JimD
Well-Known Member
Sending prayers and good thoughts to you and Winston.
ray:
I'm not in big favor of motility drugs...better to wait a bit at least.
ray:I'm not in big favor of motility drugs...better to wait a bit at least.
Winston Not Feeling Well
- Thread starter SOOOSKA
- Start date
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Pet_Bunny
Well-Known Member
Oh Susan and poor Winston. :tears2:
Did the vet identify what was causing the blockage?
Stanray:
Did the vet identify what was causing the blockage?
Stan
ray:
Haley
Well-Known Member
Lots of prayers for Susan, Chris and Winston. He's such a little baby- he's so lucky to have a mommy and daddy who love him so much.
Tumnus is saying prayers for his cousin, Winston:
We all are rooting for the little man to get better soon!
Tumnus is saying prayers for his cousin, Winston:
We all are rooting for the little man to get better soon!
SOOOSKA
Well-Known Member
Well we got the "Little Guy" home. We brought Vega with us to the Vets to pick up Winston, my goodness you should have seen Vega, she literally would not leave his side. She had her head right over him, it was so cute. He wandered to the door of the carrier for his Daddy to give him rubbies on the head.
He has eaten some hay and gone Poops about 8, they are not round more longish, I thinkbecause of the "Barium" they are much lighter in colour. He has been moving around quite a bit.
Stan the Vet did not say what was causing the blockage. When she talked to Chris this morning she said it may be fur or something else he ate. They don't chew carpet so I know it isn't that.
Thanks for the picture Haley.
And thanks to everyone for your prayers. Let's keep praying that he is back to normal real soon.
Susanray:
He has eaten some hay and gone Poops about 8, they are not round more longish, I thinkbecause of the "Barium" they are much lighter in colour. He has been moving around quite a bit.
Stan the Vet did not say what was causing the blockage. When she talked to Chris this morning she said it may be fur or something else he ate. They don't chew carpet so I know it isn't that.
Thanks for the picture Haley.
And thanks to everyone for your prayers. Let's keep praying that he is back to normal real soon.
Susan
ray:
ra7751
Well-Known Member
Hi Susan,
What was the explanation of the blockage? Are the rads digital? If so, get a copy and email them to me. DO NOT use motility drugs.....I never use them under any circumstances.....and if there is a blockage, things get bad quickly if they are used. I am concerned a bit about the barium. I understand what they are doing. A barium is used in many animals to check for hernia type conditions or other issues with GI transit. I have never heard of a vet usingbarium in a rabbit. It is an alkaline metallic compound that "lights up" radiographs. I am not quite sure I would want that stuff in a rabbit's gut. I will do some talking with my vets about this. I have never used barium and I have treated some really bad gut issues.
For right now, don't push the Critical Care too much until you find out what the "blockage" actually is. If it's an ingesta impaction, I can walk you thru a procedure to break up the mass. I would concentate more on hydration....by mouth and sub-q (IV or IO would be better if you have that capability). We have a hard and fast rule in rescue.....hydration before nutrition. A dehydrated gut can't digest food. And Critical Care just absorbs huge amounts of water....it can be dehydrating itself. If food is being forced into a slowed gut, that will build pressure in the upper GI and that will walk you into more problems. And not meaning to be harsh, but an animal will succumb to dehydration well before succumbing to lack of food. Hydration first.
If it is an ingesta blockage, I have used fresh squeezed pineapple juice....not canned, bottled or concentrate.....I buy the real piece of fruit and hand squeeze the juice. There is a lot of debate on using this process....but we have used it here frequently and successfully.
You can use human infant rehydration Pedialyte for oral rehydration. A product many wildlife rehabbers that do not have SQ, IV or IO capability is a product called Electro Stat. This can be purchased online at http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com Really good stuff. If you have the capability of adminstering sub-q fluids, you would want to use an isotonic or slightly hypertonic solution such as Lactated Ringers Solution.
Now, if the blockage is not ingesta caused....then you are looking at some type of tumor like mass. There is usually only one response to this condition....risky surgery. I have a friend that has a rabbit that grew a large fatty mass in his abdomen that resulted in a very sluggish GI. He did survive this risky surgery required to remove the mass.
