True or false..

[JimD]

angieluv wrote:

Jim..you are most likely right but it is very difficult tostop giving them veggies when they have had themtheir wholelives and are waiting for them every night.

LOL!! The hardest part was getting over that look they give you! Theone where they suck their little cheeks in and try to look halfstarved. It took a while to adjust them all, but I think they're betteroff for it now.

Once they've gotten that daily routine down, it can be very hard tochange it. Mine all get a small amount of rolled oats in the morningwith their pellets. Forbid I should run out of oats, though. If I couldput words to the looks they give me....:tantrum: I'm sure I wouldn't beable to print them here!

~Jim

 

[Maureen Las]

I have 6 rabbits in one room in partioned offareas. At night when it is time for "greens" all eyes are on me andthey are standing up on their hind legs begging. I had started cuttingback on greens but now I found out that Jacques tumors are malignant Ihave gone back to giving him as much as he can eat and allthe others can't just feel that I just sit and watch one ofthem get all the treats....maybe I could feed Jacques his greenssomewhere else...believe me I am sick of buying all of this stuff..theyget Oxbow hay so that I'm sure would be adequate.

 

[JimD]

I'm so sorry about Jacques .....Did they do a biopsy and/or get the results?
I've missed so much on the forum lately.

Our Binkie had a mass in her dewlap. At first the vet thought it mightbe an abcess, but then it grew really fast. This made her think that itmight be malignent. Just to be sure, she use a needle to take a sampleand sending it out for biopsy. It ended up being benign and theyremoved it.We just have to keep checking her in case shedevelops more.

On a lighter note....Chippy gets sooooo excited when I come into theroom with the bag of greens. She has been known to dive right into thebag if she get a chance.

~Jim

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

JimD wrote:

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote:

I, for example, only feed a quality pelleted feed and do not supplementwith fresh vegetables or fruits... but that is my choice of preferencefor my rabbits.
~Sunshine

Why?

Because IMO, my pelleted feed provides all necessary nutrients andvitamins that my rabbits need... so there is no reason to supplementwith additional sources. Also, when you're feeding up-wardsof 70 rabbits - the fruits and veggies could become quite costly... andit wouldn't be fair to the other rabbits if only a few of them getsomething "extra special", especially when I feel all my rabbits arespecial.

So, I go Quality Pelleted feed straight across the board within my Rabbitry.

~Sunshine

Ditto!! IMO.... that is

I love the threads on diets. Everybody has their own opinion.Unfortuately, what works for one bun may not work for another. I have 8bunnies and they all seem to have different dietary needs. I canimagine the task of tending to the needs of over 70.

I've found that the buns have less soft cecal/poop problems on apellet/hay/water diet. Geens are a 1 or 2 times a week treat for mine.Same thing with the papaya. They also love timothy blocks for treats.

At one point I was spending over $20 a week on fruits and veggies forthe buns. Now I only buy one large head of romaine and maybe someparsley.

Weight and appearance has also improved with a simpler diet. They'veall gotten trimmer and shed/molt a lot less. Even Brindle (aka "Thesoccerball with fur") has gained the title of "Miss Svelt"

~Jim

PS:
A wise and caring person once said "Keep it simple-stupid!"

First, I have no idea what IMO is. Second, my opinion is that70 bunnies is a little excessive, especially if you cant afford to takecare of them properly. Thirdly, how would you like to eat thesame thing every day? I'm sure you'd get sick of it which iswhy my opinion is that bunnies should get fruits and veggies onoccassion. Mine get veggies every day. Again, imsimply sharing my opinion. Feel free to make a rebuttal.

Edit - Sorry, I don't mean for this to sound "aggressive" oranything. I just couldn't think of another way to putit. I'm also at work and don't have time to go through andbutter it up, sorry again - please take it with a grain of salt.

 

[JimD]

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

First, I have no idea what IMO is. Second, myopinion is that 70 bunnies is a little excessive, especially if youcant afford to take care of them properly. Thirdly, how wouldyou like to eat the same thing every day? I'm sure you'd getsick of it which is why my opinion is that bunnies should get fruitsand veggies on occassion. Mine get veggies everyday. Again, im simply sharing my opinion. Feel freeto make a rebuttal.

Firstly (oh how formal) ..... IMO = "In My Opion"

Secondly, Sunshine operates a rabbitry...so 70 bunnies is not considered excessive.

Thirdly, your opion is just that....your opion. And opionions are justlike bellybuttons...everybody's got one....and they're all different.

Fourthly, this is why I usually will not get involved in discussions concerning rabbit diets.

Fifthly...this is starting to sound a bit like baiting to me.

 

[JimD]

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

Edit - Sorry, I don't mean for this to sound "aggressive" oranything. I just couldn't think of another way to putit. I'm also at work and don't have time to go through andbutter it up, sorry again - please take it with a grain of salt.

