Worried about Scone...

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MikeScone

Mike - Camera Corner Mod
Joined
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Location
Harford, New York, USA
I'm becoming quite concerned about Scone. He hasn't been eating enough - he is eating, but not a lot, and irregularly.

Basics: Scone's a mini-rex male, not neutered. He's not young any more - he'll be seven in February - but that's not old, either (about my age in human years, actually). His health has been generally good over the years, with an annual bout of stasis during his peak shed around Labor Day plus or minus a few weeks.

This year I took him in to the Cornell clinic last month and they kept him over night and then brought him back in two weeks later for follow-up bloodwork (his kidney enzymes were borderline the first time, but they thought it might be due to his not drinking). Recapping the results of the clinic visits over the last few weeks, they said his teeth were fine (I specifically asked them to check for spurs, but he's never had tooth problems in the past), there were no abnormalities in his blood work on the recheck, and they didn't find any obstructions or lumps anywhere.

Last night when I came home he'd eaten only a little of his breakfast salad and hardly any pellets. He had eaten some hay, and he is drinking. Oddly, however, he will eat - and seems quite hungry - when I hand feed him, especially parsley and kale. Both last night and this morning he wasn't interested in the food on his plate, but when I offered him a stalk of parsley he ran to get it and nosed at me for more as he finished each stalk. He ate the usual amount of parsley this morning before he was full and hopped away. His poops have been very small and hard - there's not much in his litter box, although he has been leaving small droppings around wherever he was. I can hear gurgling or squeaking noises when he eats or drinks (kind of like the sound a kettle makes just before it whistles).

Just to add interest, he still loves to chew on paper and cardboard. It drives me crazy to watch him ignore good food to hop over to a tip-in card or some shredded junk mail and nibble with great enthusiasm.

His behavior has been "off", too. He hasn't jumped up on my bed for days, and he's started sitting in corners instead of on his chair or the sofa. He's even started sitting in a cardboard box I put out in the living room for him six years ago - in the past, he's just used it as a tunnel or a chew toy, but in the last few days he's started to spend time just sitting in it. Last night he would only sit or lie down against the front door - maybe the cold air leaking under it felt good? I had to carry him into the bedroom, and this morning he wouldn't leave the bedroom. I could entice him with a bit of kale right up to the threshold, and then he ran back under my bed.

He'll come when I call, and put his head down for pets. As long as I pet his head and ears he'll lie still, but if I start to stroke past his shoulders he runs away.

I was wondering about joint pain, maybe, which would explain his relative immobility (although he can still run very fast and hops around the room without obvious signs of pain). Could his sensitivity to being stroked past his shoulders indicate some skin problems? What could hiding in corners and boxes mean? I suppose there could be some changes due to age, but this seems extreme. Any ideas?

I hate to put him through another vet visit so soon, especially as he's eating (if only a little), but I really think we need to get to the bottom of this. If he's not showing any improvement tonight when I get home I'll call Cornell, but I'm looking for suggestions.
 
It sounds like he has gas and is beginning to go into stasis ; the GI tummy sounds indicate an upset. the hiding and eating only specific food are another sign of this; the eating and chewing of carboard is also a symptom of this


You need to get plain simethicone liquid which comes in the form of baby (infant ) gas drops under the names of Mylicon or GasX or a generic brand . read the back of the package to make sure that there is no other active ingredient other than simethicone. You can buy this at a pharmacy or Walmart ...almost anywhere. This stuff is a wonder drug for gas problems in rabbits and can be gven as a 1cc dose orally in a syringe . A little while after you give it you can gently massage his tummy (gently) to try to get the gas moving down or else encourage him to run about and exercise so that he can move the gas down on his own. If he seems very uncomfortable when he is hiding out you can also make fill a sock with rice, heat in the microwave a minute or so or until it is warm but not hot (heat should be evenly distributed) and place it next to him so that he has the option to either lay snuggled next to it or move away. If he does not seem more comfortable after the first dose you can repeat a 1cc dose 2 more times about an hour apart.
You also may need to get some pedialyte or a generic electrolyte drinkfor infants . If he has not been drinking much he is probably dehydrated. The unflavored version is the best but since I want my rabbits to drink it without a struggle i usually get a flavor. You can also syringe him pedialyte . I usually give mine as much as they will take.

