(RIP) UPDATE: Luna has stones in both kidneys

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Thanks so much for the good thoughts NorthernAutumn and kherrmann3. Luna is such a good girl that it would kill me to lose my little girl now. This experience has really made us much closer.

When the doctor was handing her back to me after the x-ray, I was lucky I was sort of ready for her otherwise she would have flown across the exam table and over my shoulder. :shock:All she wanted was to be in my arms getting cuddled and being protected. Luna's actions made me feel important in her life as her guardian (mom) and reconfirmed that she trusts and loves me. :pShe really does have a piece of my heart!

Thanks for all healing thoughts.

myheart
 
I would really like to have the bloodwork as soon as possible. With everything going on I know it might be tough....and very dangerous in the frigid weather....it is very cold here and getting colder. But a problem in the kidneys can escalate quickly. Remember that the renal system is part of waste removal...and if that waste isn't expelled efficiently....it isn't good. And if the x-rays are digital....I would be glad to look at them if you could send them. Keep the hydration up above all! Tramadol is an excellent drug that gives pain control like an opiate. It does have to be compounded into a suspension and it can be flavored. It can also be used concurrently with NSAIDs if necessary. It is normally dosed twice a day...a third dose per day can offer some sedation should that become necessary. Tramadol is a great drug...and it's easy to have around since it isn't a controlled drug. Veryuseful in rabbits. Hang in there.

Randy
 
Randy, I called the vet place today and found that the doctor does not have an e-mail account with the clinic. I will have to get all of my questions ready for him, call to say I have questions, then wait for his return call. I must say though, he is extremely good about calling back. It is probably good I didn't try to get ahold of him today anyhow... Wednesdays are his surgery days.

I will get my questions ready for him by morning.I think my evening job may be cancelled because of the cold so i should have plenty of time to wait for his return call. If there is anything in particular you want me to ask him, please post, and I will make it a point to check this thread before I call and while I wait for his response. I also want to make sure I have your previous post in front of me when he calls back anyhow.

Thanks for all of your help Randy!! You are such an asset to the forumand to all of our bunners!

myheart
 
Thanks for the very kind words....it means a lot and I really needed it the way things are getting out of hand around here.

I really thinka urinalysis and a full CBC with EC titer will shed more light on the subject. The EC titer is something that will have to be sent out for labs. If this titer is performed, do not get upset if it comes back positive....it most likely will as most domestic rabbits have been exposed to EC at some point. The titer is to see the level of antibodies. To get a good look, there should be several titers performed over a period of several weeks. The initial presentations of EC are usually some type of neuro marker. This could be a barely noticable paresis that is usually presented in the left rear leg. It might be an odd stretch of the leg as she hops...or it could cause a stumble. To make a complicated story short and simple....as the spores of the protozoa multiply, the spores are shed thru the kidneys. These spores can appear to be calcium. These spores pit and scar the kidneys....and the kidneys will decline in efficiency. This will show up in the renal values. It is one piece of a much larger puzzle. The initial onset of EC is many times misdiagnosed as a UTI due to the "crystals" (spores) in the urine. The leg issue is many times attributed to pain related to the UTI. The CBC will also allow us to take a look at various kidney and liver values....and those values usually tell the tale. The urinalysis will basically look for unusual bacteria in the urine. It will also test the pH and that will tell us a lot too.

Diagnosing problems like this, as I mentioned earlier, is like a puzzle. Put all the pieces together, and you will get a correct diagnosis which should lead to an effective response. I'll be watching....and don't hesitate to send me a PM. I will have limited time available on the forum for a while.

Randy
 
Bo always jumps from the vet to me..... without warning. When we first took him, the vet at the time was a big softie for bunnies. He had raised mini-rex and when Bo jumped to me and hid his face under my chin.... the vet just melted..... "oh look at the baby loving his mama!" hehe Makes you feel great! Scares you when they jump tho! :shock:

I sure pray Luna does well. I wish they could get those stones out of her :(
 
Bo B Bunny wrote:
I sure pray Luna does well. I wish they could get those stones out of her :(
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I agree with that so much. It feels like she is carrying a little time-bomb and there is no way of knowing when it will go off. Luna was so happy for her apple-snack this morning that I would never suspect anything wrong with her. She is so awesome and such a little trooper! :p

myheart



 
tonyshuman wrote:
Any news?
:pray:
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Nothing different.....

I did get to talk with Luna's vet, Dr. Travis. Basically, it will be a diet change for Luna. I asked about all of the tests, including the CBC and EC titer, and he believes that there will be no new information gained by performing the tests. He will do another x-ray on the fourth of February and run a blood panel to check for kidney function. He had said that at the time of the last panel done for her dental last year, her kidneys were functioning just fine, so there were no indicators of a problem. He said that if there is a change in panel values, there would be nothing to do for her anyhow because she would be going through renal failure which would beirreversable.

The development of kidney stones is probablytied togenetics. He had said that out of all the rabbits he treats, he has had only one other case of kidney stones. That rabbit's stones were found by "accident" also. An x-ray was taken to determine the cause of stasis and the stones were found. No other indication of stones were presented in behavior of the rabbit, as with Luna.

