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Wow. This is a very interesting discussion! lol. OMG.. the hens couldn't turn around?! Our chicken houses are pretty good around here. One of my dad's friends from work has 55,000 chickens... more or less. He has huge houses, and there are ood sized pens that the hens stay in, and 5 stay in each.
 
Help!

I do aHospitality and Cateringcourse at college. We have been doing written work all week, and we have been looking at different types of meat and things. The pictures are disguisting! The poor things! Its gross because you can actually make out which animal is which :(.

Anyway I think it has put me off meat for ever. I had yesterdays dinner earlier before work, and we had pork. But when I saw it on my plate I felt ill, and when I took one bite I was very nearly sick! I dont know if I can eat meat anymore :?Even that I ate all my pork today, I wasnt happy eating it.

I love steak and chips though :(I dont think I can ever eat it again. It just made me realise that we are eating live animals. I didnt really think of it that way before. My college lessons have made me think of it in a completely different way. Its a good job I dont want to be a chef as I would have to COOK the meat and prepare it! (I want to work in a hotel doing bar work or waitressing).
 
Broiler birds are a cross-breed bird - usually between a white rock and cornish. Sadly, most male laying hens are 'put down' shortly after hatch. Even in the 'good old days' male chickens didn't live long as most homesteaders would cook them before they started to crow and reach puberty. I really don't want to go into what can happen if you have too many males and not enough females. Let's just say it is not good for the females.

Martina wrote:
...

*"Free Range" Eggs...In order to get laying hens you have to have fertile eggs and half the eggs will hatch into male chicks. These are killed at once or raised as table birds (usually these days in broiler houses) and slaughtered as soon as they reach an economic weight. So for every free-range hen happily scratching around the garden or farm who, if she were able to bargain, might pay rent with her daily infertile egg, a corresponding male from her batch is enduring life in a broiler house or has already been subjected to slaughter or thrown away to die.
 
Well after the talk in my lessons about meat, Its has clearly put me off meat for life.

But then again I wasnt a real fan of it anyway. I never liked chicken, turkey etc. I only ever liked sirlion steak and chips at a pub.

Our family only ever buy free range eggs anyway.

But I didnt know that the calfs were killed as soon as they were born so we can have the milk! Thats awful.

I would like some information in a healthy diet then If i am turning into a vegetarian. I suppose you could call me a vegan as I am allergic to dairy products! But even if i wasnt allergic to it, I would certainly not be drinking milk anymore.

I found out I was allergic to dairy products about 4 years ago, as when I have any I get really bad excyma.However, Ive been taking calcium tablets instead of the milk.

But what other vitimans etc do you need if you are a vegan? (I still eat eggs though, free range)

Please reply asap as I have no idea what to eat! :?lol


 
Thanks Lissa ;)

I'm glad at leastsome people herewant to be vegan or vegetarian :)

So you think "free range" eggs are ok let me remind you..."Free Range" Eggs...In order to get laying hens you have to have fertile eggs and half the eggs will hatch into male chicks. These are killed at once or raised as table birds (usually these days in broiler houses) and slaughtered as soon as they reach an economic weight. So for every free-range hen happily scratching around the garden or farm who, if she were able to bargain, might pay rent with her daily infertile egg, a corresponding male from her batch is enduring life in a broiler house or has already been subjected to slaughter or thrown away to die. Every year in Britain alone more than 35 million day-old male chicks are killed. They are mainly used for fertilizer or dumped in landfill sites. The hens are also culled as soon as their production drops. Also be aware that many sites classed as free range aren't really free range, they're just massive barns with access to the outside. Since the food and light are inside the chickens rarely venture outside. So any barn with a door can be considered "free range" which is pathetic.

You are not a vegan if you eat eggs no exception sorry.
If one is vegan and good at getting all the veggies and stuff they need they don't need extra vitamins, here are some things on protein and iron ...

*Protein... Should I be worried about getting enough protein on a vegan diet? No, not as long as you're taking in enough calories. Official recommendations suggest that eating 8% of our daily energy as protein will provide an adequate amount. National and international recommendations for protein intake are based on animal sources of protein such as meat, cow's milk and eggs. Plant proteins may be less digestible because of intrinsic differences in the nature of the protein and the presence of other factors such as fiber, which may reduce protein digestibility by as much as 10%. Nevertheless, dietary studies show the adequacy of plant foods, as sole sources of protein as does the experience of healthy vegans of all ages.

