random tilting of the head?

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ChandieLee

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Hi everyone. I know it's been a long time since I've been on here....

I woke up to find Belle just sitting in the cage... I was watching her, and I noticed that the fur around her mouth is kinda brown-ish. As I went to get a closer look, she tilted her head the right. And since then, she keeps tilting her head to the right. And the more she dos it, the longer she keeps her head tilted. I'm not sure why she would do that... Anyone know about head tilting?
 
Okay. I called Belle's regular vet, and they can't take heer today... they don't have any spaces left. So, I'm taking her to an emergency vet that's like two towns away. I'll let you know how it goes. As always, thanks for your help.
 
I hope the emergency vet is rabbit savvy!

The sooner you get her into the vet and get her treated - the better her chances are with tilt!

Good luck and keep us posted!

:pray:
 
Hey everyone. We just got back. It turns out Belle has E. Cuniculi. She's been given a 30 day supply of Panacur. If she's not eating, drinking or still acting lethargic tomorrow, I will have to bring her back in. Thanks for the support everyone. :hug1
 
whoa, I'm just reading this now. I'm glad you caught this - and I hope Belle recovers well. Never a fun thing to deal with. You did the right thing and got her taken care of right away :)Lots of good thoughts coming your way.
 
I hope she feels better soon! Although I would call and ask about antibiotics too, just in case there is also an ear infection. They can be really hard to find, and it's better to treat it now.
 
Yes. I will ask about antibiotics too. I'm thinking I will have to bring her in again tomorrow because we've been home for about two hours and she hasn't eaten or drank her water. I'll let you all know what happens though.
 
She might be feeling too ill to eat. There are meds available for the dizzyness her tilted head is most likely causing, but till then you might need to syringe fluids and food into her.

Hopefully your regular rabbit vet can see her tomorrow.
 
Hi,

I have a huge concern here. Just how was E Cuniculi diagnosed? The fact is...E Cuniculi does not cause head tilt. This is a very common misconception even among vets. And truthfully, very few vets have ever seen an actual EC infection. I have treated many rabbits that were EC positive and many that tilted. In every case except two, the root cause of the tilt was an infection in the ear. While EC doesn't directly cause the tilt, it does overwhelm the immune system to the point that opportunistic bacteriainvade. The ears are the weakest link in the body of a rabbit..and usually the first to suffer theinduced secondary infections from the EC. EC rabbits can have "roving" infections...this month it is the ears, next month urinary tract, next maybe the eyes, etc. The two cases of tilt that were not ear infections were cottontails with obvious head trauma. We have had EC rabbits that never tilted but presented all other neurological deficiencies....and we have had non-EC buns tilt from stand aloneinfections.

I think Sparky is in our blog. He tilted while at a pet store. He was diagnosed with EC and treated for that. He had a major ear infection. Had it been treated properly to begin with, he would not have to spend the rest of his life twisted around.

As far as diagnosing EC, the only true method of pinpointing EC is a post mortem exam of brain tissue....that is not a desired result. There is a blood titer that checks for antibodies in the blood. To get anything near an accurate look, it requires several titers to be performed over a period of several weeks. The idea of the test is to see if the antibody levels are rising or falling. If they are rising, the thinking is the infection is active. If the levels are falling, the event in maturing. This test leaves a lot to be desired but is the best we have now.

I have had the distinct displeasure of treating numerous EC positive rabbits here....in fact, our rescue is named in honor of Sabrina. She was my very first rescue....and daddy's little girl. I lost her to EC....and nobody had ever heard of this issue back then. She is my reason for learning and researching so much about this issue. In every case of active EC, the first presentation is neurological....in every case here, the left rear leg showed issues. In the beginning, it appeared to be a "lazy" leg....a little stumble here and there. It got better but came back. There is also a change in the urine as the spores from the protozoa shed. This causes scar tissue and pitting inside the kidneys which reduces their efficiency. This results in a very smelly and concentrated urine. Many times the rabbit will stay wet with urine. It is most often misdiagnosed as a bacterialUTI.

Treatment for EC is challenging. The latest and greatest is the "bendazoles" and Fenbendazole (Panacur) is the latest in that family. I have not seen it to be particularly effective.It has a tough time penetrating theblood/brain barrier.I don't use is as a "stand alone" but as part of an overall attack strategy. In reality, to get EC into remission....it will be the rabbit's own immune system. Supporting the immune system is paramount in an EC event. The drug with the most promise for an effective treatment is Ponazuril and is marketed by Bayer as Marquis. It is designed to treat Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis (EPM) in horses. It appears, on paper anyway, that the organisms that cause EC in rabbits and EPM in horses are very closely related. A bright spot for a horrible condition. I have not had the opportunity to use my theory but I bet some real doctors have figured this out already (I had a rabbit ready for treatment but lost her to kidney failure from EC before we could treat her).