The urine sample he took indicated calcium crystals, so there will be no alfalfa or pellets in her diet. We are trying to stay away from the kale and parsley, but I know she misses her kale because she is being fuss about eating the Romaine and green leaf lettuce. Cilantro and carrot disappear in seconds flat...:D

Dr. Travis will perscribe the Tramadol for her, but he is having a difficult time getting his hands on the elixer, which will have a shelf-life of a year. Compared to the suspenssion they could make up from pill-form with a shelf-life of a month. I am hoping he will get the elixer in by February fourth so I will be able to have it on hand for any pain relief.

He also said that although the x-ray does not distinguish individual stones, he thinks they should be small enough to pass on their own. He had said that if the stones were too big, her kidneys would look swollen. At this point, they have a normal shape, size, and function.

Not sure what else to add, other than she seems to be doing fine today. She went through another bit of stasis this weekend, so I can only hope she passed another stone. Today Luna was so excited to get her berry-snack for breakfast and she hung out with Zappa all morning. I love seeing her feel good... she is like a ray of sunshine when she is happy! :pIt just brings tears to my eyes to see her enjoy life.

So this is where I get to ask every one for their help... Please send healing thoughts and vibes to Luna. I am asking for her to be healthy and free of stones, and any damage they caused, by spring. Spring will be the best time because the spring solstice is in March. The end of March will be Luna's first gotchya-day!!!! I want her to go outside, when the weather turns nice, to enjoy the sunshine with Patrick and Zappa. :p

Thanks to every one, especially Randy, for all of your help. The information and the links were most helpful to myself and hopefully others with similar problems with their bunners.

myheart
 
Awww that's my girl! Cilantro is all of my bunnies' favorite along with carrot tops!

I hope those stones just go away!
 
Good luck, little miss Luna! Hopefully you'll pass those stones! I also hope that they are little stones! It would be even better if they went away!
 
Thanks so much for the well wishes Bo B and k~! The good thoughts are much appreciated and needed for my little girl. It warmed my heart to see her cuddling with Zappa this morning.She also made time to cuddlewith Patrick in a bit of sunshine until he decided to lay some lovin' on her. :pNow I have a few more sunny-bunny pics to post.

myheart
 
Umm...I hate to disagree with a vet since I am not a vet....but this time I am. I would insist on the blood panel with the EC titer. Since there was nothing in a previous blood panel some time ago, that raises a flag. Renal failure and stones are not something that just happens in a few months without a root cause. The reason I would want the EC titer is to see what the level of antibodies are. One of the first indications of an active EC infection is kidney issues. The other is a very slight paresis usually in the left rear leg. It might be nothing more than a very slight stumble or an odd stretch of the leg. But when the spores of the protozoa shed, they interfere with th efficiency of the kidneys. That can cause an increased concentration of calcium in the urine which isn't being properly managed by the renal system. It might not be EC....but a titer would give us an idea and if it's low, EC can be elminated from the discussion. But if the titer is high...that would bring on more talk. No flaming to any vet...but honestly, very few vets have seen a real case of EC.

Renal failure can't be cured...but it can be managed. I have had a rabbit in renal failure for a very long time....and he had active EC. Thru a series of husbandry and medical protocols, we provided him a high quality of life right up to the last couple of days of his life.

I would not wait on the suspension agent for the Tramadol. It is quite easy to compound enough for a few days....and it is stable in Lactated Ringers for some time...not a year but good for afew days. Ask your vet if he would make up a few day's worth using LRS and FlavorX.

Randy
 
Randy,

I just printed off all of your suggestions to take with me for Luna's appointment. I am a bit tempted to send it snail-mail, but if they don't accept e-mails they may not accept regular mail either.

Luna is doing well for now. She is not happy about not being able to have kale, but enjoys the extra berry I sneak to her during the day. She is so skinny from her stasis that the calories might do her some good. I also picked up some acidophilous to sprinkle on her food because she does not care for the bene-bac gel. I know I read about it in one of Randy's posts for some one else and the vet concurred one that one. I have also been trying to feed her cranberries, but I think Zappa has been taking them, so we will probably go back to the juice I picked up. It only has filtered water to dilute the concentrate.

It really is amazing how naughty Luna is when she is feeling better.... :D

myheart
 
Good Luck at the vet Janet

You can also get benbac in a powder form. I buy it at petco and put it into a piece of banana. You want to make sure that the active microorganism lactobacillus casei is being given to her for her gut flora to stabilize.
 
LuvaBun wrote:
it's good to hear that Luna is feeling better in herself. I am praying that the stones either go away, or are passed easily.

Jan
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Thanks so much for the good wishes. Luna has been feeling so much better of late. She has been so naughty with trying to steal pellets from Zappa's and Patrick's dishes. I think she finally knows that she had lost so much weight and realizes how hungry she is. The poor girly lost a half a pound in that one week of stasis and it really shows. Her little butt is so bony now that her hip bones have no meat on them anymore.

The vet says that as long as she is interested in her greens and hay, she should gain some weight back. I just hope she gains enough in case of another stasis caused from passing another stone.

We are staying as positive as possible in the hopes that she will be better for spring and her first gotchya day. All the prayers are so helpful, thank you. :D

myheart
 
I just saw this now.
Glad she's doing better and I hope she is able to pass them!
She reminds me of Dolla- She loooooves pellets but can't have as much as Marley and Domino and if Domino doesn't finish in time Dolla will try to steal them! :p
Best wishes. :hug2:
 
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