The main protein foods in a vegan diet are the pulses (peas, beans and lentils), nuts, seeds and grains, all of which are relatively energy dense. As the average protein level in pulses is 27% of calories; in nuts and seeds 13%; and in grains 12%, it is easy to see that plant foods can supply the recommended amount of protein as long as the energy requirements are met.

*Iron..."Iron deficiency, unlike protein deficiency, sometimes is a real problem, but meat is not the answer." The American Dietetic Association said in 1988 that vegetarians don't have a higher incidence of iron deficiency than non-vegetarians. If you are concerned about getting enough iron, avoid eating iron-rich foods along with substances that inhibit iron absorption: phytates (found in high-bran and unmilled cereals), polyphenols (such as tannins in tea) and calcium. Eat iron-rich foods along with foods containing vitamin C, which aids absorption. Good sources of iron include dried figs and prunes, dark-green leafy greens, legumes, certain whole grains such as quinoa and millet, blackstrap molasses, nuts and nutritional yeast. Acidic foods cooked in cast-iron pans are also good sources of the mineral.


So if you just eat the proper foods you will be fine.maybe to make it more appetizing (if you think it is just veggies) get some vegan books or findrecipes on the Internet, vegweb has some really good recipes. if you find a local health, vegan shop orrestaurant around you that will make it alot easier, we are lucky here in near Vancouver to have quite a few vegan places but they are everywhere. But people should really look it up more on the Internet there are alot of great websites, they answer all of anyones questions

 
Ah ok I thought free range eggs were acceptionable, but I didnt realise the male chicks were still killed. That is really cruel. But I wouldnt of thought there was that much recipes out there for vegans? I hope there is though.

Like if you cant eat meat, fish, eggs, milk, cheese, wot else is there to eat lol. You must be really limited! For instance you cant bake a cake without eggs or milk! Or you cant eat bread either!?

I must admit I have tryed to bake a cake with soya milk, but it certainly didnt turn out as good.

I will look for vegan/vegetarian books for recipes etc. I think all your advice was great, thank you. I didnt realise they treated animals this way, If i knew I would of been a vegetarian/vegan years ago.

I think I will stick asa vegetarian because all my family are meat eaters, and being a vegan wouldnt go with my lifestyle at the moment. As my mum hasnt got the time to cook for seperate people. But when I leave home I will definetly consider it.

To be honest I do want to become a vegan, but I would have no idea what to eat. But as I say I will be looking for easy recipes to do for one person cooking!

Thankz! :DI can go away now not worrying about not having enoughprotien in my body!
 
and marmite is surprisingly vegan and a good source of vit B12 which is often said to be 'impossible' for vegans toget.

No good if you don't LOVEit tho.

Me and boyf just make vegan choc cake - soooo yum!

and vegan pancakes

and vegan yorkshire puds

and vegan scrambled eggs (from tofu - don't knock it till you've tried it)

and vegan ice cream

vegan custard

vegan cookies

vegan pate

-and on that note , I'm off to ransack the fridge!
 
How do you make vegan yorkshires, pancakes etc when you cant use milk or eggs??

(on THAT note don't forget pancake day tuesday! :D)

[line]

Also I didnt think this was worth it to post a new post about this, but I have been looking through the vegweb site and it has GREAT recipes that I can easily do! ;)

But what is a 'cup' of something? How much does a 'cup' weigh?
 
yes I'm glad you people realize that :)

There are alot of really good recipes, I also make vegan chocolate cakes, brownies (that only take four minutes), cookies, vegan "ice cream" (you can even put the vegan cookie dough in it),vegan French bread,vegan fake meat, veganfake butter (i use Earth Balance), veganfake mayonnaise (called veganaise) and so on... and it has almost nothing to do with just fruits and vegetables so it isn't boring or restricted.

For eggs you can buy Ener-G egg replacer, tofu with some water, a mashed banana, applesauce or pureed fruit, blendedflax seeds, or soy flour plus 1 tablespoon water for one egg, obviously some are better for sweet baked goods and some are better for not sweet stuff. Soymilk can be used in almost any recipe too, there are even plain, vanilla or chocolate soymilks.


