tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear of positive progress! Also glad to hear Luna's not a "mean drunk"--although I'm sure she's still acting mostly like herself. 
(RIP) UPDATE: Luna has stones in both kidneys
- Thread starter myheart
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myheart wrote:
OMG they are so sweet together.
Just to let you know (not that Luna is going to leave you yet)
but I thought Beau would die when Babette died and he proved to be one tough cookie of a holland lop..has had a lot of medical problems but held his own. We can never know for sure how they will be...
but right now we are hoping that Luna will be doing fine with all the treatment that she is getting from her worried mom.
'Hugs"
Maureen
I had to make my last post a bit short with trying to get last minute things done before work.
As I was saying, I think that having Patch and Zappa in the room really helped Luna stay calm. When I left her out of the cage, she didn't seem as agitated as she had been. Luna was more inclined to hang out and not be in a tizz about getting out or showing aggression.
I was walking past the bunny-room less than five minutes after we finished with fluids and this is what I found....
My trio providing comfort for each other. They sat this way for the entire hour prior to my leaving for work. I think Luna just needs her companions to support her during those five minutes of fluids. Poor Patrick was beside himself though. He wanted her out, and kept coming to me to get my help. He was so agitated himself, he didn't know what to do for her. He just wanted his true love with him.
I feel so bad for having tried to isolate her from the rest of the household thinking that quiet would be best. Luna just needed to know that somebun in the room loved her and waited for her.
myheart
OMG they are so sweet together.
Just to let you know (not that Luna is going to leave you yet)
but I thought Beau would die when Babette died and he proved to be one tough cookie of a holland lop..has had a lot of medical problems but held his own. We can never know for sure how they will be...
but right now we are hoping that Luna will be doing fine with all the treatment that she is getting from her worried mom.
'Hugs"
Maureen
myheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks Maureen.
I think Patrick and I will be in the same boat if Luna has to leave us. I know Zappa really cares for Luna also, but Patch and Luna just have that chemistry. Luna is just the matriarch of the trio plain and simple. She picks the cuddle places and the others meet up with her at some points of the day.
I just have to count my blessings that I am able to provide some sort of care for her. As much as I wish I would have insisted on an x-ray last October when she wasn't feeling well, I have to move on and be happy with how ever long I will have my little girl. The only thing that could have been different, would have been the ability to change her diet sooner to prevent such a quick build-up of calcium. If it was meant to happen, it was meant to happen... just at a slower pace if I had known sooner....
myheart
I think Patrick and I will be in the same boat if Luna has to leave us. I know Zappa really cares for Luna also, but Patch and Luna just have that chemistry. Luna is just the matriarch of the trio plain and simple. She picks the cuddle places and the others meet up with her at some points of the day.
I just have to count my blessings that I am able to provide some sort of care for her. As much as I wish I would have insisted on an x-ray last October when she wasn't feeling well, I have to move on and be happy with how ever long I will have my little girl. The only thing that could have been different, would have been the ability to change her diet sooner to prevent such a quick build-up of calcium. If it was meant to happen, it was meant to happen... just at a slower pace if I had known sooner....
myheart
Changing her diet sooner or having an x-ray done last Oct probably would not have altered the situation.
If you are like me you are reflecting back and blaming yourself for something that you really didn't have control over. I think that we all do that.
I had very sick rabbit (Babette) last year at this time and lost her in June;
Ididn't even know that I had a problems developing with Gabriel last spring because Babette was taking up all my time and energy
I lost Gabriel1 month later( probably could not have been prevented because of terrible state he was in when I fostered and adopted him)
but there is a lingering feeling of 'blame' because I didn't focus on all my rabbits in a normal way when Babette was so ill.
Sometimes I think that we want to feel like we have control over a situation when we really don't.
it just is....
I know that this is particularly hard on you because when I talked to you on the phone I could sense that you are a very empathic and sensitive person and you are feeling Luna's pain and also the potential for pain for the whole trio.