My response if he were here.....and assuming an ingesta impaction......get him hydrated.....oral and subq/IV fluids. Remember that fresh greens contain a lot of water. Give him Pedialyte. Order some Electro Stat for additional hydration support.Geta pineapple andoffer the juice. Don't sweat the food right now. Offer a buffet but don't stress him out by forcing food. Get him on heat. A GI slowdown will many times cause a drop in body temperature. A heating pad on lowest setting usually works well...but under supervision as the pad can still get very hot even on low. Allow him to move as much as possible without stressing him. I would probably offer some pain meds....most likely either Tramdol or Buprenex. These drugs tend to slow the gut down a bit....but so does pain. Many times just the relaxation from any pain will allow the gut to start moving. Oval (simethicone) can cause a gut to slow down too. Great for gas. I would also use a probiotic such as Bene Bac to help support the pH in the gut as well as responding to the barium.
We also useB Comp (a vitamin) injection to help stimulate the appetite.
Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you or your vet need additional information. Been in this situation before. But we need to know what the impaction is in order to know how to properly respond to it.
Randy
What was the explanation of the blockage? Are the rads digital? If so, get a copy and email them to me. DO NOT use motility drugs.....I never use them under any circumstances.....and if there is a blockage, things get bad quickly if they are used. I am concerned a bit about the barium. I understand what they are doing. A barium is used in many animals to check for hernia type conditions or other issues with GI transit. I have never heard of a vet usingbarium in a rabbit. It is an alkaline metallic compound that "lights up" radiographs. I am not quite sure I would want that stuff in a rabbit's gut. I will do some talking with my vets about this. I have never used barium and I have treated some really bad gut issues.
For right now, don't push the Critical Care too much until you find out what the "blockage" actually is. If it's an ingesta impaction, I can walk you thru a procedure to break up the mass. I would concentate more on hydration....by mouth and sub-q (IV or IO would be better if you have that capability). We have a hard and fast rule in rescue.....hydration before nutrition. A dehydrated gut can't digest food. And Critical Care just absorbs huge amounts of water....it can be dehydrating itself. If food is being forced into a slowed gut, that will build pressure in the upper GI and that will walk you into more problems. And not meaning to be harsh, but an animal will succumb to dehydration well before succumbing to lack of food. Hydration first.
If it is an ingesta blockage, I have used fresh squeezed pineapple juice....not canned, bottled or concentrate.....I buy the real piece of fruit and hand squeeze the juice. There is a lot of debate on using this process....but we have used it here frequently and successfully.
You can use human infant rehydration Pedialyte for oral rehydration. A product many wildlife rehabbers that do not have SQ, IV or IO capability is a product called Electro Stat. This can be purchased online at http://www.foxvalleynutrition.com Really good stuff. If you have the capability of adminstering sub-q fluids, you would want to use an isotonic or slightly hypertonic solution such as Lactated Ringers Solution.
Now, if the blockage is not ingesta caused....then you are looking at some type of tumor like mass. There is usually only one response to this condition....risky surgery. I have a friend that has a rabbit that grew a large fatty mass in his abdomen that resulted in a very sluggish GI. He did survive this risky surgery required to remove the mass.
My response if he were here.....and assuming an ingesta impaction......get him hydrated.....oral and subq/IV fluids. Remember that fresh greens contain a lot of water. Give him Pedialyte. Order some Electro Stat for additional hydration support.Geta pineapple andoffer the juice. Don't sweat the food right now. Offer a buffet but don't stress him out by forcing food. Get him on heat. A GI slowdown will many times cause a drop in body temperature. A heating pad on lowest setting usually works well...but under supervision as the pad can still get very hot even on low. Allow him to move as much as possible without stressing him. I would probably offer some pain meds....most likely either Tramdol or Buprenex. These drugs tend to slow the gut down a bit....but so does pain. Many times just the relaxation from any pain will allow the gut to start moving. Oval (simethicone) can cause a gut to slow down too. Great for gas. I would also use a probiotic such as Bene Bac to help support the pH in the gut as well as responding to the barium.
We also useB Comp (a vitamin) injection to help stimulate the appetite.
Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you or your vet need additional information. Been in this situation before. But we need to know what the impaction is in order to know how to properly respond to it.
Randy
Luvmyzoocrew
Well-Known Member
ray:
kherrmann3
Well-Known Member
I am sorry to hear that Winston isn't feeling well. We're all sending him good healing vibes from this end. :clover:
Oh Susan, I am so sorry to hear this. Poor Winston - and poor you and Chris. I know how worried you must be .
Bless Vega's little heart, snuggling up to her man to protect him!
How is he doing now? Any more poops?
sending prayers to you guys
Jan
.Bless Vega's little heart, snuggling up to her man to protect him!
How is he doing now? Any more poops?
sending prayers to you guys
Jan
SOOOSKA
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for your thoughts and prayers.
Jan he has done more poops, they are getting a little bigger but still a funny colour.
Randy, I'm not sure what kind of x-rays they took of Winston, and I would doubt they would give me a copy. If they did they'd probably charge me some rediculous amoumt for them. Gosh they are even charging us to go back on Monday for a follow up. Geez I wish Chris was a Vetrinariun, we'd be rich. Also they never siad what the impaction was.
Susan
Jan he has done more poops, they are getting a little bigger but still a funny colour.
Randy, I'm not sure what kind of x-rays they took of Winston, and I would doubt they would give me a copy. If they did they'd probably charge me some rediculous amoumt for them. Gosh they are even charging us to go back on Monday for a follow up. Geez I wish Chris was a Vetrinariun, we'd be rich. Also they never siad what the impaction was.
Susan
Luvmyzoocrew
Well-Known Member
susan i am suprised that they are charging you for a follow up visit, that is usally waived for something major like this. I sure hope they dont charge you
ra7751
Well-Known Member
Hi Susan,
I don't know how the legal system works in Canada....but here, if you pay for the rads, you are entitled to a copy of that or any labs that you pay for. I fully realize that clinics are a business and should be run as such...but you have certain rights and expectations as a paying customer. I have no problem "calling out" the powers that be at any business if they don't meet my expectations. And I don't expect anything out of the ordinary. But if I pay for something, everything that goes with the charges goes with me....and that is with all my business dealings. That also includes a detailed diagnosis and explanation of services provided that are included in the charges. I would do back and "insist" on getting any information you desire just to prove a point. If they are unwilling, you have the final word. As bad as the economy is all over, I can't believe any business would be willing to lose business by not meeting minimum expectations that are not unusual.
Push the hydration. The "funny" color of the poops are from the Critical Care....much like lots of oat hay will produce a different colored (much lighter) poop. The main thing is that something is moving out of there. Hydration is the best way to overcome an ingesta impaction. Be careful with the Critical Care...as I mentioned, it in itself is somewhat dehydrating. I only use it when adminstering supplemental fluids. Get a probiotic in that good to help stabilize the pH....Bene Bac is best but non dairy acidophilus will do in a pinch. And as I mentioned....keep him as warm as possible and moving as much as possible. Keep us posted.
Randy
I don't know how the legal system works in Canada....but here, if you pay for the rads, you are entitled to a copy of that or any labs that you pay for. I fully realize that clinics are a business and should be run as such...but you have certain rights and expectations as a paying customer. I have no problem "calling out" the powers that be at any business if they don't meet my expectations. And I don't expect anything out of the ordinary. But if I pay for something, everything that goes with the charges goes with me....and that is with all my business dealings. That also includes a detailed diagnosis and explanation of services provided that are included in the charges. I would do back and "insist" on getting any information you desire just to prove a point. If they are unwilling, you have the final word. As bad as the economy is all over, I can't believe any business would be willing to lose business by not meeting minimum expectations that are not unusual.
Push the hydration. The "funny" color of the poops are from the Critical Care....much like lots of oat hay will produce a different colored (much lighter) poop. The main thing is that something is moving out of there. Hydration is the best way to overcome an ingesta impaction. Be careful with the Critical Care...as I mentioned, it in itself is somewhat dehydrating. I only use it when adminstering supplemental fluids. Get a probiotic in that good to help stabilize the pH....Bene Bac is best but non dairy acidophilus will do in a pinch. And as I mentioned....keep him as warm as possible and moving as much as possible. Keep us posted.
