(RIP) UPDATE: Luna has stones in both kidneys

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Amy27 wrote:
How are you and Luna doing? Anything new?I am praying for you guys.
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I was also catching up on your thread about Chase.... it is good to hear that she is feeling a bit better. :DGood luck with test results and getting a second opinion. I was surprised they didn't test the stone for composition. :?Prayers and hugs to you and Chase also. :hug: Keep positive thoughts....

Anyhow, nothing new with Luna at this time. She will be going in on February 4th for her dental. Prior to the dental, the vet is going to do a blood panel to make sure kidney functions are good, and take another xray. I am bringing along all of Randy's information to see if the vet concures with all of the tests. Not sure what to do if that becomes a dead end, because I already know that all I am able to really do is change her diet and pray for her good health. I am going to find out if he has the Tramadol available for any emergency that comes up for Luna. A week of stasis was not only hard on her, but I was just a wreck trying to guess what was wrong and how much more we could both take. Luna is a fighter, I will say that for her. :p

I am so praying that he will find the stones have diminished especially with the way Luna has been acting of late. She has been just crazy with her running around and being naughty. Any bun who acts like that can't be sick!!! :pIt just makes me smile and tear-up a bit to think of her silliness of late. :D

myheart
 
I was surprised they didnt' check Chase's stone also. The vet said there was no need because they checked the last one but I would rather know then assume it is the same. I am taking the stone to the vet when I get a second opinion to see if she wants to check it.

It is so hard when you don't know what to do or what is wrong. I am also going to ask my vet about giving me some meds to take home so that if something goes wrong on the weekend I can give them. Since both times Chase has gotten sick on a weekend and ER vet is $400. I hope she gives you the Tramadol. Does your vet have an emergency line you can call after hours and talk to a vet and atleast tell them what is going on to see what they say? Mine does that till 10 pm but since I never have the meds it doesn't help much. But if they give you the meds you could call in and verify by her symptoms it would be ok to give until she can be seen.

I really hope you get some good news at her appointment. The waiting game has to be so hard. Keep me up to date.
 
Amy27, the vet that Luna goes to inSheboygandoes not have an after-hours emergency line. But the vet here in town, Manitowoc, does. They tried to direct emergency calls to Green Bay or Appleton, but I don't think that went over very well because in a real emergency, other locations would be a forty-five minute drive minimum. So now they will at least take the after-hour calls, determine if it is a real emergency, or just give tips on household products that could tied the animal over until morning. Getting a bunny-savvy vet would be up in the air though....

myheart
 
I have been thinking about you and Luna. Her appt is not far off. Make sure you update when you get back. I will be thinking about you guys on the 4th hoping for some good news.
 
Thanks for asking about Luna. I don't know if/when Myheart will have time to update, but she let me know today that Luna appeared to be passing another stone this weekend. She will still be going for testing on the 4th but if she's not feeling better yet she will not be getting her regularly scheduled dental work done.

I'm trying to remind myself (and Myheart!) that it's better out than in.
 
Thanks Naturestee for filling in on the reply for Amy.

Luna is having another little bout of stasis. I think it might be another stone passingas I found more bloody urine in Patrick's cage. I am only able to assume it is her urine because I didn't find it until I came home from work around noon on Saturday.

I thinkLuna feels a little bit better today, but she is still not eating like she should be. She is still not showing the excitement over her snacks like she had been these past few weeks. We have been trying the Crittical Care to make sure something is in her tummy, but she really has no interest in that. So, I am going to say that she is eating just enough timothy hay to get by, but not enough to feel like herself yet.

Luna's appointment is this Wednesday, although I am waiting for her vet to call me so I could keep him posted on her stasis andpotentially not having her dental done until she is eating as usual. I really do want to get that Tramadol for the next time this happens.

I will post more tomorrow evening after we are home and settled in.

myheart
 
Thanks Jan. I hope all of this passes quickly also. Luna has her first Gotchya Day to celebrate at the end of March, and we need to have her happy and healthy to enjoy her day.

I have noticed that Luna's not feeling well really does affect the entire trio. Patrick and Zappa both seem a bit more quiet also. I do hope Luna comes out of this so we will all be able to breathe a bit easier, even if it will only be another few weeks for another stone to pass.

myheart
 
Perhaps ask Dr. Travis if Tramadol is likely to cause stomach ulcers with regular use? If Luna needs it for several months? \\ Everybody is sending healing vibes for Luna and her snugglebuns, and YOU as their Extra-Caring V.I.Mom.:hearts:
 
Actually I was going to ask Dr. Travis about a different pain drug. I called my vet here in Manitowoc about their stock of elixer Tamadol, of which they have none in stock. Dr. Gobal did mention a different drug similar to the one that Randy mentioned, Buprenex. I don't have the name of the mentioned drug in front of me right now, but I bet it is same thing. She said that it is actually an injectable pain killer, but if placed under the tongue or in the cheek area, it will work just as well. If the drug goes straight into the mouth and down into the tummy, the gastric juices stop the drug's effectiveness.

