Why are ethical breeding standards always different? (what are your ethical breeding standards)

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peanutdabunny

peanutdabunny

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Hi y'all!
I've been really into breeding (virtually) and now can understand breeders a lot better! In the game I gave *mostly big cages, ( since I have no clue how to get rid of the wire bottom cages)
I would love to stop the hate to breeders as I have found some amazing ones! (and some not so great ones) One that I found that I loved was freeroaming her whole colony inside her home! The bunnies learned how to take part in a colony, and they end up bonding better because of the exposure to other bunnies! The mothers also get a break from the babies who follow them around everywhere when they are stuck in a cage togeather. I love this new style of breeding and really hope it becomes more mainstream. The bunnies are fed an amazing diet from the start already getting veggies and such, which in my opionion is better because then the bunny is used to it! The bunnies are all increadbly social since they are handled from day one, most of there bunnies like to snuggle and be with humans. This behavior is not like most rabbits. So by reading there whole site I realized that breeders should also work on the social aspect of breeding. We need to make sure we can keep all the amazing colors, but wouldnt be amazing if they could all have amazing personailtys. The way that person breeders reminds me more of a rabbit breeder. Im glad that we are slowly moving foward. I will never condemn the hating of ethical breeders. We need them so that we can have good rabbit genetics and don't end up with back yard breeder genetics. Another breeder I would like to mention is hooks hollands (from youtube) Even though they are in cages they get tons of freeroaming time! The cages arent bad either, they have solid vinyl flooring which I love! One of my favorite KW cages! They even have their own barn. I really hope breeders can start to move foward on breeding numbers, but breeding really quality bunnies. Just an idea for after covid ends, maybe hold times where people can socialze with your bunnies ( good adults that you have made sure are great with bunnies) if you dont have the time to breed bunnies. I think also that the more we breed better bunnies the more people will reconize them as family pets like cats and dogs. I think bunnies are still sterotyped because of "bad" personalitys in rabbits in the past. But these new rabbits act like dogs! They like to follow you around and come give kisses and like to sit on your lap. If others see this personality in rabbits they will be more practiced in vet schools to because of the growing popularity. If I was to become a breeder I would love to breed for amazing personailtes for rabbits, and hopefully have a functioning colony. Maybe this is controversial but I really dont think it is. I would like to know your standereds of ethical breeding, and if you could link me to some websites that'd be great! I know we will all have different opinions on rabbit breeding, and thats okay, make sure to not fight in the comments. To the rabbit breeders of the world, what do you think of this?

I hope that breeding will be amazing soon, as it is going in that direction. Better bunnies means happier bunnies and humans! (I think that maybe they will be dumped less, but I dont know)

Also, I'd like to know more about wire bottom cages, like the pros the cons, why people use them. and if it is a myth that bunnies get sore hocks from them. No Hate to wire bottom cage users, just want some advice :)
 
I have my bun in a wire bottom cage. I have been using it for three months no sore hocks yet, but I am keeping a look out for any beginnings of it. I have resting pads in the cage that cover most of the cage do he is on plastic more than wire ( I have also tried putting a small amount of hay on the resting pads, but he just digs it onto the wire and it falls through). I don’t know how to post links or I would post a link to Wabbitat which is the brand of wire bottom cage I have. I Know it is kind of small , but he comes out often.
 

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CrazyChickenGirl said:
I have my bun in a wire bottom cage. I have been using it for three months no sore hocks yet, but I am keeping a look out for any beginnings of it. I have resting pads in the cage that cover most of the cage do he is on plastic more than wire ( I have also tried putting a small amount of hay on the resting pads, but he just digs it onto the wire and it falls through). I don’t know how to post links or I would post a link to Wabbitat which is the brand of wire bottom cage I have. I Know it is kind of small , but he comes out often.
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Aww so cute!
 
This was a very interesting read and I think you said this very well, but I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with ethical breeders, and most bun owners are only against BYBs. The reason some rabbit owners prefer rescues and don't encourage adopting from breeders is since because of BYBs, there are SO many rabbits without homes in the world- and most of the time, these rabbits don't have the best health and temperament, since they weren't bred for it. Ethical breeders won't be churning out rabbits, most of them will be breeding to better the rabbit itself and only adopting out rabbits that don't "make the cut". And most educated bun owners won't "hate" these breeders.