Randy
SOOOSKA
Well-Known Member
Chris asked today and they said it would be $50.00ssd:. I guess the $700.00+ they charged today wasn't enough.
That's why I am going to be calling Vets in my area next week and ask what they would charge for the things we had done to Winston. I'll be real curious to see what they charge. Their are 3 that I know of in my area that specialize in Exotics. Unfortunately one wasn't working yesterday and the other 2 couldn't see him for hours. At the time I knew Winston was quite sick and getting worse and I didn't want to take the chance of waiting for him to see a Vet.
Susan
ssd:. I guess the $700.00+ they charged today wasn't enough.That's why I am going to be calling Vets in my area next week and ask what they would charge for the things we had done to Winston. I'll be real curious to see what they charge. Their are 3 that I know of in my area that specialize in Exotics. Unfortunately one wasn't working yesterday and the other 2 couldn't see him for hours. At the time I knew Winston was quite sick and getting worse and I didn't want to take the chance of waiting for him to see a Vet.
Susan
ra7751
Well-Known Member
Obviously Winston should be the priority at this point....but there should be some type of veterinary board in your province. Here in NC the state agriculture department is responsible for all veterinary medicine. File a complaint. Might not do you any good at this point....but sometimes you shouldcomplain for something that hasn't happened yet. Part of the mentality in the medical world, both humans and animals, has traditionally been that the general public isn't educated enough to digest medical information. That has changed in both human and animal focus. I have been fortunate over the years to be mentored by the "cream of the crop".....teaching vets that would share labs and technical information with me....and explain the pros and cons of potential treatments. That is how I learned what I know about rabbits and many other species....and learned the differentials in various diagnostics andtreatments. The bottom line in all of this is that you are, when it comes down to it, havethe final say in the medical treatment for your animal. I, for one, believe that most people do have the ability to digest this information if it is properly presented. Some may defer all decisions to the discretion of the doctor....and that is not a problem. And many, like me, want the "rest of the story" and get all the information available so that an informed decision can me made. My feeling is that you have paid hard earned money for those labs and those results and documentation legally is your property. Just my opinion.
Healing vibes headed to Winston.
Randy
Healing vibes headed to Winston.
Randy
Haley
Well-Known Member
Susan, how is Winston today?
SOOOSKA
Well-Known Member
Hi Haley,
Winston has eaten some greens and pellets. We have syringed him water as we are not sure if he's drinking.
He's moving around alot and acting normal.
Poops are still smaller than normal but at least he's going.
Susan
Winston has eaten some greens and pellets. We have syringed him water as we are not sure if he's drinking.
He's moving around alot and acting normal.
Poops are still smaller than normal but at least he's going.
Susan
mouse_chalk
Well-Known Member
I'm really glad that Winston seems to be feeling a bit better! I hope he continues to improve....
Pet_Bunny
Well-Known Member
I spoke to some of the breeders in Edmonton about your situation and they are saying very much whatRandy has been suggesting about treatment. I would have no problem calling them up if something was wrong with Pebbles or Bebe.
I have seen several Vets in Edmonton. Many do include a follow up check-up at no or very little cost. All the vets that I have been to, I have been able to get copies or photo copies of the medical records for my treatments. Even when I switch doctors, copies have been sent over to the new doctor by the previous doctor. Yes they are running a business as I do get yearly reminders for check-ups.
I have seen several Vets in Edmonton. Many do include a follow up check-up at no or very little cost. All the vets that I have been to, I have been able to get copies or photo copies of the medical records for my treatments. Even when I switch doctors, copies have been sent over to the new doctor by the previous doctor. Yes they are running a business as I do get yearly reminders for check-ups.
Pleased to hear that our little Winston is eating on his own, and pooping. Hopefully, this is the start of his recovery!
Jan
Jan
I hope the little guy continues to do better.....ray:
ray:
AngelnSnuffy
Well-Known Member
Wonderful documentary, Randy! Thank you so very much for that info!
Susan, keep us posted, I'm so worried. I hope little Winston is good to go.
Susan, keep us posted, I'm so worried. I hope little Winston is good to go
.