...more "abrasive" than agressive.

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

JimD wrote:

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

First, I have no idea what IMO is. Second, myopinion is that 70 bunnies is a little excessive, especially if youcant afford to take care of them properly. Thirdly, how wouldyou like to eat the same thing every day? I'm sure you'd getsick of it which is why my opinion is that bunnies should get fruitsand veggies on occassion. Mine get veggies everyday. Again, im simply sharing my opinion. Feel freeto make a rebuttal.

Firstly (oh how formal) ..... IMO = "In My Opion"

Secondly, Sunshine operates a rabbitry...so 70 bunnies is not considered excessive.

Thirdly, your opion is just that....your opion. And opionions are justlike bellybuttons...everybody's got one....and they're all different.

Fourthly, this is why I usually will not get involved in discussions concerning rabbit diets.

Fifthly...this is starting to sound a bit like baiting to me.

I hate when ppl accuse me of "baiting" just because Idisagree. Please stop being so senstive. I sent youa PM to further explain my thoughts.

 

[JimD]

Please do not take this to PM's....unless you prefer to hide your comments.

If you go back to see what was posted you will see that you are not refering correctly..
As stated by SunnieBunnie: "Also, whenyou're feeding up-wards of 70 rabbits - the fruits and veggies couldbecome quite costly... "

 

[SunnieBunnie Rabbitry]

JimD wrote:

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

First, I have no idea what IMO is. Second, myopinion is that 70 bunnies is a little excessive, especially if youcant afford to take care of them properly. Thirdly, how wouldyou like to eat the same thing every day? I'm sure you'd getsick of it which is why my opinion is that bunnies should get fruitsand veggies on occassion. Mine get veggies everyday. Again, im simply sharing my opinion. Feel freeto make a rebuttal.

Firstly (oh how formal) ..... IMO = "In My Opion"

Secondly, Sunshine operates a rabbitry...so 70 bunnies is not considered excessive.

Thirdly, your opion is just that....your opion. And opionions are justlike bellybuttons...everybody's got one....and they're all different.

Fourthly, this is why I usually will not get involved in discussions concerning rabbit diets.

Fifthly...this is starting to sound a bit like baiting to me.

ilovetegocalderon:
I'm happy to hear that you believe strongly in your opinions ... I amthe same way, however I am also always open to the beliefsandactions of other peoples points of view and I don'tcondemn them for it, but rather learn from it.

- There used to be a point in time when I did feed fruits andveggies to my rabbits, but atwasbackwhenthere was only 1 - 3 rabbits that I owned,as pets. Yes, I believe that pet bunnies should be well caredfor and be offered the occasional fruit or veggie. But asJimD stated, I do run a Rabbitry for purposes of show conformation... Ihave found, through trial and error... that fruits and veggies did moreharm than good with my particular rabbits, so I choose to omit themfrom their diet. This does not mean that my rabbits aren'tproperly cared for or that I am cruel to them, as I care for my rabbitsdeeply. I take pride in the quality and health of everyrabbit produced here.

It's okay ... I understand and agree with your opinion.Even though it does not work for my situation and needs for myparticular rabbits. Nothing personal.



JimD:
"Opinionsare like Bellybuttons"... that's classic!

 

[naturestee]

I think we have to remember that there is no oneperfect way to feed a rabbit. We can't even agree on the oneperfect way to feed ourselves (have you seen all the different versionsof the food pyramid?), how can we determine the one best way for acreature that can't tell us how he's feeling?

It's definately true that different diets work for differentrabbits. Some get diarrhea from the mere sight of greens, orget more frequent GI stasis from them. Others are verysensitive to pellets but can eat all the greens they want and do betterfor them.

But when you get down to basics, the most important thing to feed arabbit is a good quality pellet. Hay should be fed too, butit's not always hygenic in a rabbitry. I'd rather see goodhygiene. Veggies are nice but not strictlynecessary. And that's the basic truth.

 

[ilovetegocalderon]

Just make sure your bunnies get fed something.

 

[Lissa]

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

Thirdly, how would you like to eat the same thing every day?I'm sure you'd get sick of it which is why my opinion is that bunniesshould get fruits and veggies on occassion. Mine get veggiesevery day. Again, im simply sharing my opinion.Feel free to make a rebuttal.

My rabbits rarely get fresh veggies and fruits and they are perfectly healthy and happy.

 

[Rachy1412]

I am inclined to agree with ilovetegocalderon.

 

[m.e.]

Lissa wrote:

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

Thirdly, how would you like to eat the same thing every day?I'm sure you'd get sick of it which is why my opinion is that bunniesshould get fruits and veggies on occassion. Mine get veggiesevery day. Again, im simply sharing my opinion.Feel free to make a rebuttal.

