Insatiable appetite, lots of output - normal or no?

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tonyshuman wrote:
low phosphorus is also a sign of kidney disease....

Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond much in this thread, lots of great info here. I will add that I'm under the impression that most of the time it seems tests show low phosphorus because its a stress thing (or something). I've got some written material kicking around on this, I'll have to find it. A few other 'off' values may also be typical of this, but I do remember the phosphorus one.


sas :bunnydance:
 
Pipp wrote:
I'm concerned he's not getting enough sleep because he's eating so much for such long periods of time. And the more hay my rabbits eat, the more they drink. I'm filling up Mister's bowl constantly.
Yeah, I wonder if Penny sleeps. She seems to flop down for a quick rest every so often, but nowhere near as much as my other two buns. She seems to eat and eat and eat and eat.... all day long.

I have been restricting her water now. I give her 3 portions of water per day, and the bowl is about 1/3 full. So basically she's going from 3 bowls of water to about 1, plus what she gets in veggies. And what she steals from Kirby's water bowl when they're bonding. :grumpy She drinks every drop as soon as I put the bowl down. Sahara bunny? :?
Pipp wrote:
tonyshuman wrote:
low phosphorus is also a sign of kidney disease....

Sorry I haven't had a chance to respond much in this thread, lots of great info here. I will add that I'm under the impression that most of the time it seems tests show low phosphorus because its a stress thing (or something). I've got some written material kicking around on this, I'll have to find it. A few other 'off' values may also be typical of this, but I do remember the phosphorus one.


sas :bunnydance:
This is good to know... at least it's sorta "normal".
 
It's normal to not see a bunny sleep for several weeks after you first get them. I rarely see my guys sleep, but as they get older and more comfortable I catch it more often.

How is her urinary output now that you're restricting water? I wouldn't want to see things change.

When a blood sample is taken, there is usually an anti-coagulant added. That's usually already in the tube that they collect the blood into. I don't know if you remember having blood taken yourself, but there's a big glob of stuff in there before they even start taking blood. That's the anticoagulant. Common ones are K2EDTA and heparin. Some tests aren't compatible with certain anticoagulants.

Also it's possible that instead of collecting with an anticoagulant in the tube, they take the blood sample and immediately put a small amount through the cell counter, and let the rest clot. They then spin it down to obtain the serum. All the cells can be concentrated into the bottom of the tube by spinning it really fast, using centrifugal force to make the more dense cells go to the bottom. The top part is called serum, and it's mostly water, proteins, and ions. Since the tests are called "serum blood chemistry" that's probably what they do.

You can do the same thing to a sample of blood that has been collected with anticoagulant, and the liquid that doesn't spin down after that is called plasma.

Sorry if this is more info than you need, I just think it's interesting because or past jobs and my current research. Anyway, what probably happened was they took a sample of blood and it sat around too long to get an accurate cell count--it had started to clot before they could get it into the instrument. They were still able to get a good serum chemistry test because clotting of the blood is required prior to isolating the serum for analysis.
 
Claire, first of all thank you for your great explanation about the blood clot. That makes a lot of sense and now I really get it. I have seen blood tests taken for humans but never paid much mind to the tube until you mentioned it. I interned at the office of an OB GYN when I was pretty young and I do remember the centrifuge and so on. It was a crash course through a medical practice -- makes better sense now :)

Her urine output is now more normal, I guess. I gauge by the weight of her litter box so it's more or less my opinion relative to my other rabbits. The output is less only because I give her less. Her attitude towards water has not changed, however. Soon as I set the bowl down she slurps it dry. It's like she's constantly thirsty. When she sees Kirby's bowl (if I forgot to take it away during bonding) she slurps that dry too.

This could just be a misconception of mine but I've noticed it takes very little time for water to go through her. Literally, I'll give her a 1/3 bowl of water and sure enough, I'll find a little puddle, or several little puddles somewhere within 30 minutes or less. Every little bit of water - including what's in the veggies. I now have to confine her to her pen for a while after giving her anything to eat or drink so that she won't pee somewhere undesirable.

She still gets the urine all over herself. It's just awful, I imagine, for her. I picked her up yesterday after she had another accident in Kirby's condo and there was enough urine in her fur to soak the bottom half of my shirt through to my skin. I put a cooling rack in her litter box so she no longer has to sit in her pee, but when she pees on the floor, she mops it up herself and drags it around inside her pen. Either she's mopping or she's getting it all over herself when she's actually peeing.
 