Also, I think I know which breeder you are talking about who free-roams her entire colony in her house. I, actually, have very recently adopted a bun from her. (If I am right on who the breeder is of course. I would PM you with the specific breeder but I don't see the option) Although she seems like an ideal breeder at first glance, with the help of some experienced breeders and rabbit owners like @zuppa, @SableSteel, @JBun, @Preitler and @majorv I realized that she is actually just a novice. She definitely cares for her rabbits a LOT and has the best intentions behind all of this, but she is fairly new to breeding (she has only been in it for about a year) and she isn't getting everything right yet. For one, the diet she feeds to her buns isn't actually ideal. It's great that they are having veggies so early, but the babies and the mothers need more protein. Plus the prices are really high, (making me think she's partly trying to profit) and in visiting her to pick up my bun, I found she does not actually free-roam her colony in all of her house. They are definitely getting MORE than enough space, but the rabbits are sort of seperated. The father, for example, is always in a separate room than the girls, with a few babies there too. There is nothing wrong with this, it just goes to show that not everything will be exactly as you expect/as shown online.
The bun I got from this breeder was SUPER friendly, and not picky at all when it comes to food. I do not regret getting her at all, and in a few years (assuming the breeder learns more about breeding, which probably will happen) I would definitely recommend her as an option for new bun owners looking for friendly buns in my area.
I am not bashing this breeder at all, in fact I really like her as she is helpful, friendly, and cares a lot for her buns, that is just my experience and what I think.

If you have any questions about my bun or the breeder I would be happy to answer them :)
 
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lilac said:
This was a very interesting read and I think you said this very well, but I'd like to point out that there is nothing wrong with ethical breeders, and most bun owners are only against BYBs. The reason some rabbit owners prefer rescues and don't encourage adopting from breeders is since because of BYBs, there are SO many rabbits without homes in the world- and most of the time, these rabbits don't have the best health and temperament, since they weren't bred for it. Ethical breeders won't be churning out rabbits, most of them will be breeding to better the rabbit itself and only adopting out rabbits that don't "make the cut". And most educated bun owners won't "hate" these breeders.

Also, I think I know which breeder you are talking about who free-roams her entire colony in her house. I, actually, have very recently adopted a bun from her. (If I am right on who the breeder is of course. I would PM you with the specific breeder but I don't see the option) Although she seems like an ideal breeder at first glance, with the help of some experienced breeders and rabbit owners like @zuppa, @SableSteel, @JBun, @Preitler and @majorv I realized that she is actually just a novice. She definitely cares for her rabbits a LOT and has the best intentions behind all of this, but she is fairly new to breeding (she has only been in it for about a year) and she isn't getting everything right yet. For one, the diet she feeds to her buns isn't actually ideal. It's great that they are having veggies so early, but the babies and the mothers need more protein. Plus the prices are really high, (making me think she's partly trying to profit) and in visiting her to pick up my bun, I found she does not actually free-roam her colony in all of her house. They are definitely getting MORE than enough space, but the rabbits are sort of seperated. The father, for example, is always in a separate room than the girls, with a few babies there too. There is nothing wrong with this, it just goes to show that not everything will be exactly as you expect/as shown online.
The bun I got from this breeder was SUPER friendly, and not picky at all when it comes to food. I do not regret getting her at all, and in a few years (assuming the breeder learns more about breeding, which probably will happen) I would definitely recommend her as an option for new bun owners looking for friendly buns in my area.
I am not bashing this breeder at all, in fact I really like her as she is helpful, friendly, and cares a lot for her buns, that is just my experience and what I think.

If you have any questions about my bun or the breeder I would be happy to answer them :)
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you can do it now, I thought I reconized that bun!
 
I don't really know too much about breeding as I try to adopt when I can but to me, an ethical breeder would ensure that they're selling to people who have done their research and know that this could be a 10+ year commitment. So basically screen your buyers, ask questions, offer a care sheet, etc because a pet store near me will literally sell them to anyone who walks through the door with no questions. A baby rabbit is cute and all, but who will take care of them for the rest of their lives when you or your kid(s) lose interest after realizing that rabbits might not be for you? This is what happened with my younger cousins, who impulsively purchased a baby from the pet store and the novelty wore off after a few weeks. Their parents did not care and they ended up giving him away to a friend. However I know some people have good personal reasons to rehome and that I do understand. So I think an ethical breeder would also let their buyers know that their rabbits can be returned to them at any time if the family can no longer provide proper care.
 
