I think Charlie has EC

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cheryl

cheryl

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Adelaide, , Australia
I had taken Charlie to the vet on the 8th June because she just didn't look her usual self...the vet had checked her over and said that she seemed fine because she was still eating and drinking and there didn't look to be any obvious signs of anything else wrong....so i took her home and just monitored her behaviour....when i had taken her to the vet it was a sunday..so by Tuesday she just looked very sad...she was eating still but i had noticed that she stopped eating her pellets,she ate a fewbut nothing like usual she also seemed she was lethargic as well and she was getting a wet bottom which made me start to think she might havecystitis....i knew something was up with her...so i made another appoitment to seethe vetthe nextmorning,i was lucky becauseDr Leewas actually booked out,but because i said that i suspectCharlie has a bladder infection and she needs medication..they then squeezed me inwhich was a Wednesday,he took her temp and she had a slight temperature,her temp was fine when she first had it checked...he couldn't do a urinalysis because her bladder was empty,i was to collect it myself when i seen her do a wee at home.

Charlie has also lost a bit of weight..she was weighed at the vet'sand she weighed 2.1kg's :(

Dr Lee gave Charlie a baytrill shot and then i'm to give her .2mls every day

Well on the Thursday i got a wee sample from Charlie,and i took it straight to the vet,hours later Dr Lee had called with the results...Charlie didn't have cystitis after all,her wee was ok,there was no blood or anything in it.....i was relieved...but that doesn't explain the wet bottom now.

It's Tuesday now and she is still on the baytrill...and she's still getting a wet bottom,if she had an infection the baytrill would have taken care of it by now.

Charlie is Pippi's daughter,and i can just see Pippi all over again..with him having died of complication's withEC....when Pippi's health started going downhill...it all started with a wet bottom that couldn't be cleared up with antibiotics:(



When Dr Lee called me with the urine results and when he told me that it's clear,i was happy,then he said yes that's the good news but then there is bad news,that doesn't explain the wet bottom and losing weight..he just said that we could be looking at another case of EC...i could not tell you how sad i felt because i just didn't want this to ever happen to another bunny of mine.

I just have to keep an eye on her at the moment

Cheryl
 
I'm so sorry for both you and Charlie. How terrible! Hopefully (I'm an optimist at heart) Charlie will improve. I really hope so...

I'll keep both you, your bunnies, and Charlie in my thoughts and prayers.

:pray:.
 
Thankyou for the well wishes for Charlie

When Pippi died because of EC,i worried so much in the beginning about my other bunnies,then i slowly put it in the back of my mind and i didn't think much more about it....you know it's there,but you try to not let it bother you....you know what i mean?

I don't know if this is just a coincidence or what,but last night as Charlie was cleaning her self,she kinda just fell over....but like i said i don't know if that was just a coincidence or not...i haven't seen any dragging of her legs yet...but then i didn't notice Pippi stumblingon his left leg for quite a while later...so..

Charlie's wet bottom that won't clear up has gotten me very worried..and her weight.

When Pippi had started taking his Panacur,Dr Lee then advised me to give it to all my bunnies....gosh that was quite expensive,and what a big bottle of panacur i had,anyway i thought that would have helped in some way...but i know that it cannot protect them anyway.

I still have some panacur left,so i'm thinking i should start Charlie on it...just in case
 
Get a urinalysis to check for crystals. Also have the EC titer done. I am having Smitten's redone and the urine checked. Get the vet to give you at least 28 days of Panacur. I use a piece of Banana if you can't get her to take it.

Smitten seems to be fine accept for the incontinence. She also drop weight from 9.5 lbs. to 8.5 lbs. I'm giving Sawyer, Smitten's companion, Panacur for 14 days.

Good luck. Pm me if you need to talk.
 
Oh Cheryl, I can't imagine what you're going through emotionally here. This is very scary. I hope to the Lord it's not. You do not deserve this and certainly, Charlie doesn't.

:pray: You will be in my thoughts and prayers, both of you!
 
Just a couple of thoughts regarding this thread and more specifically EC. There are only a couple of labs in the US that are capable of properly performing this titer....hopefully one "down under" can run this lab. To get the best overall picture of what is going on since there is only one true diagnosis for EC.....is that a series of titers performed over a period of time is the best indicator of an EC issue. Panacur (Fenbendazole) is the favored treatment along with others of the "bendazole" family of wormers. These drugs have a difficult time penetrating the blood/brain barrier. I have treated for as long as 60 days with the general thinking that during that time the working blood level of the drug will have to push some thru the barrier. Another possible treatment is being investigated (and I recently used it here briefly but couldn't stop the renal failure that commenced prior to the treatment) is another horse drug called Marquis. This drug can penetrate the barrier in a horse...and since a horse and a rabbit are so much alike and the fact that the organism causing the problem in the horse is closely related to the problem causing organism in a rabbit....on paper anyway, Marquis has quite a potential. Time will tell.

Something that could be causing this concern is still a UTI or even sludge/stones. Not all bacteria are sensitive to Baytril (and the number is shrinking all the time). It is possible that it's a bacteria that is overlooked in most cultures. There are several aerobic bacteria we have seen recently that are seen sub-clinically and usually pretty much ignored...but some of these bugs are getting a little testy and causing problems. In this case, I think a urinalysis using a procedure called cystocentesis would be in order. This is the only way to get a "virgin" culture of urine as it is extracted directly from the bladder. And it's possible that it is an infection by anaerobic bacteria in which case Baytril would most likely be ineffective.