My rabbits rarely get fresh veggies and fruits and they are perfectly healthy and happy.

:nod

My biology teacher pointed outsomething this past week that I think weighs in when we're talkingabout rabbit diets: plants are a poor source of nutrition.

Now, before the vegetarians start throwing rocks (), she added thatthrough selective reproduction, highly evolved cultivating mechanisms,and lots o' fertilizer, we have been able to create a variety of plantproducts, especially vegetables, that are ripe with vitamins andminerals.

But they rarely occur like that in nature.

Why do horses, cows, elephants, giraffes, *insert herbivore here* grazenearly all day long? And why do rabbits and other cecotrophicspecies digest their foodagain by eating their[size="-1"]cecotropes? Becauseit's very difficult to break down plant material to gain the necessaryvitamins, minerals, and especially, calories.

That's why I'm resistent to the idea that feeding fruits and veggies is"natural". Eating plant material is natural, but wild rabbits rarelyhave multicolored buffets of nutrition-packed leafy greens and fruitsavailable to them.

I do think that a plant-based diet is more natural than pellets, butnot by much. The advantage plants have is that they're minimallyprocessed, and provide water along with natural fiber. But they're arich food, and for many rabbits, their digestive systems just can'thandle that.

I have tried, and tried, and tried some more to give my bunnies freshvegetables. They have loose stools every single time. My cats eat a rawfood diet. My mice eat a homemade mixture of grains, rice,and other goodies. I am not a fan of processed food But myrabbits can't eat a lot of fresh fruits or veggies. Period.

Oh, and wild rabbits rarely have 'variety' in their diets, either. Asmuch as I would love to give them new foods now and then, I think mybunnies would rather have a stable digestive tract. That's just myopinion because, well, that's the way my rabbits are.
[/size]

 

[bunnybunchof4]

JimD wrote:

SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote:

ilovetegocalderon wrote:

SunnieBunnie Rabbitry wrote:

I, for example, only feed a quality pelleted feed and do not supplementwith fresh vegetables or fruits... but that is my choice of preferencefor my rabbits.
~Sunshine

Why?

Because IMO, my pelleted feed provides all necessary nutrients andvitamins that my rabbits need... so there is no reason to supplementwith additional sources. Also, when you're feeding up-wardsof 70 rabbits - the fruits and veggies could become quite costly... andit wouldn't be fair to the other rabbits if only a few of them getsomething "extra special", especially when I feel all my rabbits arespecial.

So, I go Quality Pelleted feed straight across the board within my Rabbitry.

~Sunshine

Ditto!! IMO.... that is

I love the threads on diets. Everybody has their own opinion.Unfortuately, what works for one bun may not work for another. I have 8bunnies and they all seem to have different dietary needs. I canimagine the task of tending to the needs of over 70.

I've found that the buns have less soft cecal/poop problems on apellet/hay/water diet. Geens are a 1 or 2 times a week treat for mine.Same thing with the papaya. They also love timothy blocks for treats.

At one point I was spending over $20 a week on fruits and veggies forthe buns. Now I only buy one large head of romaine and maybe someparsley.

Weight and appearance has also improved with a simpler diet. They'veall gotten trimmer and shed/molt a lot less. Even Brindle (aka "Thesoccerball with fur") has gained the title of "Miss Svelt"

~Jim

PS:
A wise and caring person once said "Keep it simple-stupid!"

I will second that ditto! I had arabbit thatcould not tolerate veggies of any kind. Would always get soft poop ifthey ate it, and to me that problem was not worth it. One of my rabbitsnow refuses to eat veggies, no matter how many times I offer it to him.Turns his nose up at it, and I end up just throwing it away. He doesjust fine on a diet of unlimited hay and pellets.

The breeder I got Tinkerbell from has hundreds of rabbits, and shedoesn't feed veggies either, for obvious reasons and she believes itreally isn't needed.

It can be very expensive, espeically if you have more then one rabbit.With 4 rabbits, I'd be spending a lot if I tried to feed it daily tothem. They get romaine usually twice a week. And sometimes I'll buyother dark greens or something like broccoli. But it isn't a hugestaple in their diets. Their diet is mostly hay and pellets.

There is a huge difference in opinions with diets for rabbits though. Idon't think any is really wrong or right. Most of the time it dependson the individual rabbit even, just like people!

 

[Maureen Las]

JimD wrote:

I'mso sorry about Jacques .....Did they do a biopsyand/or get the results?
I've missed so much on the forum lately.

Our Binkie had a mass in her dewlap. At first the vet thought it mightbe an abcess, but then it grew really fast. This made her think that itmight be malignent. Just to be sure, she use a needle to take a sampleand sending it out for biopsy. It ended up being benign and theyremoved it.We just have to keep checking her in case shedevelops more.

