Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
Found it thanks.
R.I.P. 30 UVic Bunnies
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Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
Seems like there was another rabbit death today when this same woman sicced her dog on a group of rabbits. The dog apparently killed one which was a pet of the sanctuary operator. Rumour has it the wildlife people will be investigating as its against the law for dogs to harass (and kill) wildlife. This has got to end.
Purple Mountain Rabbitry
Well-Known Member
hopefully the wildlife officials will get her to stop. knock on wood and praying. can you look up wildlife laws and see? it would be very interesting to know. maybe this could be the loop hole to getting the rabbits back. you know if it is against the law for dogs to harrass them then maybe the wildlife people can get you on the land to get the rabbits out of danger.
RIP little bunny binky free at the rainbow bridge
RIP little bunny binky free at the rainbow bridge
Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
First of all and I may have mentioned this before. Rabbits were deemed wildlife by the Ministry of Environment so they could be killed as pests. The first massacre cannot be upheld legally. It is illegal to have wildlife harassed or killed by roaming dogs. This is why they are investigating it now.
nabhraj
Member
If I don't get a reply from the law society by tomorrow I will write back. They promised a formal acknowledgment of the complaint.
Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
I wrote them on Wednesday and never received any acknowledgement. Nothing from anyone at the SPCA either.
nabhraj
Member
The society says they expect lawyers to behave better than normal people even outside of their profession. I personally expect everybody to rise above the law and behave ethically and with integrity. And lawyers should give the example.
Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
I guess you haven't dealt with too many lawyers have you?? Integrity?
Who once said those famous words "kill all the lawyers!"
All kidding aside this person is obviously deranged. One of our group knows someone who worked or articled in her office and claims she is crazy. After her actions this week its fairly obvious. Sadly it seems like nothing is really being done about this slaughter and it will probably continue.
Who once said those famous words "kill all the lawyers!"
All kidding aside this person is obviously deranged. One of our group knows someone who worked or articled in her office and claims she is crazy. After her actions this week its fairly obvious. Sadly it seems like nothing is really being done about this slaughter and it will probably continue.
Purple Mountain Rabbitry
Well-Known Member
It should be a loop hole. if "It is illegal to have wildlife harassed or killed by roaming dogs" then maybe you can use it as a loophole to get the rabbits back.you know the dog harrassing the wildlife so the wildlife must be removed to get them out of harms way(the harassing dog is the harm).I have 3 generations of cops in my family I know how to turn laws around and figure out loopholes. Lawyers are not easy to deal with and they are not a good example of anything. 96% of what comes out of a lawyers mouth is BS. At least thats what my grandpa tells me. he was a cop for 29 years like his father before him and his father before him. lol.
I am hoping and praying that this investigation turns in the rabbits favor and they can be recaptured
I am hoping and praying that this investigation turns in the rabbits favor and they can be recaptured
nabhraj
Member
I hope so too. Good night for now.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Most lawyers are upstanding people and they do have to be held to a stricter code of ethics to be members of the Bar. They take an oath when being admitted to the Bar that requires them to uphold certain ethical guidelines. Many people dislike lawyers because they often have to represent people who did wrong things, but that is part of their job, and if there was nobody there to stand up for people who have made bad decisions and need help, the smallest mistake could ruin a person's life. Coming from a family of lawyers, it is unfair to classify all lawyers as bad people. Some lawyers do bad things, just like some doctors do bad things, but most of what most lawyers do helps people and helps justice to be served.
It was clear to me from the first instance (the bunnies that were killed by guns) that this woman is not the ethical pillar of her community that a lawyer should be. This second action with the dog makes it beyond clear that she has committed a crime and should not only be disbarred but have some criminal charges brought against her.
It was clear to me from the first instance (the bunnies that were killed by guns) that this woman is not the ethical pillar of her community that a lawyer should be. This second action with the dog makes it beyond clear that she has committed a crime and should not only be disbarred but have some criminal charges brought against her.
Facebook Group against the actions of the woman who killed the rescue centre's escaped rabbits:-
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=166549806691602
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=166549806691602
ladysown
Well-Known Member
they are vermin on her property. Sorry...but the lady raises horses...rabbits dig holes...ergo to her they are a danger to her hobby/livelihood. So it behooves her to have them removed as soon as possible. DO NOT blame her (except for the siccing the dog on them) for taking action against these rabbit. Blame the rescue for not taking proper action to secure the animals.