I really know how that feels ..not good at all
but just something that we have to 'get through"
and at this point Luna seems to be holding her own.; she looks good and it sounds as if she is behaving like a happy bun
So that;'s good
Maureen
If you are like me you are reflecting back and blaming yourself for something that you really didn't have control over. I think that we all do that.
I had very sick rabbit (Babette) last year at this time and lost her in June;
Ididn't even know that I had a problems developing with Gabriel last spring because Babette was taking up all my time and energy
I lost Gabriel1 month later( probably could not have been prevented because of terrible state he was in when I fostered and adopted him)
but there is a lingering feeling of 'blame' because I didn't focus on all my rabbits in a normal way when Babette was so ill.
Sometimes I think that we want to feel like we have control over a situation when we really don't.
it just is....
I know that this is particularly hard on you because when I talked to you on the phone I could sense that you are a very empathic and sensitive person and you are feeling Luna's pain and also the potential for pain for the whole trio.
I really know how that feels ..not good at all
but just something that we have to 'get through"
and at this point Luna seems to be holding her own.; she looks good and it sounds as if she is behaving like a happy bun
So that;'s good
Maureen
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I am 99% sure that her malnutrition led to the kidney damage. You have gone above and beyond in her treatment. Maureen's answer is much better than any one I could give, but I just wanted to chime in and say that you are such a great bunny mom to your snuggle crew. I would be a total wreck going through this.
myheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks Maureen and tonyshuman for the support. I would like to think that Luna's stones would have happened no matter what would have been done sooner. But there is always that something in the back of my brain that says, "What if...." Patrick, Zappa, and I will just have to treasure every day we have with her. Luna is a jewel in our eyes.
I did call the vet today to ask about the urine test, and Luna does have an infection going on also. So more meds were picked up to try to get rid of the infection to help make her a bit more comfortable.
Today was not a good "needle-stick" day for me. Luna did her best to be patient with me. I should have never read the link on how to give sub-q's because that was all I could think about today... accidentally poking the needle through the other side of her tented skin. So after, what seemed the bazillionth try, I thought I had the needle in and started the fluids. Luna moved a little to adjust herself, and the needle came out with fuids spurting everywhere! I was so mad at myself and frustrated that I left her go. I couldn't stand the thought of trying to poke that little girl one more time. I was going to start the every-other-day schedule by giving her a break tomorrow, but I guess she had her break today.
So to ease Luna's pain, she ended up with the spoils of my defeat....
A brand new Oxbowtimothy tunnel!!!! :biggrin2:She was so excited, she couldn't wait to start nibbling on it right away. But, of course being the bunny-mom I am, I had to run for the camera to annoy her and Patrick. So she ended up trying to hide behind the tunnel to make me stop with the flashy-thing. Such a smart girlie....!!!
myheart
I did call the vet today to ask about the urine test, and Luna does have an infection going on also. So more meds were picked up to try to get rid of the infection to help make her a bit more comfortable.
Today was not a good "needle-stick" day for me. Luna did her best to be patient with me. I should have never read the link on how to give sub-q's because that was all I could think about today... accidentally poking the needle through the other side of her tented skin. So after, what seemed the bazillionth try, I thought I had the needle in and started the fluids. Luna moved a little to adjust herself, and the needle came out with fuids spurting everywhere! I was so mad at myself and frustrated that I left her go. I couldn't stand the thought of trying to poke that little girl one more time. I was going to start the every-other-day schedule by giving her a break tomorrow, but I guess she had her break today.
So to ease Luna's pain, she ended up with the spoils of my defeat....
A brand new Oxbowtimothy tunnel!!!! :biggrin2:She was so excited, she couldn't wait to start nibbling on it right away. But, of course being the bunny-mom I am, I had to run for the camera to annoy her and Patrick. So she ended up trying to hide behind the tunnel to make me stop with the flashy-thing. Such a smart girlie....!!!
myheart
naturestee
Well-Known Member
Poor thing. At least the reward was worth it! If I remember right, you only need to do fluids every other day now, right?
So what antibiotic is she on?