One of the things that separates ethical breeders from unethical breeder: offering to take a rabbit back if the buyer can't keep it. An unethical breeder is just in a it for the money, and doesn't care about what happens to the rabbit once it leaves their house and usually doesn't want the hassle of taking in an older rabbit. An ethical breeder wants to know where their rabbit ends up and an ethical breeder's rabbit will usually never end up in a shelter. I've been breeding for 13 years, and I've stayed in touch with the buyers, taken back rabbits if the people had to move or such, even gone out to the new owner's house to help them with grooming years after they bought the rabbit from me.

Another big thing, imo, is breeding for a purpose. There are enough pet quality rabbits out there. I honestly don't support anybody breeding just to sell pets, no matter how good their rabbit care is. Especially people breeding off-standard colors, such as vienna mark, just because it looks cute. To me, ethical breeders are breeding to show standards or, in some cases, meat standards.

I keep all my rabbits with wire flooring. They all have resting mats. Wire floors are so much cleaner (especially when I have white rabbits, and don't want yellow rabbits ;). And I do think the rabbits like the cool air flowing beneath them, especially in a warm climate like mine.
 
SableSteel said:
One of the things that separates ethical breeders from unethical breeder: offering to take a rabbit back if the buyer can't keep it. An unethical breeder is just in a it for the money, and doesn't care about what happens to the rabbit once it leaves their house and usually doesn't want the hassle of taking in an older rabbit. An ethical breeder wants to know where their rabbit ends up and an ethical breeder's rabbit will usually never end up in a shelter. I've been breeding for 13 years, and I've stayed in touch with the buyers, taken back rabbits if the people had to move or such, even gone out to the new owner's house to help them with grooming years after they bought the rabbit from me.

Another big thing, imo, is breeding for a purpose. There are enough pet quality rabbits out there. I honestly don't support anybody breeding just to sell pets, no matter how good their rabbit care is. Especially people breeding off-standard colors, such as vienna mark, just because it looks cute. To me, ethical breeders are breeding to show standards or, in some cases, meat standards.

I keep all my rabbits with wire flooring. They all have resting mats. Wire floors are so much cleaner (especially when I have white rabbits, and don't want yellow rabbits ;). And I do think the rabbits like the cool air flowing beneath them, especially in a warm climate like mine.
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I totally like the point of view you are coming from, but what if I want a specialty breed as a pet? I have a business and cute bunnies help things sell, obviously i'm not just getting another rabbit for photos, I just want a cute one. I would love a netherland dwarf with super tiny ears, but thats hard to come by because breeders won't sell them is they have good traits. and do you think that we should also breed for good personailty so we can "tame" them more?
 
I run a small rabbitry with just four Holland lops. I socialize them every day and give them lots of attention. They live indoors in big pens, are fed Sherwood rabbit food, Small pet Select hay, and filtered water. I screen every family who is interested in one of the babies and have them fill out a two pg. form before adopting. Ok, maybe it's a little excessive, but want to make sure they all go to amazing homes!
 
After a traumatizing experience, I also ask every family to agree to bring their bunny back if they can no longer care for it :)
 
To me, ethical breeding is rewarding work. Rabbit heath always, always comes first! I personally offer lifetime support and this includes taking back bunnies if their new homes don't work out. Yes, it happens more than you would think. But I do this to keep my rabbits out of the shelters and other rescues because I'm not breeding for the money. I truly care about all my baby buns and I'm still in touch with their owners after years. Sometimes I get the pleasure of meeting them again.

Wire cages are common in the breeding world. I'm not against other people using wire cages, but I personally would never do so. For one, many of my rabbits go to pet homes where they are free roam / on solid floor cages, so I want to raise them in an environment as close as possible to their new homes. I get many comments from potential buyers about how my bunnies are housed in a different way than they'd expect me to keep them as a breeder (in a good way). This includes spacious solid floor cages, litter boxes, daily free roam time, etc.

Diet is a huge part of an ethical breeder. I personally only feed organic foods. Fresh hay and occasional veggies are offered. Our rabbit's get enrichment toys to keep their brains engaged and lives enjoyable. Their cages are vacuumed daily. When I rehome baby bunnies, they all go with a very generous care kit which is a large expense to me but totally worth it.

Last but definitely not least, socialization. Spending time with baby bunnies as soon as they are born is extremely important for obvious reasons. I know some breeders who do not look in the nest until the baby's hop out, which is downright awful! Baby bunnies should be accustomed to being handled, especially with children. Also, being used to other animals and household noises is important for future pets.