Could things have been handled better by all parties concerned? yes. But don't be tarring a lady for protecting her land and her livestock.
Could things have been handled better by all parties concerned? yes. But don't be tarring a lady for protecting her land and her livestock.
Pipp
Well-Known Member
I don't think you're going to win too many friends here if you consider rabbits 'vermin'. You've certainly lost my vote.
To answer your question in your introduction, we are primarily a rabbit health and welfare-oriented forum, so killing them doesn't exactly fit our mandate.
The issue in this case is the alternatives available and the time frame. There is some question as to the how hard she tried to facilitate removing them alive, and exactly how long they were on the property -- the rescuers say hours, she says days. Neither are long enough to do damage. (Rabbits don't randomly burrow in the middle of a field).
And yes, both parties can equally share blame, but actions fueled by ego and testosterone that cost innocent lives are not acceptable from other side.
The bottom line is this woman would not allow the rescuers on the property to retrieve the rabbits and as far as I know, she still hasn't. This boils down to killing the rabbits over some personal 'tiff', this is not concern for her horses.
sas :grumpy:
To answer your question in your introduction, we are primarily a rabbit health and welfare-oriented forum, so killing them doesn't exactly fit our mandate.
The issue in this case is the alternatives available and the time frame. There is some question as to the how hard she tried to facilitate removing them alive, and exactly how long they were on the property -- the rescuers say hours, she says days. Neither are long enough to do damage. (Rabbits don't randomly burrow in the middle of a field).
And yes, both parties can equally share blame, but actions fueled by ego and testosterone that cost innocent lives are not acceptable from other side.
The bottom line is this woman would not allow the rescuers on the property to retrieve the rabbits and as far as I know, she still hasn't. This boils down to killing the rabbits over some personal 'tiff', this is not concern for her horses.
sas :grumpy:
Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
If she was so concerned about the welfare of her horses then why has she refused to allow rescuers on her property to retrieve the remaining rabbits? Is she just waiting for them to dig holes to prove a point?
ladysown
Well-Known Member
i used the terminology vermin to describe what nuisance wildlife are...just like rats and mice and coyotes and deer.
not saying there isn't fault on both sides. BUT she did call and say your rabbits are here, remove them. They said "give us a few days". She didn't want that, she wanted them gone immediately. AND quite frankly I don't blame her. I'd want them gone immediately as well...before they dug themselves in.
Mind...if they were still there after a few days I'd accept any help I could get... BUT there might be mitigating circumstances...such as AVID animal rights activists that you don't want on your property under any circumstances.
Once you've been hit by AR people, you don't want to be hit again. THEY AREN'T NICE and they most certainly don't play fair. Notice how everyone is taking the rescues side and villifying the horse neighbour?
is there continuing fault on both sides? yes there is.
but nuisance wildlife IS vermin...even if it is cute and cuddly as well.
Siccing the dog on rabbits that are on someone else's property SHOULD be a punishable offense. But are they punished? not usually...ask the countless numbers of rabbits that are killed because a dog off leash goes after a pet bunny on a lawn, or breaks into the neighbours rabbitry?
Punished...nope. AND often is shrugged off as "dogs will be dogs".
not saying there isn't fault on both sides. BUT she did call and say your rabbits are here, remove them. They said "give us a few days". She didn't want that, she wanted them gone immediately. AND quite frankly I don't blame her. I'd want them gone immediately as well...before they dug themselves in.
Mind...if they were still there after a few days I'd accept any help I could get... BUT there might be mitigating circumstances...such as AVID animal rights activists that you don't want on your property under any circumstances.
Once you've been hit by AR people, you don't want to be hit again. THEY AREN'T NICE and they most certainly don't play fair. Notice how everyone is taking the rescues side and villifying the horse neighbour?
is there continuing fault on both sides? yes there is.
but nuisance wildlife IS vermin...even if it is cute and cuddly as well.
Siccing the dog on rabbits that are on someone else's property SHOULD be a punishable offense. But are they punished? not usually...ask the countless numbers of rabbits that are killed because a dog off leash goes after a pet bunny on a lawn, or breaks into the neighbours rabbitry?
