Baby Tans

[Chrisdoc]

Oh, he is just adorable, love the way he moves. When you say rustiness, what do you mean...sorry but this is all new to me and it is sooo interesting.

 

[MagPie]

Ooooh too bad she will be so far from me haha. Probably a good thing. Good luck with her.

I'd watch the videos but it takes my computer and connection forever and a day just to watch one. -_-

 

[DharmaBuns]

Ooooh, I love the video of Dino. He looks GORGEOUS on the table. I really like how he moves. Bummer that he had a bit of molt going on at the time but I bet he's going to be killer at Nationals. How exciting!!!

 

[woahlookitsme]

Here is what I mean when I say rustiness. When chocolates are molting they will turn this rusty copper color and that is what is smack dab on his head that was staring at travis lol

Here are some pics of my blue tan baby. The other four are said to be alive and well

 

[hannah_biota]

Squeee that baby is the cutest thing ever!

 

[woahlookitsme]

I know!! I melted when he/she started snuggling my hand in the second to last picture

 

[woahlookitsme]

Rest In Peace Dino. You and your rusty spot can now get as many Best In Shows over the rainbow

 

[Chrisdoc]

Sarah, I just had to go back and take another look and I saw you´d answered my question...you can´t know how sorry I am, he was a beautiful boy and he´ll be racing down the table somewhere else now.

That blue tan baby is so cute....and cuddling into your hand, that is so lovely.

 

[zaogirlo5]

Ugh, that's awful! There are a lot of breeders that put that guy up on a pedestal but I think that he also did a lot of damage to the breed as a whole.

Is M still going to buy him? I'm just so so sorry about this whole situation. If you bred Sam and only kept her offspring that did NOT have white toenails..I imagine that it would still be possible to show up in future generations?

Also, what if Sam had not had white toenails and her siblings had (and were culled/not bred) - would she still be a carrier?

Hopefully these questions aren't too painful for you right now. I'm just very curious as I've had white toenails pop up in one litter and was concerned about using the siblings that didn't have them.

Hey guys, Kelly here.

I have raised Tans since the early-mid 90s and have produced hundreds of Tans in that time. I have had two white toenails. One was on a blue and out of non-Joe Kim rabbits. White or light toenails happen fairly commonly on all dilutes of all breeds. I have only had one black with a white toenail. It was promptly terminally culled. That rabbit was out of two non-Joe Kim rabbits from one breeder. I will absolutely not bring the breeder's name into this discussion (I respect this person a lot and in general will not breeder bash), but I bought 11 rabbits from that breeder and had to cull all but 3 for white spots and/or white toenails either on the actual rabbits or the rabbits they produced. Ironically, the three rabbits from him/her I did not have issues with were of a pure Joe Kim background. The mother of the rabbit of Sarah's with the white toenail is from the same breeder that I had issues with. So I wouldn't blame poor Sinatra. Could it have been him? Sure. But there is no way to know for sure and in this situation it seems unlikely.

I think one thing we all need to remember is that Tans are not a finished product. Like ALL breeds, they are continually a work in progress. DQs and other not fun things will pop up, period. That will never change. It will get better over time as we continue to improve our gene pool through tough culling. It has already gotten much better than it was 10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago when I got my first Tan.

Joe Kim was instrumental in revolutionizing the breed. I know I sound biased, but I'm honestly not saying that as a friend of his. I'm saying that as someone who saw it happen. Yes, adding imports added some issues. But the pros clearly outweighed the cons. The Tans you have fallen in love with (the sleek, flashy showy rabbit) would not exist without Joe. Instead, we would likely still have cobby, Florida White typed Tans hobbling awkwardly down the show table. The worst Tans I see on a show table today are better than the best Tans I saw on a show table back when I first began. Tans rarely won Best in Show before Joe Kim, the ATRSC was much smaller and breed numbers at shows were low as well.

Also, you can't avoid imports. ALL Tans have import lines. ALL of them, even if they do not show in the pedigree. Tans are originally imports and the imports that came into this country again in the early 2000s have been successfully disseminated throughout the country. You cannot raise Tans without having import lines. I do not think white toenails are very common with imports at this point. It's mostly been culled out and my experience has been that those who have white toenails or spots pop up have the aforementioned breeder in common.

Are there problems that are more prevalent in Tans? Of course. But really, only butting teeth and split penis. And even those are not common problems. But it does happen. All breeds have their issues. Rex are prone to sore hocks. Dwarfs get butting teeth (not to mention the awful birth defects). I could go on and on.

Sorry if I seem defensive. I just don't want my name (in a public forum) associated with a problem that absolutely does not exist in my herd. Is my herd perfect? Definitely not. But this particular problem just isn't a problem I have.

- Kelly

 

[woahlookitsme]

Kelly! I have wondered where you went as I saw you used to be a member when I joined. Thank you so much for sharing! I definitely took what you and others suggested into consideration and it makes me sad just looking at Sam because as she grows she just gets more gorgeous every day. Thank you so much for helping me with this and it definitely changed my mindset when you said it wasn't prevalent in your herd. I do thank joe for making tans the beautiful animals they are today. I just wish Sam didn't have white toenails lol oh well now all i can do is just make something better

 

[zaogirlo5]

Yeah, I've been at home sick for a few days so I've been bored and randomly got on here today. It's been a while for sure! I know we talked and we're good. I just know others reading this were not privy to our conversation, so I wanted to post something since my name was associated with the problem. Again, I'm happy to admit the faults in my own herd. It's not perfect. This just isn't one I have thank god!

