RIP: Tiny has bladder infection/sludge (thought it was seizures)

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Hi All,

Peg asked me to update everyone. She said she is still a "nervous wreck" and Tiny is mad. She is at a vet as I post this. I have been talking to her quite a bit by PM, regular e-mailand by phone since last night. It is looking more and more like a urinary issue. The vet manually expressed Tiny's bladder and Peg said it was thick, concentrated and smelly. Appeared there may have been pus in there too. The vet was still doing the physical as we were talking last.

I think Peg has found an excellent vet. Peg seems very comfortable with what this doctor is doing....and I could tell there was some relief inher voice during our last phone conversation. It seems that Tiny is in good hands.

Will update again after Tiny's PE is completed.

Randy
 
well...if someone was....MANUALLY expelling MY bladder...i would not be quite happy either.

yay peg and tiny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for the update, randy!

Tracy
 
Just heard from Peg....they are on the way home. She said she is not a nervous wreck now....but still concerned. She will be updating everyone when she gets home.

Randy
 
Yes, thanks, indeed, Randy, for taking the time to let us know. I'm sure everybody is calmer and more relieved now that Tiny is under the proper vet care. It's great that Peg found a good vet!

Send her everybody's love when you talk to her again.

Marietta
 
oh my Peg i hope you realise how many bananas, craisons and cheerios you are gonna need this time to get him out of his huff when he is feeling better!!!

so glad you found a good vet
 
ra7751 wrote:
... It seems that Tiny is in good hands.
Click to expand...

Yes, Tiny's been in good hands... Randy's!

What an awesome, knowledgeable, caringguy.:cry4:

Peg, Tiny and Rabbits Online are all verylucky he's beengenerous enough to share himself with us.

:hugsquish:

Here's hoping that allgoes well onTiny's road to recovery.



sas :pray:


 
Thank you for letting us know what's been happening, Randy.

I'm pleased Peg seems less stressed, and that Tiny is doing better. Keeping the prayers coming until he is out of the woods and recovered!

Jan
 
Thanks for the kind words....it means a lot to me. I just hope my experiences and knowledgeare helpful toour rabbit friends and all of us rabbit slaves.

Randy
 
ra7751 wrote:
Thanks for the kind words....it means a lot to me. I just hope my experiences and knowledgeare helpful toour rabbit friends and all of us rabbit slaves.

Randy
Click to expand...
Randy, you are awesome and the wealth of advice and knowledge you provide is priceless.:hug: Thank you for that! The forum would not be the same without you, that's a fact:nod.
 
We made it home about 15 minutes ago and have been getting Tiny back in the house (you'll understand why it took so long when I post a picture of his carrier later on).

First off - Tiny does have a urinary tract infection. She went to examine him and he peed - a lot. She then tried to work with his bladder to get a better sample and all that came out was sludge....LOTS of sludge.

I thought it was pus cause it smelled so bad. REALLY bad.

My dad always says that "hindsight is 20/20" and he's so right. Looking back now, I realize that off and on there has been a strange odor in the office. Since I've been having the windows open lately - I had assumed it was coming from outside...beacuse I'd look around and not find anything that made me see where it was coming from. I think it is because Tiny was finally using the litter box and the Woody Pet was sort of covering up things.

Last night while I was trying to sleep on the floor with Tiny - he peed twice and it was almost like toothpaste or something coming out - caulk almost....and boy did it smell bad. I told him if he kept it up - I'd have to leave the room and give him the mattress.

Anyway - we made it into San Antonio 15 minutes before the vet closed. This was not the vet I chose and notified ahead of time - they called and left a message on my cell phone recommending this other vet - and I'm so glad that they did.

I don't agree with everything the vet did - for instance, I feel like Tiny could've used some stronger pain meds and I wish she'd given him some sub-q fluids. She felt like he had enough fluids....and yes, he was alert. I just felt like giving him fluids would help him feel more comfortable. She didn't.

I wish he had something stronger than the meds she gave him for the infection - BUT - she explained her reasoning to me and said that she prefers to follow this course of treatment with rabbits - at least to start with. (She gave him baytril).

Tiny is awake right now and somewhat alert...but obviously not feeling comfortable. On the way home we stopped and I bought him two types of green leafy lettuce and some cilantro...he refused all of it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is - he's home - he's alive and he's doing pretty good. However, I haven't seen much for poops in over 12 hours....so I'm starting him on critical care once his pain meds kick in.

He is going to have to switch to Timothy pellets and there will be some other changes made in his diet and stuff - but for right now - I'll just go sit w/ him for a few minutes and I'll write more later...

Peg
 
Thank goodness, Peg. I'm so glad he'll be okay, I was so worried about him last night. I kept sitting here saying "Come on Tiny, Come on". I'm so relieved. Good job Peg, you did great:)!

Feel better soon, Tiny;).
 
Oh, Peg, I'm so relieved!! I half expected a call, but I'm so glad you called Randy instead, as he certainly has more advice to give! :)

I'm so glad Tiny's home, and that he's getting the meds he needs...and I hope to hear of more improvement and Happy Tiny actions soon...

I'm here if you need a friend to talk to...you can call me anytime, day or night. :hug:
 
So - what does a flemish giant ride in for a 3 hour trip to the vet?

The first photo sort of gives you an idea of the size...sorry for the bag - I put his greens in there with him 'cause we were bringing him inside...


If you look closely - you can see him in it.....see how much extra space he had???



He had hay under the towel making a nice mattress....and he had greens, bananas, baby food and more to tempt him to eat...

Peg
 
Hi Peg!