So what antibiotic is she on?
myheart
Well-Known Member
naturestee wrote:
Yes, the fluids are every-other-day now. I said something to Dr. Travis about her behavior, and he said that it sounds likeI might be getting enough fluids in to help de-toxify her system. I guess we will find out more next Tuesday forher follow-up appointment.
Leave it up to you to ask which antibiotic she is on....! Like I remember things anymore...?! I will have to wait until I get home to look at the bottle to let you know. He said it will be safe to use with the Tramadol and the metacam, but it is given three times a day.
I feel so bad when I pick her up because she makes little sqeakery sounds when I do. The vet said that any movement will cause some discomfort to her because kidney stones hurt. I did ask to see her x-rays because of the discomfort when I pick her up. I just need to see for myself where they are, and to figure out if there is another way to scoop her up without so much discomfort.
myheart
Yes, the fluids are every-other-day now. I said something to Dr. Travis about her behavior, and he said that it sounds likeI might be getting enough fluids in to help de-toxify her system. I guess we will find out more next Tuesday forher follow-up appointment.
Leave it up to you to ask which antibiotic she is on....! Like I remember things anymore...?! I will have to wait until I get home to look at the bottle to let you know. He said it will be safe to use with the Tramadol and the metacam, but it is given three times a day.
I feel so bad when I pick her up because she makes little sqeakery sounds when I do. The vet said that any movement will cause some discomfort to her because kidney stones hurt. I did ask to see her x-rays because of the discomfort when I pick her up. I just need to see for myself where they are, and to figure out if there is another way to scoop her up without so much discomfort.
myheart
Bo B Bunny
Well-Known Member
Awww :hug: I know you're just having such a time. I really don't think you could have done a thing different either!
It amazes me cause she's so adorable, looks so healthy!
It amazes me cause she's so adorable, looks so healthy!
myheart wrote:
spoiled and cute before she was sick..................
hope it doesn't go to her head.
she really looks good.
Thanks Maureen and tonyshuman for the support. I would like to think that Luna's stones would have happened no matter what would have been done sooner. But there is always that something in the back of my brain that says, "What if...." Patrick, Zappa, and I will just have to treasure every day we have with her. Luna is a jewel in our eyes.
I did call the vet today to ask about the urine test, and Luna does have an infection going on also. So more meds were picked up to try to get rid of the infection to help make her a bit more comfortable.
Today was not a good "needle-stick" day for me. Luna did her best to be patient with me. I should have never read the link on how to give sub-q's because that was all I could think about today... accidentally poking the needle through the other side of her tented skin. So after, what seemed the bazillionth try, I thought I had the needle in and started the fluids. Luna moved a little to adjust herself, and the needle came out with fuids spurting everywhere! I was so mad at myself and frustrated that I left her go. I couldn't stand the thought of trying to poke that little girl one more time. I was going to start the every-other-day schedule by giving her a break tomorrow, but I guess she had her break today.
So to ease Luna's pain, she ended up with the spoils of my defeat....
A brand new Oxbowtimothy tunnel!!!! :biggrin2:She was so excited, she couldn't wait to start nibbling on it right away. But, of course being the bunny-mom I am, I had to run for the camera to annoy her and Patrick. So she ended up trying to hide behind the tunnel to make me stop with the flashy-thing. Such a smart girlie....!!!
myheart
spoiled and cute before she was sick..................
hope it doesn't go to her head.
she really looks good.
myheart
Well-Known Member
I know Bo B and Maureen, Luna does look good for being so un-well. Her eyes are still bright and most of the time her personality is gleeming rays of sunshine and excitement. I wish you could see her when it is snack-time or berry-time! Oh the excitement just overflows...!!
I find it so strange lately that I have been calling Luna, Maggie, who was my very first heart-bunny. I was driving home from work today thinking about how I wanted to arrange my time around Luna's meds, when all of a sudden I caught myself saying, "Then around two I have to give Maggie her antibotic...." Freaked me out!!! Maggie has been gone some four years, at least, and all of a sudden she is so on my mind.