if you have the equipment and know how to do subqutaneous fluids on a rabbit you could also do this. Hydration is very important in stasis.
you can also get a fresh pineapple and squeeze the juice from it. The juice supposedly breaks down and helps move through fur and/or any other other material that is just sitting there accumulating in the GI tract.
Pineapple juice is thought by some to be useless but both Randy and myself have used it successfully in these situations.

it is high in sugar so you might want to give a few ccs every 6 hrs or so or else mix it with water or pedialyte or dilute it a bit. If a rabbit had any loose poops you wold not use it .

if he reaches a point in which he is not eating you can get a can of pure unseasoned pumpkin and syringe this. Pumpkin has a lot of fiber and is easy to syringe because of its consistency . The fact that your rabbit is accepting some greens now is great ..make sure that they are wet when you feed them

last but not least you can give a dose daily of a probiotic called benebac which can be purchased in small individual tubes at petco or petsmart or in powder form usually sold in either the dog or cat sections. You can also use a probiotic for horses called probios which is sold at farm stores like tractor supply or farm/fleet.

if you can take a very active approach to this you may be able to jumpstart his system yourself and not even end up at the vet

let us know .
 
It sounds like he has gas and is beginning to go into stasis ; the GI tummy sounds indicate an upset. the hiding and eating only specific food are another sign of this; the eating and chewing of carboard is also a symptom of this
Good thought - I'd considered gas, too, and had given him simethecone, but no luck.

I took Scone into the Cornell clinic again today - I called the vet, and she said to bring him in right away. They took x-rays and more blood, and at last, finally found something. From the report they gave me:
"Radiographs were taken, which revealed bridging spondylosis of the vertebral column (T-13-L5). This is a normal change in older rabbits, although it can be a source of pain in this species. ...
"Scone's physical examination and radiographs did not suggest a significant gastric stasis requiring supportive treatment. At this point we will treat Scone for possible pain due to bridging spondylosis, which can lead to decreased appetite and lethargy. Adequan, a joint supplement, has been an effective treatment for reducing pain in these rabbits."​
I was given a bunch of syringes and some of the Adequan, and I have to give Scone a shot every three days for the next three weeks, then every two weeks afterward if it seemed to help.

They're waiting for the results of his blood work to make sure there isn't something else, but if not, they're going to give me some metacam to give him for the pain tomorrow. That makes sense, since he did so much better after his first visit three weeks ago when they gave him metacam, and went downhill after it wore off.

They also said they saw some mineralization in his kidney, but didn't think it was severe enough to worry about at the moment - if he doesn't improve with the Adequan and Metacam, they'll consider giving him an ultrasound. The vet said she saw some bright spots in his GI tract which she said could (if unlikely) be an indication he'd eaten some lead - but since my house is too new to have lead paint, I'm not sure where he could possibly have found that. If he doesn't improve, they'll test for lead, but she thought it was very unlikely.

I'm hopeful that maybe we've found the problem. Since Scone is exactly my age in human years, and my joints hurt, I don't find it a bit unreasonable that his should. Apparently the Adequan performs the same function as the glucosamine I take, and that helps me a lot.

Paws crossed, we'll know in a week or so.
 
Aw, poor Scone. I am glad they found the source of the problem. I hope that is it and nothing more major. Love you, Scone. Feel better!!


 
Pain can really affect their appetite. I never thought of the pain being related to anything other than gas but he most likely was not moving about or eating well due to his back pain.
I wish that i could take my rabbits to Cornell university
sounds like excellent vets

Please let us know how the poor guy is doing ....
 
Hi Mike,

I'm sorry to hear about Scone...about the spondylosis thing...my Jack was diagnosed with it not long ago,he can no longer hop now...it's a hard thing and very heart breaking indeed.

I hope Scone will be ok
 
I didn't comment yesterday because Maureen answered it very well. It did sound like gas, probably from not eating due to pain. The spondylosis is more common in older rabbits, and although it may eventually affect his mobility, it seems that you have caught it early. The Adequan is glucosamine which may help lubricate the joints more. There is also a chondroitin product that they can give to help in this way.

I guess Scone's just going to have to slow down a bit, but I know he'll be very happy. This disease can be difficult to watch, so I send you good wishes. He may move a bit differently, but he'll still be your Scone.