I'm so glad to hear that Tiny is doing well now. Poor big boy...I cannot even fathom how painful it is to pee something practically solid. OUCH.

Did you ask the vet if she would administer fluids? Usually, I would ask and if they say no, they will at least give me a reason why so I understand. Also, did you mention that you're a breeder and you have prior knowledge about rabbits and their health...more than she might have thought you do? You know..in a.. tactful way I guess...

Give Tiny a hug from me, and then give him a hug from Nemo...okay?

Best wishes to a fast recovery! (To BOTH of you!)

Tracy
 
Aww w w w w w....Tiny looks so upset...:(

But I have to say, kinda cute, him lookin' small for a change in that big ol' tub...
 
Well - I should go feed the other bunnies but so much is going through my mind all at once. I don't want to go too much into detail on some things here largely because I don't want people to start "self-diagnosing" their bunnies. I think there are times when we can look at them and know what they need (like if we give them some nutrical or canned pumpkin 'cause we see they're not pooping as much) ~ but there are times when I think it was Ivory put it best..."This rabbit needs a vet and not an online forum".

In this case - Tiny needed both the forum (as did I) and a vet.

About the vet - first of all - I liked her. Almost the first words out of her mouth when she walked in and saw Tiny were...."I just love rabbits". It was obvious from the way she handled him and treated him that she is comfortable around rabbits and does care about them.

I do disagree with some of the decisions she made about how to treat him....but when we discussed things she did not just say to me, "This is the way I've always done it..." or "Well that's too bad you feel that way". Instead - she explained to me why she was making the decisions she was making - and in some ways - her answers make sense.

For instance - I wanted Tiny on something other than Metacam...something perhaps a bit stronger. He had been in SUCH pain and I knew he might have another long night or two ahead of him. She didn't want him on something stronger because he hadn't eaten in several hours and she felt that the metacam would be enough to help him relax and start eating and drinking and that would help him feel better. I disagree with her - but she did make sense. She said that when she worked with rabbits - she prefered to "start" with metacam to see if it would be enough to handle the pain. She really feels like in a couple of days Tiny will be feeling much better - we just have to get him eating and drinking.

I wanted him on something other than baytril...but once again - she wanted to consider his stomach and the fact he's only been on baytril once before. She wanted to 'start' with baytril and see if that would be enough versus using something that might be more aggressive and harder on his system.

I wanted her to do some sub-q fluids. However, she did not want to stress him out any further by doing sub-q fluids, especially since I had already stated I knew how to do them (and could do them at home). Tiny had already been examined, had his bladder expressed, had shaving done around his sore hocks and his open wound thingy (thanks to Miss Bea) and he was getting pretty darn stressed. She felt like if we took him home, got him on the meds (especially the pain meds) - he would feel better and start eating and drinking naturally - especially if he had leafy greens, etc. to choose from. She pointed out that he was alert and he did not look dehydrated at all.

I did buy some Oxbow Critical Care (the big container 'cause I was almost out - it was $35 - OUCH) and she thought that would be really great to work with for him also. It was actually my idea to buy it - she didn't push it - but I like to have it on hand.

I did tell her I was a breeder - big mistake. Note to self....get to know vet before saying something like that again.

However, I did tell her when I brought him in that I suspected bladder sludge and/or an infection - turned out to be both.

She did seem impressed with my medical knowledge (limited as it is) and my questions. She didn't seem upset by them or thrown by them....and she was more than willing to discuss what she believes. I left there feeling respect for her (even if we disagree) and feeling like she respected me also.

Since getting home, I've talked to Randy and done some research. Tiny has received his dose of pain meds and I'm letting him relax before I try to compound that baytril tablet and get it down him. We have a plan of action that includes what the vet has suggested but also includes other things. Right now our focus is to "stay the course"....keep Tiny comfortable - not get him upset by having me be upset, etc.

Some of you may wonder, "Well...what are you going to do?". Sorry - but I'm not going to share - not because it is anything dangerous or wrong or anything like that.

But I would hate to say something like "We're giving Tiny 10 ounces of coffee per day" (HINT: I picked something that would be really REALLY stupid to do so folks won't do it) and then try to treat their rabbit themselves instead of seeing a vet. Honestly - I am totally convinced that a bladder infection is something you need help with.

I've been wondering all day, "How could I go from thinking this was heart issues to thinking it was bladder? What changed?"

Part of it was - I automatically thought the worst at first. Tiny was breathing so hard and having such a hard time of it. After the losses I've had - it would only make sense that he was doing the same thing - following the same pattern.

But he wasn't - and as I watched him struggle to pee - I realized just how much pain he was in. Imagine if you were trying to go to the bathroom - and it was like trying to pee woodworking caulk or super hard toothpaste? You would hurt too.

I was trying to describe to Eric the pain Tiny was in - when remembered the movie, "The Green Mile" and the infection that Tom Hanks' character had in it.....I think it was the same thing.

Before I close this post though - I need to say one other thing. Y'all have NO idea how much your love, support and prayers meant to me through this. I was literally expecting Tiny to pass on from moment to moment and I would come back to this thread and reread it. Then I'd think, "What if I am missing something? What if it isn't his heart?". When Randy and I were finally able to chat - and then I observed Tiny for a couple of hours - I realized - it wasn't his heart.

But it was because of YOUR courage - of your telling him to hang in there - that I let go of what I thought was the truth - and found out the truth.

In other words - you believed when I couldn't - and your belief....helped me to make some good decisions.

So thank you everyone - someday - when he's not so grumpy - maybe Tiny will even thank y'all too!

Peg
 
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