I know that Maggie probably died of kidney failure, but at the nice old ripe age of about ten years old. She was my very first bunny and my heart. She could have had other complications for all I know, but I am sure everything ended with her kidneys because she was drinking a lot of water and letting it all out as well. This was all before I joined RO and before I had a vet I could trust.
Has anyone else had this happen? Displacing the current bunny with a past bunny with similar problems? I know I picture Luna in my head as I think about meds and things for her, but it all comes out as, I have to do this for Maggie now. I am just not sure what to think....
myheart
I find it so strange lately that I have been calling Luna, Maggie, who was my very first heart-bunny. I was driving home from work today thinking about how I wanted to arrange my time around Luna's meds, when all of a sudden I caught myself saying, "Then around two I have to give Maggie her antibotic...." Freaked me out!!! Maggie has been gone some four years, at least, and all of a sudden she is so on my mind.
I know that Maggie probably died of kidney failure, but at the nice old ripe age of about ten years old. She was my very first bunny and my heart. She could have had other complications for all I know, but I am sure everything ended with her kidneys because she was drinking a lot of water and letting it all out as well. This was all before I joined RO and before I had a vet I could trust.
Has anyone else had this happen? Displacing the current bunny with a past bunny with similar problems? I know I picture Luna in my head as I think about meds and things for her, but it all comes out as, I have to do this for Maggie now. I am just not sure what to think....
myheart
Sometimes if I have really strong emotions about a pet that is presently sick I will call her/him by another pet's name that was sick in the past.
It doesn't seem related to the specific illness as much as it does with the same emotions being evoked in me again in the present pet.
myheart
Well-Known Member
angieluv wrote:
Maybe that is what I am going through. I am trying so hard to keep Luna happy, at least, that other things are taking a back seat to her schedule. I used to run my day according to what Maggie needed and was totally lost when she passed away. I just didn't have anyone to dump myself into. Now that Luna needs so much care, my schedule is all about her and her comfort. I caught myself saying Maggie's name this morning in reference to giving Luna her meds after I took the cats to the vet. **shakes head** ... thought I was starting to really lose it....
Naturestee, the antibiotic that Luna has is Chloramphenicol. Not sure what this one tastes like, but it is not one of her favorites. She really does make a yukie face for that one.
myheart
Maybe that is what I am going through. I am trying so hard to keep Luna happy, at least, that other things are taking a back seat to her schedule. I used to run my day according to what Maggie needed and was totally lost when she passed away. I just didn't have anyone to dump myself into. Now that Luna needs so much care, my schedule is all about her and her comfort. I caught myself saying Maggie's name this morning in reference to giving Luna her meds after I took the cats to the vet. **shakes head** ... thought I was starting to really lose it....
Naturestee, the antibiotic that Luna has is Chloramphenicol. Not sure what this one tastes like, but it is not one of her favorites. She really does make a yukie face for that one.
myheart
naturestee
Well-Known Member
That's a good antibiotic. As long as it's not something weak like Baytril or sulfa drugs, I'd have questioned those.
And Janet, I already know you've lost it.
And Janet, I already know you've lost it.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I'm so glad to hear she's bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Her excitement is how you know you're taking good care of her. :hugsquish:
myheart
Well-Known Member
tonyshuman wrote:
Along that line of thought....
Guess who was the Binky Queen this morning!!!!!
My little Luna Belle was feeling extra happy this morning, although I am not sure why. These weren't just little head-binkies or anything.... These were full-out-running-throwing-the-whole-body-into-it type of binkies!!! And not just one running binky, but at least two that I saw. I even had to do a double-take to make sure it wasn't Zappa who was showing off. Nope, it was My Luna Belle!!!
Luna is so amazing!!! There is a lesson to be learned from her.... :rabbithop:bunnydance:
myheart
Along that line of thought....
Guess who was the Binky Queen this morning!!!!!