I am not a vet...but here are my suggestions based on my very long term experiences with "special needs" rabbits. I would get back in to see the vet as quickly as possible. I would look very carefully for "markers"....using x-rays and/or cultures if necessary. I would take a long and hard look at the ears....and since she is tilted right, the issue is on the right side. Just because an infection can't be seen by the naked eye (or by an otoscope) does not mean there is not an infection. And don'tdiscount the possibility of a dental issue with the roots of the upper arcade molars....and that can onlybeseen by radiographs. A blood panel will also help piece the puzzle together. Check the rectal temperature. Look at her eyes. Do they move when they shouldn't be....maybe a very slight tick. You might have to look closely. If they tick, that is called nystagmus and would be an indication of a vestibular infection (or head trauma). If the eyes tick only when she is picked up, that is called positional nystagmus and usually is caused by infection that has moved into the brain stem. Ear infections require a major treatment protocol. I would also request that the vet access the internet and consult with other doctors on protocols and clinical diagnosis for EC.

Again, I am not a vet and it is not my intent to "flame" the doctor. I have the utmost respect for vets....they are all fantastic people. But I am hoping to give you some ideas to pursue based on my many years of experience. I have no problem with using the Panacur protocol since it will at least deworm her...but I would really go the extra mile with those ears.

Randy
 
Randy, do you mind if I print out what you wrote? I'd like to bring that to the vet with me tomorrow. I haven't noticed any weird movements with her eyes, but I will definitely got take a closer look and get back to you, but I did notice something just a moment ago. Firstly, Belle attepmted to eat. She ate a pellet and her head tilted to the right and she gave up trying to eat. Then, she cleaned her face and again, tilted to the right. If she's sitting still, or lying down, her head is fine. Once again, i don't know what to make of that. So, now I'll go and take a look at here eyes and get back to you.

I checked her eyes, and I saw no weird movements or ticks, however, upon picking her up, I realized that smells strongly of urine. :(
 
Hey everyone. I just thought I'd update....

Belle doesn't seem to be doing any better. She doesn't want to eat or drink, there are hardly any poops in her litter box, and it seems like she's having a hard time urinating.

Last night, I kept Belle and Necro in seperate cages. I'm not sure if what Belle has is contagious... she doesn't like the seperation. She wanted out of the cage, so she frantically started rattling the cage. :(I felt so bad, so my boyfriend and I went and slept on the the floor in the living room, right next to her cage. She calmed down, but I don't know if she slept at all.

I plan on calling the vet as soon as they are open. I was wondering if I should bring Necro in as well? Yesterday before I knew what was going on, he was with Belle and like I said, I don't know if what she has contagious.

As always, thanks for your help.
 
I think you can leave them together, just make sure you can tell whether she is pooping and eating. If it is actuallyE. cuniculi or partially from it, he already has been exposed. Actually, the majority of healthy rabbits test positive for E. cuniculi but never develop symptoms. To my knowledge, ear infections are not contagious.

If Necro can make her feel more comfortable at home and/or the vet's office (carrier buddy?), all the better. If he usually grooms her, he can help her keep clean as she'll have trouble caring for herself at the moment.

I highly recommend syringing fluids and food into her now since she doesn't seem to be able to eat on her own. It's really hard with the crooked head and dizzyness. If she goes without eating for more than 24 hours she might go into stasis, and from the lack of poops she's probably pretty empty inside right now. Ground up pellets soaked in water work well for food, so does canned pumpkin.
 
Okay. Thanks so much. :)

Yes, Necro does groom her alot and I'm thinking she'll be alot more comfortable with him. I will also bring him to the vet with her. I'm still waiting for her vet's office to open, so in the meantime, I will syringe her food and water.

Again, thanks. :)
 
I don't know anything about EC other than what I read butI just wanted to add that Panacur has been used to treat EPM in race horses for many years with good results.
 
If you are familiar with EPM in horses....check out Marquis. I live neara major vet school that does a lot of equine research. Horses and rabbits are treated similarly. This is the drug of choice for EPM. It appears to be very promising in rabbit work. I have heard that it has also been used in dogs for stubborn coccidia. The only real draw back I see with this drug is the huge cost. But if it works against EC....it would be worth the price.

http://www.bayerdvm.com/products/marquis/marquis.cfm

Randy
 
I brought Belle and Necro to the vet earlier; she had still not been eating and had started grinding her teeth. Their vet actually decided to keep Belle there over-night since she wasn't eating and in obvious pain. I believe she was actually having stomach pain. She'll be running some tests on her to see what's going on. Since Necro is still eating, drinking and running around like normal. she decided to send him home. She didn't do any tests however. She wanted to test Belle first, to see if anything comes back positive.
I don't know much about medication, but if it turns out that she definitely has E. Cinuculi, I can ask her about Marquis. I know she's keeping Belle on the Panacur while she's there.
 

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