Thanks Jan. It means a lot to me to have some support and encouragement from other forum members. And, yes, all of this has been a bonding experience for Luna and I. When I was holding her that early morning, I realized how much I miss holding a bunny of their free-will to be held. I used to hold Maggie (my first heart-bunny) every night for an hour or so. She never minded, so it became our routine. The comforts of holding a relaxed and calmbunny are indescribable to anyone who has never had the experience. For some reason they just "fit" on you like a baby fits on his mother. They just fill that empty place right over ones heart and just within reach for a kiss.

I talked with Naturestee quite a bit on Sunday about Luna and her condition. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that Luna belongs to Naturestee when she is not feeling well, and she is all mine when she is feeling well and silly. I think Naturestee guessed something was wrong when I started the conversation with, "Guess what your rabbit is doing now...". She seems willing to accept the "not well" Luna as hers.

So if you want, Jan, I will also tell you what your rabbit is doing when she is not feeling well because the cuddles will stay with me....

myheart