...Anyways, that was just my opinion. Hopefully it's insightful!
 
Happy Hollands said:
To me, ethical breeding is rewarding work. Rabbit heath always, always comes first! I personally offer lifetime support and this includes taking back bunnies if their new homes don't work out. Yes, it happens more than you would think. But I do this to keep my rabbits out of the shelters and other rescues because I'm not breeding for the money. I truly care about all my baby buns and I'm still in touch with their owners after years. Sometimes I get the pleasure of meeting them again.

Wire cages are common in the breeding world. I'm not against other people using wire cages, but I personally would never do so. For one, many of my rabbits go to pet homes where they are free roam / on solid floor cages, so I want to raise them in an environment as close as possible to their new homes. I get many comments from potential buyers about how my bunnies are housed in a different way than they'd expect me to keep them as a breeder (in a good way). This includes spacious solid floor cages, litter boxes, daily free roam time, etc.

Diet is a huge part of an ethical breeder. I personally only feed organic foods. Fresh hay and occasional veggies are offered. Our rabbit's get enrichment toys to keep their brains engaged and lives enjoyable. Their cages are vacuumed daily. When I rehome baby bunnies, they all go with a very generous care kit which is a large expense to me but totally worth it.

Last but definitely not least, socialization. Spending time with baby bunnies as soon as they are born is extremely important for obvious reasons. I know some breeders who do not look in the nest until the baby's hop out, which is downright awful! Baby bunnies should be accustomed to being handled, especially with children. Also, being used to other animals and household noises is important for future pets.

...Anyways, that was just my opinion. Hopefully it's insightful!
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I really like your methods! Im glad things are starting to change in the breeding world!
 
Keep in mind that breeders breed for different purposes and that tends to dictate how some things are done. I follow with @SableSteel.
We bred our rabbits to show, and sell to other show breeders. Temperament and good genetics are important, as well as breeding to standards. On the occasion we had a rabbit to pet out we always tried to explain how to care for them and that we would take back any rabbit regardless of the reason. About a year ago I found myself with a Tan we’d petted out about 6 years ago. We had no cages since getting out of rabbits, but I set up a living area for him and my daughter found another home for him. Last thing I want is for one of our rabbits to end up in a shelter, or worse, abandoned.
 
Also,
would it be impossible for me to get a netherland dwarf with the really tiny ears? Breeders always keep their rabbits with those good genetics.
 
peanutdabunny said:
Also,
would it be impossible for me to get a netherland dwarf with the really tiny ears? Breeders always keep their rabbits with those good genetics.
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Where would you get it from? Not by breeding random rabbits you just happen to have. But with reading up on the matter, getting in contact with experienced people, getting good breeding stock, responsible culling, running a rabbitry for some generations, why not - that's how other breeders do it. So, not impossible if you have and are willing to devote this resources.

The ethical aspect is to not just focus on tiny ears, deforming animals to something that pleases some glitch in our brains can have side effects. Just think of pugs. Or costs of dentals for rabbits.

That's why I just breed meat mutts, my only goals are health and character. Don't care how they look like, not even how fast they grow. Actually, I'm not breeding for a specific goal, I just aim to have working stock, and improve a little. Since breeding for a goal is not my incentive time between generations is about 5 years, not 6 months, so there'll be little progress in my remaining lifetime.
 
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Preitler said:
Where would you get it from? Not by breeding random rabbits you just happen to have. But with reading up on the matter, getting in contact with experienced people, getting good breeding stock, responsible culling, running a rabbitry for some generations, why not - that's how other breeders do it. So, not impossible if you have and are willing to devote this resources.

The ethical aspect is to not just focus on tiny ears, deforming animals to something that pleases some glitch in our brains can have side effects. Just think of pugs. Or costs of dentals for rabbits.

That's why I just breed meat mutts, my only goals are health and character. Don't care how they look like, not even how fast they grow. Actually, I'm not breeding for a specific goal, I just aim to have working stock, and improve a little. Since breeding for a goal is not my incentive time between generations is about 5 years, not 6 months, so there'll be little progress in my remaining lifetime.
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Don't worry I have researched a ton in my area for ethical netherland dwarf breeders, sad truth is that either the rabbits are housed outside which I will never agree with. Or its 1k for a bunny, which I believe is way too much!
 
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