I described Penny's situation with someone from the rescue where I got her. She thinks Penny might need an xray to confirm if she has any bladder stones or sludge. She had a rabbit who had a lot of the same symptoms except her rabbit didn't drink much while Penny drinks a lot. Penny pees little puddles and to me it doesn't look like she's straining. She just pees a little bit each time, and quite often. It's possible that she is peeing just enough to relieve her bladder, and maybe it's full of other stuff that makes it painful to urinate properly :( Her rabbit also sat around and wasn't very active. Penny is a chronic lounger. Even with the extra space she has shared with Kirby now, she just lies there. She isn't very active at all.
 
That's not a bad idea. Did you get the blood test re-done?
 
I meant to reply to your last post, but I've been having computer problems and it must have gotten lost in a crash. Bunnies usually don't get pee on themselves, or if they do, they clean it off. Just sitting in pee and peeing everywhere can be a sign of a urinary tract problem, or generalized pain. An x-ray would be a good idea.
 
kirbyultra wrote:
Hi everybody

As some of you may know, Penny is a new bun in my household. She is my 3rd rabbit and I adopted her from the shelter. She is about 2 years old. She is a mixed breed beyond recognition, but she is medium size, 5.6lbs and very lean and muscular (not fat, not thin). She was recently diagnosed with ear mites and was treated with a dose of Revolution on this past Wednesday.

I volunteer with the shelter so I knew Penny long before I adopted her. She has *always* been a big eater. She will eat anything you put in front of her immediately and won't stop every last morsel has been consumed. People thought we were starving her because of how she reacted to food. She tested NEGATIVE for parasites in a fecal test. She is perfect size and weight. We've always fed her 1/4 cup of timothy pellets a day, a healthy portion of greens daily and about half a litter box full of hay. She'll eat all of it by the time the next volunteer sees her.

When I took her home, I gave her the same amount, but more greens because that's just how much I feed my bunnies. Every time I see her, her water bowl is empty and her litter box no longer has hay. She eats EVERYTHING in a short amount of time. I fill her litterbox 3/4 way to the top with hay about 2 or 3 times in a 24 hour period. She'll eat every little piece of hay until all I see is the newspaper lining unless I give her more. She drinks more water than I've ever seen any rabbit drink. I understand that the more hay a bun eats, the more likely they are to drink water. But she literally goes through 3 bowls of water a day and slurp it dry. Her urine was orangey-red when I got her, but since the vet visit and she got Revolution, her pee has turned almost clear. Kind of strange, but maybe not abnormal.

What I've thought was kind of strange was her poop. She eats a ton of hay, so she poops a lot of poo :biggrin: Her poop is about the size of a marble, some are a little bigger. They are mostly dry with visible little hay fibers in it, sometimes a little bit moist but not mushy. They're not always round. Sometimes they're an oblong shape.

The shape sorta worries me because I did hear her gut gurgle a couple of times from a reasonable distance away. She never seems to be in pain and if she were having any stasis threats, I am sure I would have noticed given her track record for putting away food, so I don't think it's that. I have heard that the longish shaped poop could be a sign of megacolon. What is megacolon and what should I be looking for? She was just at the vet last Wed. and besides the ear mites, the vet didn't visibly see anything wrong with her. Or is her food intake and long poop just "normal"?

I would appreciate any thoughts on this! I could just be a bit oversensitive, but she's new to me and I just want to make sure she's healthy.
How is ur rabbit now?
 
Sorry I'm just getting back here. I'm not sure what happened, I just missed this thread for days. Sorry, Helen!!

I think Claire described how the clot most likely formed. Sometimes if the sample isn't spun quickly enough after it's drawn, it can clot as well. Blood's natural tendency is to clot. And that's a fantastic thing.

The whole not seeing her sleeping thing is pretty normal. Tim actually gave me a tiny heart attack just yesterday. I've seen him sleep, but he's usually up and moving before I get near his cage and yesterday, I actually had to poke him and then all he did was sort of snort at me and continue to lay on his side and sleep. He's fine, but it probably took a few days off my life. LOL

I think that x-rays are a good idea. I'm concerned about the urine being all over her as well. Does it seem that she might have incontinence issues? Sorry if this was covered somewhere, I'm not clear on it.