Punished...nope. AND often is shrugged off as "dogs will be dogs".
Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
You have a valid point but I do not think the rescuers were AR types. From what I understand it was the volunteer contingent that wanted to get the rabbits.
ladysown
Well-Known Member
"From what I understand it was the volunteer contingent that wanted to get the rabbits." but that's your conjecture right? that's talking like someone who has never had to deal with animal rights people. WHO...even if you are doing everything right (by established animal husbandry standards) have the mental philosopy of "how dare you"!!!! do it differently than what "I SAY" is right.
I've learned to view most rescue people with cautious eyes.
Many are AR types...even mildly.
And messing with them is just asking for trouble.
She (as a lawyer) might well have that same viewpoint. Be cautious, very very cautious. AND DO NOT let them onto your land if you have any reason to be suspicious of them.
I've learned to view most rescue people with cautious eyes.
Many are AR types...even mildly.
And messing with them is just asking for trouble.
She (as a lawyer) might well have that same viewpoint. Be cautious, very very cautious. AND DO NOT let them onto your land if you have any reason to be suspicious of them.
Bill Jesse
Well-Known Member
Its not conjecture. I know the people who were involved and I am an animal rescuer, having saved many of the university rabbits myself. AR me? Sorry, not even mildly.
ladysown
Well-Known Member
You are upset because someone chose to remove animals from their property. That they didn't allow animal rescue people on to their property AFTER the animal rescue people (as reported in the paper in the first account I read of this) waffled as to when they would come. That they did not come over IMMEDIATELY was the issue.
An animal of mine on property that didn't belong to me...I would have been over IMMEDIATELY to retrieve said animals. Not hours later, not days later, Immediately. That didn't happen. This landowner exercised her rights to protect her property. The rescuers were in the wrong. Be very clear on that.
yes, it's sad, it's annoying that they weren't given a second chance to remedy the situation. I agree with you there. (see...agreement).
But villifying the landowner for taking lawful legal action to protect her property...I am not okay with that.
Just like farmers have the right to shoot stray dogs, this lady has the right to trap, kill or otherwise remove unwanted stray animals from her property. Rabbits are stray animals and she chose to remove them from her property her own way.
WOULD I Have preferred that she catch them and say here... take them back? Yeah, sure. But coming from a farming background I understand her saying Okay...I called you, you didn't come over immediately, therefore I took care of the problem. That's what farmers do. EVEN IF her primary job is a lawyer, she has land, she has horses....that makes her a farmer. And farmers do have the right to remove a feral, invasive species from their property.
The fact that there are still rabbits on her property shows just how invasive they can be. Female rabbis dig very fast and build tunnels in the ground like you wouldn't believe.
I used to put my female rabbits out on the grass...but the speed at which they dig holes was enough for me to say...NOPE... no more girls out on the grass. In an hour on the grass they'd have 3-8 inch deep holes dug. Not fun tripping in those, or having to fill them in.
An animal of mine on property that didn't belong to me...I would have been over IMMEDIATELY to retrieve said animals. Not hours later, not days later, Immediately. That didn't happen. This landowner exercised her rights to protect her property. The rescuers were in the wrong. Be very clear on that.
yes, it's sad, it's annoying that they weren't given a second chance to remedy the situation. I agree with you there. (see...agreement).
But villifying the landowner for taking lawful legal action to protect her property...I am not okay with that.
Just like farmers have the right to shoot stray dogs, this lady has the right to trap, kill or otherwise remove unwanted stray animals from her property. Rabbits are stray animals and she chose to remove them from her property her own way.
WOULD I Have preferred that she catch them and say here... take them back? Yeah, sure. But coming from a farming background I understand her saying Okay...I called you, you didn't come over immediately, therefore I took care of the problem. That's what farmers do. EVEN IF her primary job is a lawyer, she has land, she has horses....that makes her a farmer. And farmers do have the right to remove a feral, invasive species from their property.
The fact that there are still rabbits on her property shows just how invasive they can be. Female rabbis dig very fast and build tunnels in the ground like you wouldn't believe.
I used to put my female rabbits out on the grass...but the speed at which they dig holes was enough for me to say...NOPE... no more girls out on the grass. In an hour on the grass they'd have 3-8 inch deep holes dug. Not fun tripping in those, or having to fill them in.