For those who have not found a vegan pancake recipe here you go...

Vegan Pancakes

1 cup of flour

1 Teaspoon baking powder

1 teaspoon baking soda

1/4 teaspoon salt

1 cup soymilk

3/4 cup water


In a medium bowl, stir together the flour, baking powder, baking soda, and salt. Add the soymilk, water and stir until "just mixed". Portion out about 1/3 cup of the batter onto a hot non-stick pan or lightly oiled frying pan. Let sit on medium heat until the center starts to bubble and become sturdy. Flip pancake over and cook other side until golden brown. Repeat process until batter is gone. Make 2 or more servings.
You can add whatever you want to them fruits orhave them with veganvanilla "ice cream"





1 cup is about 200 grams I think, if that helps :?



 
Note to self - remember pancake day - thanks!

mostly, eggs are used in baking as a binding ingredient rather than for their taste so usually egg free 'egg' powder or vegan margerine olive oil or even very cold water can be used instead.

For the yorkie puds for example, mix the flour and vegan butter and then add soya milk until it is batter thickness (it's a BIT more complicated than this but there are loads of recipes).

I have some really good recipe books - I'll post the titles in the morning.

-sorry for sp mistakes - long day

-glad you're interested tho


 
FlopsnWills wrote:
i was a vegetarian for a year, and at the time it was because of the way animals are treated in those horrible slaughter houses. i stopped vegetarianismbecause i pretty much gave up and i knew i wasn't changing anything... and i also really missed burgers. when i was a vegetarian, i didn't eat chicken or fish and people thought that was so strange. i might go back to it eventually, but for now, i don't have the will power.

lissa- morningstar hasthe best fake meat out there! i loved their italian chicken marinara sandwich.. yummy!
Do you have Yves veggie burgers, etc. in your neighbourhood(s)? Somebody also makesa great Portebella veggie burger, but can't remember who.

Haven't seen Morningstar anywhere.

sas :eatsand pipp :bunny2(who likes the buns!)
 
Oh has anyone here tried "The Original Mountain Veggie Burger" from Big Mountain Foods (I think) it is vegan and really good and only takes like 3minutes to cook, there are alot of good veggie/vegan meats out there, people don't always give tofu products a chance though :? You shouldn't give up because you don't think you are changing anything because you are, maybe not as much as you want but one is making a difference just by howoneis living
 
http://www.goodnessdirect.co.uk/cgi-local/frameset/detail/266074.html



You can get this stuff cheaper in the shops I think but explore this uksite under 'vegan' for just a taster of all the 'imitation' meat and dairy out there.

And think how many different veggies there are compared to meats -and how many different ways of cooking them-so variety is certainly not a problem.

oh, and anyone interested should try recipes by Eva Batt, leah Leneman or Rose Elliot - some are better than others but it just depends on your taste.

:colors:Right now, I'm cooking, roast tofu and asparagus sandwiches with garlic spinach, raisin and pine nut salad - yummmmmmmm
 
I'm not vegan or vegetarian and never really had any desire to be....still don't know that I do.

But...this thread caught my eye today and I read through it. I want to say I'm so pleased at the discussion going on - how folks could ask questions and not be attacked if they weren't vegan or vegetarian. I really found the openness here so refreshing.....

Years and years ago (um...almost 30 years ago) I did a report on vegetarianism and one of the resources I used was a book called something like "Diet for a Small Planet" or something like that....I know it was "Diet for" and I thought it had "Planet" or "Earth" in the title. It was a MAJOR book back then ('77 I think?).

Maybe somebody will know the title and can share more about it. I know that it did make me think about what I ate back then and how I could get protein if I didn't eat meat....

Peg
 
The thought of eating eggs (think about what they really are!!) completely grosses me out. I no longer eat anything with eggs in it. GROSS.:vomit:
 
To those who think they are not making a difference by what they eat or don't eat I have found a stat that says alot I think... *Everyday* 1,490,745 animals are saved by vegetarians and vegans. Consider the lives of the animals. Is it any less wrong to kill a cow than your dog? They both have feelings and emotions, and it is visible to see them go through this pain as they are being killed, harmed and starved. Be a voice for the animals. You alone can save the lives of 95 or moreanimals a year.