Dr. Gobalonly warned about the Tramadol because it could actually cause stasis, which Luna does not need to have compounded. She also mentioned that Dr. Bixler, same clinic as Dr. Travis,usually uses this drug also for her bunny clients.

btw... he didn't get back to me today, which is unfortunate because I know he doesn't like to do consults on his surgery day. Either the message was not delivered, or he was too busy. I will try him on my break-time, or have to request to see him prior to anything being done with her.

myheart
 
I did get in touch with Dr. Travis on my break. He said that he has no problem with running blood work and the x-ray prior to making any safety decisions about the dental. I also asked about the different pain-killing drug, although I couldn't remember the name, and he is willing to compare the effecteness of each against the risks.

So wish us luck for tomorrow and that more stones are coming out.

myheart
 
I'll be so anxious to hear about her blood panel on Friday.

You know what Randy says is very true..... she was fine a few months ago. Now, I have a question and maybe Randy could give his opinion as well.

Luna was kinda "plump" when she first came to RO as a rescue..... she lost a good bit of weight and is on a healthy diet -

COULD it be that when she was losing weight her body just couldn't process out all the bad stuff?

I have no clue how these things work but it just seems to me like her system went through some big changes in the past year or so, right?


 
Bo B, Naturestee would have to tell you about Luna's condition when she was taken into her foster care. I know that much of Luna's under-weight problems were caused by dental issues. By the time I took her in, she looked really good. Naturestee helped Luna with her weight and her confidence.

Unfortunately, I gave Luna too many treats. It was a gradual thing because she didn't know about them until she saw Patrick begging for them. After talking with the vet about Patrick's small poo's, I had to eliminate as much carbohydrate junk as possible. As difficult as it was to do, things returned to normal with output. Patrick is a carbo-junkie though... He still begs for his treats at about he same time, but now I just pet him and tell him how handsome he is.

Anyhow, Luna ended up topping out on the Dutch weigh-scale, so eliminating the carbs was a good move for her also. Her loss of weight was very gradual up to the point of her last stasis a few weeks back.

I am not sure, but if she is genetically predisposed to having stones without any sort of knowledge of this, I think it could happen to any-bun in the same situation. Patch and Zappa have no problem, that I know of, from eating kale and parsely. According to one of the links posted (I think by TreasuredFriend) that calcium content of veggies is done as a dry weight, not the fresh hydrated veggie. Without some calcuim, their bodies could also take calcium from their bones. Sometimes I think you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't....

myheart
 
I'd have Dr. Travis make the pain med decision. Buprenex is a very strong drug and might make Luna too loopy, although that might be a good thing with those kidney stones. It is also controlled more because it is a very strongopiate, whereas Tramadol is an opiate but not to the point where they have to worry about people selling it on the streets. Gut slowdown from Tramadol should be minimal if any, also Luna has had it before (from her spay) and responds well to it.

I'm pretty sure Buprenex is what Dr. Bixler gave Dora after she had that nasty fall/head trauma. Talk about a magic carpet ride! Also, it's the only thing she ever tried to spit out of her mouth. Must taste awful, and this is a rabbit who sucked down antibiotics like milk.

If Randy is around, hopefully he'll put his 2 cents in. Maybe you could try the Buprenex and if it makes her too loopy (as in can't function, won't eat much, etc.) then go down to the Tramadol.

Also, I wonder if they could write a prescription that you could fill at a regular pharmacy as needed? That way you could have liquidized Tramadol on demand.
 
She was underweight at first? I couldn't remember which it was. I know she was SO much healthier after such a short time. Then, she came to you.... it just made me think.... maybe it happened from going out of the bad situation to the good with you two...
 
About Luna's condition when she was brought to the shelter- she looked fat. But as soon as you touched her you realized that she had a saggy belly but was really boney and thin everywhere else. This is a common sign of malnutrition in many mammals, including those pot-bellied kids you see in famine areas in 3rd world countries. She also had some roughness to her skin on the ears and to her nails. I have no idea what her owners were feeding her. I attributed most of the malnutrition to her molar spurs that were preventing her from eating (she was in GI slowdown aka stasis), although I'd be surprised if her diet had been "healthy."
 
Thanks Naturestee for the input. If you were comfortable having Luna on the Tramadol, then I won't worry so much about it. Yea, I don't want her totally knocked out, just feel well enough to take the pain away and still be able to function. I will also ask about a pharmacy perscription for the elixer especially if they don't have any in yet. I would really just like to have it on hand for the bad times, not every day usage. So the longer it lasts, the better.

myheart
 
Bo B Bunny wrote:
She was underweight at first? I couldn't remember which it was. I know she was SO much healthier after such a short time. Then, she came to you.... it just made me think.... maybe it happened from going out of the bad situation to the good with you two...
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**shruggs** I am not sure what to say...

At first I was going to respond with saying that maybe she wouldn't have had stones with her first people, but if they were feeding her bad food to begin with...? Pellets were the one thing the vet said to definitely eliminate, although I have read that Oxbow pellets are lower in calcium than most other brands. So if they were feeding bad pellets, I would assume they might have had a higher calcium level. They might have not fed any greens either, or maybe something like iceburg lettuce.

I don't think we will ever know.... There are just too many variable. Aside from genetics, maybe this could also be age related. My little girl is turning grey already so she might actually be older than we think.

Just thoughts...

myheart
 
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