My little Luna Belle was feeling extra happy this morning, although I am not sure why. These weren't just little head-binkies or anything.... These were full-out-running-throwing-the-whole-body-into-it type of binkies!!! And not just one running binky, but at least two that I saw. I even had to do a double-take to make sure it wasn't Zappa who was showing off. Nope, it was My Luna Belle!!!
Luna is so amazing!!! There is a lesson to be learned from her.... :rabbithop:bunnydance:
myheart
naturestee
Well-Known Member
Yay! Maybe she's feeling better with the antibiotics?
myheart
Well-Known Member
naturestee wrote:
I know it's probably the antibiotics and the pain meds, but one could always hope some of the stones could be clearing out with all of the TLC.
What do you think, Naturestee, about what tonyshuman suggested with this having become the result of Luna's malnourished state. The more I think about it the more it makes sense.
Luna was starved of all the nutrients she really needed, including calcium. She finally felt better with your care and the dentals. Then I get my hands on her and spoil the heck out of her with treats on lots of veggies she may not have had before. Her system is overloaded with calcium and isn't sure what to do with it. I know that Luna was off after her August dental already, which could have really been the start of the stones. So, from late March to, at least August, she was okay, but with calcium started to build. From August to January, the stones went undiagnosed because the kidneys still were doing their job. The only thing was the stasis that she went through because she didn't feel well as the only indicator that something was wrong with her. Does that all sound about right aside from any genetic possibility?
I know I shouldn't dwell on it, but I think Luna's experience could be a learning tool for others who take in bunnies who were not treated well. This could turn into a precautionary instance for bun owners not to overdo it with bunners who had it tough for the better part of their lives. Like, if a rabbit were mistreated through the age of five-ish, be careful with foods because their systems may not be functioning "normally" and unable to rid wastes as needed for senior health.
Just thoughts....
myheart
I know it's probably the antibiotics and the pain meds, but one could always hope some of the stones could be clearing out with all of the TLC.
What do you think, Naturestee, about what tonyshuman suggested with this having become the result of Luna's malnourished state. The more I think about it the more it makes sense.
Luna was starved of all the nutrients she really needed, including calcium. She finally felt better with your care and the dentals. Then I get my hands on her and spoil the heck out of her with treats on lots of veggies she may not have had before. Her system is overloaded with calcium and isn't sure what to do with it. I know that Luna was off after her August dental already, which could have really been the start of the stones. So, from late March to, at least August, she was okay, but with calcium started to build. From August to January, the stones went undiagnosed because the kidneys still were doing their job. The only thing was the stasis that she went through because she didn't feel well as the only indicator that something was wrong with her. Does that all sound about right aside from any genetic possibility?
I know I shouldn't dwell on it, but I think Luna's experience could be a learning tool for others who take in bunnies who were not treated well. This could turn into a precautionary instance for bun owners not to overdo it with bunners who had it tough for the better part of their lives. Like, if a rabbit were mistreated through the age of five-ish, be careful with foods because their systems may not be functioning "normally" and unable to rid wastes as needed for senior health.
Just thoughts....
myheart
Amy27
Task Force
How are things going with Luna? I am happy she was doing lots of binkies for you the other day. I am always thinking of both of you.
I don't know the answers to your previous post but I wanted to say I don't think you are dwelling on anything. I sounds like you are just trying to find the cause so you can figure out how better to handle this and what to do. It does make me wonder though even if her body couldn't handle the calcium I wonder what makes one rabbit store the calcium in the bladder and others in the kidneys.
I don't know the answers to your previous post but I wanted to say I don't think you are dwelling on anything. I sounds like you are just trying to find the cause so you can figure out how better to handle this and what to do. It does make me wonder though even if her body couldn't handle the calcium I wonder what makes one rabbit store the calcium in the bladder and others in the kidneys.
kherrmann3
Well-Known Member
Amy27 wrote:
In the end, blame genetics.
I would guess genetics. It's the same with people. Will and I eat almost the same foods, but he gets kidney stones. Well, he used to be more prone to them, but since I made him cut out foods rich in calcium, he's been fine.
In the end, blame genetics.