I agree eggs are verydisgusting,I can't believe I used to eat them, even hidden in ingredients yuck



 
The way animals are treated is sickening. Itmakes me glad to know that i raise my own hens, rabbits, and chickenoccasionallyand soon to be goat-milk, that way i know what'shappening to the animals and they're being treated correctly! I reallythought this topic interesting and the information put forward was verygood. Although i still won't be depending completely on my own animalsfor the food i eat, it helps a small amount.

Ellie
 
Martina wrote:
To those who think they are not making a difference by whatthey eat or don't eat I have found a stat that says alot I think...*Everyday* 1,490,745 animals are saved by vegetarians and vegans.Consider the lives of the animals. Is it any less wrong to kill a cowthan your dog? They both have feelings and emotions, and it is visibleto see them go through this pain as they are being killed, harmed andstarved. Be a voice for the animals. You alone can save the lives of 95or moreanimals a year.

I agree eggs are verydisgusting,I can't believe I used to eat them, even hidden in ingredients yuck


What I don't get about the statement of saving 1, 490, 745 animals aday because aren't they still being slaughtered? They're still is ahuge demand of meat and they mostly increase their stock with the highdemand (correct me if I'm wrong) but I wouldn't think that they woulddecrease their stock just for the reason of some people don't eat it ?So correct me if I'm sounding ignorant, but aren't the meat just beingeaten by someone else or being thrown away?

I don't mind eating meat because that's just how I think ofthings.A lion doesn't feel bad for eating a Zebra becausethat's just how nature made them. It's like that with anything innature. I don't have a problem with eating meat, I just hate theconditions the animals and situations they go through. I'm now only eateggs I get from a friend of my moms because herbirdsare treated good and I know there won't be aton of junk in them. They taste %100 better anyways!

I'm totally against animal cruelty but I can't jsut stop eating meat. Ijust wish they'd treat the animals with a little more respect.:?
 
You're right,that's a pretty hard statistic to sell. It would take anenormous number of people to suddenly stop eating meat beforethe livestock and poultry industries would even consider reducing thenumber of animals they raise. Vegetarians and vegans are, in a sense,washing their hands of any direct cruelty - they don't want topersonally be responsible for contributing to the overall factoryfarming economy. And I respect them for that.

But the animals are still being killed :( Think about it: a growingfast food industry, pet food, worldwide demand for meat products. It'snot going to go away anytime soon. If you want to reform the meatindustry, becoming a vegetarian/vegan is just the first step. It willtake work, campaigning, and legislation to let the industry know thatwe don't want animals farmed this way. And yet...what would stop themfrom simply taking their business elsewhere (think global economy)?It's a business, it's driven by profits, and it will have ademand somewhere.

Now that I'm on a roll, let me just point out another oft-quotedstatistic: we could feed the world's hungry if we were able to take theland and resources used to raise livestock, and divert it towardsagricultural means (growing wheat, rice, corn, etc.). With that, we'dhave more than enough food for everyone in the world.

Here's the deal: wealready
have enough more than enough food for everyone in the world. It'snot a matter have more food. It's politics. It's governments. It'sregimes that won't feed their people no matter how much food we throwat them. Simply having more food isn't going to solve the problem.

But enough of my morning ranting :D If I have offended anyone, I amtruly sorry, that was not my intention. I just wanted to bring anotherperspective (sobering as it is) to the discussion.

I really do appreciate how respectful everyone has been. Thank you.
 
Spring wrote:

What I don't get about the statement of saving 1, 490, 745 animals aday because aren't they still being slaughtered? They're still is ahuge demand of meat and they mostly increase their stock with the highdemand (correct me if I'm wrong) but I wouldn't think that they woulddecrease their stock just for the reason of some people don't eat it ?So correct me if I'm sounding ignorant, but aren't the meat just beingeaten by someone else or being thrown away?


Wow!! If everybody had that attitude, we'd have a HUGEproblem in this world. So we shouldn't give foodandmoney to the dying people in third-world countries becausethe problem is too big??? That's absurd. Everybodyplays their part.

 
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