Randy
 
Pla...Charlie had a urinalysis done last thursday,which came back clear..the only thing is that it wasn't done by inserting the needle into her bladder..which like Randy said..that's the best way to do it....so i'll probably have to get another one done....gosh it reminds me when Pippi had so many urinalysis's test's through all those months.

Thanks Crystal....i just really hope it's something else.

Thanks for the excellent info as usual Randy....i'm still worried though because it's her weight issue as well.....i'm going to be keeping a close eye on her weight now as well...and i will also ask about Marquis when i next see Dr Lee.

I forgot to mention that a few days after her first vet visit she started getting watery eyes...Dr Lee said that it was most probably caused because she wasn't feeling well...and after two days of baytril it cleared up...but she continues to have a wet bottom.

I'm not sure now if i should keep her on the baytril still or not,i suppose i'll just keep her on it for a while...gosh.. i have a whole container of baytril left still.

I also have critical care in case i need it...lol i didn't realize that it came in a sachet thing..i was surprised.

Anyway,i'll be monitoring her very closley for now on.....i was so hoping that none of my other bunnies never got EC again..especially because the vets here don't know much about it either....gosh it was hard going through it with Pippi.


 
Thanks Pla.....i just think it so weird that the vet's i had asked when Pippi was alive,not one had any idea....and by then he was showing all the symptom's of EC so they said it wouldn't be really worth having the test done anyway....so i guess they didn't worry about finding a lab then.

So when i go back to see Dr Lee,i'll ask him again about finding a lab that does those tests.....really i just thought all labs would do all kinds of tests...but i guess not :?

I would really rather have her tested...even though i have this awful feeling


 
I believe Randy said there are only a few labs here in the US that will do the test. My vet said tonight that there is just so much controversy about this illness. And so much that isn't known about this illness too.

What one of the vet schools? Perhaps they can do the test? Just a thought.
 
Thanks guys,

I really hope it's not EC either,but something is telling me otherwise.

I called Dr Lee this evening to let him know that Charlie's wet bottom isn't clearing up....he said to boost her baytril to .5 mls instead of .2mls....she will probably go back to the vet next thursday and i will have to get her a scan done,to see if anything elseis going on..

My poor Charlie girl
 
I got home about an hour ago...it's 6:30pm here just now,and Charlie was the first thing i checked...she was just sitting there looking sad...i know that's how bunnies do look when they are quiet but most times you can always pick the difference between the two kinds of sad....she looked like when a bunny has gas..you know how they just sit there looking sorry?...so i offered her some pellets to make sure she was ok...but no she wouldn't eat them...so i went and got some veggies...luckily she ate a bit of that but just didn't seem really interested at all...she also ate a bit of carrot but left some which is unusual...she's not herself.

I think i might make up some critical care for her and see if she will take that.....i was just looking at the instructions and it said to mix one part of critical care with two parts of water :?.....ummm i think i will just make a bit up my way...i'm sure it will still turn out the same way....Dr Lee hadsaid that i can make it to the consistancy that i want.....actually i just opened the packet and it smells quite nice..it just looks like crushed up pellets to me with other stuff added in.

You know when i have heard on this forum about other people using critical care i had always thought that it was some kind of a paste or something,i never realized that it had to be made up.

I have to go give her a butt bath soon...and she doesn't like that at all....i put the heater on as soon as i got home so the house will be nice and warm for her.

I hate this..you know...i hate it when bunnies aren't well,i stress out to much...and with Charlie like thisi see Pippi :(
 
Hang in there. You are doing a great job. Critical Care is great stuff. You are right that you can pretty much mix it to your (and your bun's) preferred consistency. Sometimes, if I've got a bun who is not eating or drinking I make it more watery to try to get more fluids in him/her. You may need to syringe feed it. It would require a large syringe that will alow a paste-consistency through. If you don't have that, you may want to get one or 2 from your vet or a feed store that handles supplies for larger animals should have them. I keep 2 on hand in case one would break. (I've had bunnies eat the end off syringes :shock:.)
 
My vet says the critical care should be about the consistency of pancake batter. It will continue to absorb the water for a while, so I mix it up and then let it sit for a few minutes and then add more water if I need to.

Headpets for Charlie.:pet:
 
Thankyou to you both,i much appreciate the advice:)

I actually did have a reallybig syringe left from Pippi....but somehow i have misplaced it.....so i ended up making the critical care but i tried to make it thin so it would fit in the syringe...now that was a pain...of course as you all know it wouldn't go up the syringe....so i tried one last time and i did get like half in the syringe....my son Jeremy was holding Charlie for me and i went to give it to her....but for some reason it was stuck..i lifted the syringe a bit to test it.....hehe i didn't realize it was pointed towards Jeremy's face because as i pushed down on it....it squirted in his face lol...gosh i laughed so much...poor Charlie was wondering what was going on.

I just wish Dr Lee was consulting so i could get Charlie in much quicker.
 
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