Jen


 
Claire, I didn't get the blood test redone. Frankly I am kind of put off by the way I'm being treated by my vet and her office at the moment that I may drive myself and Penny to a different vet 25 miles away. My rescue says he's the best and if I want a second opinion I might as well go there. When I called back with my concerns, the vet didn't call me back. I had to leave my questions and concerns with the receptionist and she gave my vet the MSG. Then the vet did not call me back herself, but simply told the girl to tell me to give penny the baytril. The receptionist didn't call me back with THAT msg till the next day! I'm really annoyed with them at this pt!

If I get th xray I gotta go to this other vet and arrange a day. Driving in and out of the city requires mental preparation lol
 
Are you going to a vet in Westchester? I don't remember his name, but I've also been told he's the best ever (and I know he works with the NYC HRS)
 
So sorry about poor Penny! I hope you figure out what's going on with her.

If this is the vet I think it is, the one I use to take Zeus too before he passed away, I had similar experiences with them. Baytril for everything, and it was hard to get in contact with the main bunny vet, although one of the other vets was nice and quick about responding to my emails at least. The main bunny vet was the one doing Zeus' surgery when he passed away, and she didn't even come out to talk to me about it or anything - just had the techs and a different vet in the office tell me what happened.

I don't know what vet your thinking about for a second opinion, but if you can get there I love Catnip & Carrots in New Hyde park NY. It's a bit of a drive, but out of all the vets I've tried in this area they're by far my favorite.
 
Hey, Chelle, yeah the vet I am currently going to is that one. We PMed about Zeus' experience with them too. It's really quite concerning.

Laura, I think we're talking about the same one. Dr. stanzione? I think he's listed in Westchester on the NYC HRS website but when I googled, his practice is in like White Plains I believe.

I think Catnip is about the same distance from me, east instead of north. Have heard great things about them too! I might need to switch vets after this. I liked my place originally because of proximity, HRS recommended, and weekend hours... But it isn't working out 100% with them now.
 
cirrustwi wrote:
I think that x-rays are a good idea. I'm concerned about the urine being all over her as well. Does it seem that she might have incontinence issues? Sorry if this was covered somewhere, I'm not clear on it.
I don't know if it's incontinence... I think that she pees an awful lot and that normally a bunny with no issue wouldn't pee on themselves and/or if they get urine on themselves, they'd clean it off instead of dragging it around. She DOES get a fair amount of urine into her litter box, but she also pees a lot all over the place!

I have often reasoned with myself that perhaps I am imagining things and making up my mind to make this a medical issue because I refuse to accept that she just has awful litter habits. But when I look at the facts, something is off. A healthy normal rabbit wouldn't have so much urine on them that it'd stain their fur. She literally drags a wet tail around when she's had an "accident" and doesn't clean it off. I've picked her up on several occasions to attempt to clean her off and gotten my shirt totally set from the belly button down due to purely the amount of urine soaked up in her fur. It just doesn't seem right...

She also does this funny thing with her right leg. When I pick her up and hold her against me in the upright position, most rabbits equally use force in both their legs to support themselves against my body and maintain balance. She on the other hand, uses only her left leg and her right leg sticks out on the side in the air. I always have to tuck her leg back against my body so that she doesn't fall and so I have a firmer grip on her bum. I don't know if this is indicative of anything but it's odd.
 
Yep, the guy in White Plains/Westchester is the one I've heard of and I've only heard good things. I also think he's not as expensive as some (definitely not as expensive as my vet in CT).
 
I have heard the same thing. I don't remember exactly but I think I remember someone on the NYC Buns Yahoo group list said his office visit fee was only like $30-some. The one I go to right now charges me $85 for the visit alone. Tests, procedures, meds are all extra -- It's a small fortune.
 
OOF that is a lot! Our emergency vet's exam fee is $70--my regular vet's is $35, $25 for additional bunnies (for bonded pairs).
 
I know, she charges an unbelievable price for everything. Someone told me that she ordered Revolution from an Australian website. With shipping from the other side of the world, it still cost her less to buy than what I paid to my vet for Penny. :X

I really need to get myself a better vet...... :(

EDIT: I stand corrected: The Westchester/White plains vet is $68 a visit, and $190 for a 2 view xray. Better than $85 a visit I suppose. Er, I called my vet to ask for the cost of the xray at her office and of course, they have to check and call me back. lol - it's becoming quite a pattern!


 
I wonder if it makes sense to have an EC titer done. Urinary issues and weakness in a single hind leg can be early symptoms of EC. :(
 

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