Just wanted to add that you should make sure he's eating and drinking well while on the Metacam. It can cause stomach damage if there's no food in there, and kidney damage if he's dehydrated.
 
tonyshuman wrote:
Just wanted to add that you should make sure he's eating and drinking well while on the Metacam. It can cause stomach damage if there's no food in there, and kidney damage if he's dehydrated.
Odd you should say that. The vet called back this morning and said that the blood work showed kidney enzymes even higher than they had been when I first brought him in three weeks ago. She wouldn't put him on Metacam or any other NSAID for fear of kidney damage. I've been given sub-q fluids to administer twice a day for the next week, and made an appointment to bring Scone in next Thursday for an ultrasound and blood re-test.

The vet said that 60cc wasn't much to push sub-q, but it looked to me like a 55 gallon drum compared to Scone's size. I've never done this before, and I don't know if Scone or I are going to hate this next week more.

I guess I can add administering subcutaneous fluids to the list of required skills for bunny parents, after soldering.
 
this video may or may not help

the bun in the video is really well-behaved ... :)



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdf-M9miFzE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdf-M9miFzE[/ame]
 
MikeScone wrote:
tonyshuman wrote:
Just wanted to add that you should make sure he's eating and drinking well while on the Metacam. It can cause stomach damage if there's no food in there, and kidney damage if he's dehydrated.
Odd you should say that. The vet called back this morning and said that the blood work showed kidney enzymes even higher than they had been when I first brought him in three weeks ago. She wouldn't put him on Metacam or any other NSAID for fear of kidney damage. I've been given sub-q fluids to administer twice a day for the next week, and made an appointment to bring Scone in next Thursday for an ultrasound and blood re-test.

The vet said that 60cc wasn't much to push sub-q, but it looked to me like a 55 gallon drum compared to Scone's size. I've never done this before, and I don't know if Scone or I are going to hate this next week more.

I guess I can add administering subcutaneous fluids to the list of required skills for bunny parents, after soldering.

I know where you are at Mike.... It really is amazing what you are capable of when love is the main factor. I had never given sub-q's before in my life, and I ended up doing it for Luna for about six months.

Just take your time and a lot of deep breathes to keep calm. You don't want Scone to sense you anxiety about sticking him. One tip that helped me was to make sure that the point of the needle is on the bottom. It really does make it easier for the needle to go in. Also remember that you are doing it for Scone, not to him. That made difference to me to be in the right frame of mind. I also told Luna how much I loved her every time I stuck her with the needle.

There will be good sticks and bad sticks... Just don't let the bad ones shake you up, and try again a little later. If you need help or encouragement, make a post. The people on RO are amazing when it comes to that. They all helped me so much get through the bad sticks, and cheered with me for the strings of good needle-sticks.

Sending good vibes that all of your stick are one-time only and complete amounts. :pray:

myheart
 
I am sorry to hear that Scone isn't feeling well. I hope he does better with the sub-q fluids and pain meds (once they figure out which ones work). Head pets to Scone!

Also, I told myheart this with the sub-q fluids: make sure the bevel of the needle is up. When holding the needle in front of your face (pointy end up) the "hole" should be facing your face. Make sure that surface is up, and exhale as you insert the needle. (I'm in a phlebotomy class, and they tell us to do that every time (the exhaling part)). It works fairly well. Good luck (and steady hands) to you!
 
This is proving harder than I thought it would be. I spent much of yesterday evening trying to get the sub-q needle in, and finally gave up. I'll have to try again today. I got the Scone-lying-down and tenting-skin parts just fine, but the minute Scone felt the needle he was off like a shot. The one time I think I got the needle in at all, as soon as I pushed on the syringe he jumped, and was off again.

I'll keep trying.
I've looked at the various you tube videos on administering sub-q fluids and they make it look so easy. I've come to the conclusion that (a) all of the presenters have at least three hands (I counted); and (b) all of the cats and rabbits are sedated or drunk.

I'm going to give the bunny burrito idea a try - the vet said to just hold Scone in my lap, but I haven't been able to do that in the last seven years just to pet him, so why should it work while I'm sticking him with needes? He'll sit in my lap to eat carrots if I hold them, but then we'd be up to five hands...

His first Adequan shot is due tomorrow. It's a much smaller needle and a very small amount of liquid, so I'm really hoping I can get that done before he notices.
 

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