 

[woahlookitsme]

I totally understand! You should come on more often lol not that I'm saying get sick more often but well you know what I mean

 

[majorv]

That's interesting to know. After what Wade told us (when he discovered Sam's white toenails) we just assumed it came from Sinatra...never thought about the other parent.

I agree that Tans look much sleeker and refined than they used to, and I know that we would still have big, heavy boned Tans (we had one of them early on) if not for Joe and others who brought the European Tans over.

Thanks, Kelly.

 

[wendymac]

So you're going to sell Sam? Do you think she'd like a hopping job?

 

[woahlookitsme]

She will still be for sale and as a pet only. Im sure she would love it! She wasnt as hyper as her brother but I can see if I can start her on some small jumps this weekend and let you know how she does

 

[zaogirlo5]

I'm supposed to be on the lookout for a local 4-Her for a hopping Tan. They would prefer a buck, but I can call them and see if they would take a doe. Can you let me know how much you want and I get you guys in touch with one another? You can email me privately. I don't think they have email, but I will ask when I call.

 

[DharmaBuns]

Hey guys, Kelly here.

I have raised Tans since the early-mid 90s and have produced hundreds of Tans in that time. I have had two white toenails. One was on a blue and out of non-Joe Kim rabbits. White or light toenails happen fairly commonly on all dilutes of all breeds. I have only had one black with a white toenail. It was promptly terminally culled. That rabbit was out of two non-Joe Kim rabbits from one breeder. I will absolutely not bring the breeder's name into this discussion (I respect this person a lot and in general will not breeder bash), but I bought 11 rabbits from that breeder and had to cull all but 3 for white spots and/or white toenails either on the actual rabbits or the rabbits they produced. Ironically, the three rabbits from him/her I did not have issues with were of a pure Joe Kim background. The mother of the rabbit of Sarah's with the white toenail is from the same breeder that I had issues with. So I wouldn't blame poor Sinatra. Could it have been him? Sure. But there is no way to know for sure and in this situation it seems unlikely.

I think one thing we all need to remember is that Tans are not a finished product. Like ALL breeds, they are continually a work in progress. DQs and other not fun things will pop up, period. That will never change. It will get better over time as we continue to improve our gene pool through tough culling. It has already gotten much better than it was 10 years ago, let alone 20 years ago when I got my first Tan.

Joe Kim was instrumental in revolutionizing the breed. I know I sound biased, but I'm honestly not saying that as a friend of his. I'm saying that as someone who saw it happen. Yes, adding imports added some issues. But the pros clearly outweighed the cons. The Tans you have fallen in love with (the sleek, flashy showy rabbit) would not exist without Joe. Instead, we would likely still have cobby, Florida White typed Tans hobbling awkwardly down the show table. The worst Tans I see on a show table today are better than the best Tans I saw on a show table back when I first began. Tans rarely won Best in Show before Joe Kim, the ATRSC was much smaller and breed numbers at shows were low as well.

Also, you can't avoid imports. ALL Tans have import lines. ALL of them, even if they do not show in the pedigree. Tans are originally imports and the imports that came into this country again in the early 2000s have been successfully disseminated throughout the country. You cannot raise Tans without having import lines. I do not think white toenails are very common with imports at this point. It's mostly been culled out and my experience has been that those who have white toenails or spots pop up have the aforementioned breeder in common.

Are there problems that are more prevalent in Tans? Of course. But really, only butting teeth and split penis. And even those are not common problems. But it does happen. All breeds have their issues. Rex are prone to sore hocks. Dwarfs get butting teeth (not to mention the awful birth defects). I could go on and on.

Sorry if I seem defensive. I just don't want my name (in a public forum) associated with a problem that absolutely does not exist in my herd. Is my herd perfect? Definitely not. But this particular problem just isn't a problem I have.

- Kelly

Kelly, this was all really interesting information and I hope you didn't think I was bashing you or your herd. It wasn't my intent, trust me. I think you raise beautiful rabbits (that's why I bought one from you!)

I'm curious though, where do white toenails come from? Were they brought in by a single person or is it something that has always been in the breed?

 

[wendymac]

Sarah, is she 6 months old yet? I found out at PaSRBA that they shouldn't actually jump until then, that you just do harness training with them. Oh, and they can run up and down the stairs in your house. Just not actual jumps (which doesn't make sense to me, but I'm a newb. lol).

 

[woahlookitsme]

She was born 11/12 so no. I have a small set up that doesnt have really high jumps. What i do is walk over them and call. Here is a picture of my other bun Diesel(gunners full brother that I no longer have) jumping over it

 

[Korr_and_Sophie]

Sarah, is she 6 months old yet? I found out at PaSRBA that they shouldn't actually jump until then, that you just do harness training with them. Oh, and they can run up and down the stairs in your house. Just not actual jumps (which doesn't make sense to me, but I'm a newb. lol).

We do jumps with younger rabbits. They have to be about 3 months before attending anything though. Until 9 months old, it is shorter jumps and they are limited in high jump. It usually takes a little while before a rabbit is jumping higher anyway.