On a lighter note....Chippy gets sooooo excited when I come into theroom with the bag of greens. She has been known to dive right into thebag if she get a chance.

~Jim

They removed 2 tumors and biopsied them. They are calledfibromas with their origin in the nerve sheath. They have not invadedany organ systems and probably will return....good thing is thatJacques is not at all ill but is very active and happy..he is bondedwith another bunny Joey and I need to work hard to keep him healthy forboth Joey and myself. I plan to keep giving him greens but I am goingto try to be strong enough to wean the others off so much..I think theyshould have some greens for variety but I overdo it. I've been readingabout abscesses..they can be very difficult to treat as I'm sure youknow. You had Binkie in an e-collar after the surgery didn't you?

 

[JimD]

angieluv wrote:

They removed 2 tumors and biopsied them. They are calledfibromas with their origin in the nerve sheath. They have not invadedany organ systems and probably will return....good thing is thatJacques is not at all ill but is very active and happy..he is bondedwith another bunny Joey and I need to work hard to keep him healthy forboth Joey and myself. I plan to keep giving him greens but I am goingto try to be strong enough to wean the others off so much..I think theyshould have some greens for variety but I overdo it. I've been readingabout abscesses..they can be very difficult to treat as I'm sure youknow. You had Binkie in an e-collar after the surgery didn'tyou?

I'll keep him in my thoughts and prayers.ray:Give him a scrunch from me!:hug:

Abscesses can be difficult to treat or remove if left too long. The vetindicated that they can actually invade and root into bone, tissue, andorgans. However, the fact that they remain encapsulated sometimes helpskeeps them from easily spreading. Binkie's went from the size of apeanut to the size of a walnut within a few weeks.

How is he when you check him? Binkie is so adamant when it comes tothat now. She's been prodded, poked, cut, handled, transported,etc....to the point that she's will have nothing to do with it. I checkher every day by holding a small piece of papaya over her head. She'lllook up and stretch out so I can get a good look without upsetting her.She has now plucked almost all of the fur off her dewlap. There no openwounds and it really doesn't look irritated at all. There's patches ofdown already growing back in places. Just gotta keep up the dailyvigil. She's actually has remain quite active and has gotten quiteaffectionate as long as you don't go near her dewlap.:nonono:

Yes, she did have the e-collar on ("E" for embarrassing) She didn'tlike it at all. She got accustomed to it, but obviously HATED it. Nowshe picked on me because I have to wear a back brace :X! Don't thinkthat I don't hear her giggling when I turn my back.

Binkie, Rosie-roo, & Tootsie could eat their weight in greens and be no worse for it.:eats

Brindle, Benji, Chippy & S'more get poop issues if they get too much or too often.:dunno

MooShu could take them or leave them....doesn't get excited at all and usually leave some uneaten.:whatever

Go figure it all...ya know?!?! I'd go nuts trying to cater to their desires, rather than attending to their actual needs.

With a consistent, diet it is much easier to tell if a bun is not feeling up to snuff, too.

I give Chippy a small piece of papaya every morning at feeding time(Chippy is my "GI Poster Bun", and we're getting pretty close to a gooddiet for her....long story). I feed Chippy last so the others don't getupset. The others are so ingrossed in eating that they seldom notice.

~Jim

 

[Maureen Las]

There is a new tv show called"Mommy,you'rekilling the kids"..its is based on parents who give their kids food toshut them up, reward them and give them momentary satisfaction. Ihaven't seen it yet but saw the commercials. I guess we have to bedisciplined with "our bunny kids" too. I haven't checked Jacques yet ashe just got the stitches out Mon. I told the vet that I was going tocheck his entire body once a day. She told me not to do that once ortwice a week is fine. If they don't regrow for about 6 months to a yearand he is still healthy she told me that she could take them out again.I know they will come back eventually because I asked her to give me acopy of the histology report. This is not a really aggressive cancerand has low to moderate % of metasisizing. As far as Binkie I know thatabscesses can grow like dandelions so I understand your concern Jim, Incheckingher frequently. Once you go through a horribleexperience with a bunny I know we all do everything to prevent areoccurence.

 

[NZminilops]

I feel the need to put my 2 cents in here.

I don't think that what you do or don't decide to feed your rabbit isan indication of how much or how little you care for them or whatreserach you have done. When I was a kid, I had wanted a rabbit all mylife. My mother said not until I turned 15, and I waited and waited asthe years when by. Finally on my 15th birthday we went and chose a bun,I have no idea of breed but was small and lovely, a broken black doe.She was the beginning and ending of my day. She had an outdoor hutchand spent all day with the run of the house when someone was home. Ibought rabbit books and read on what to feed and what rabbits like. Ofcourse carrots and lettuce (iceburg style was pictured) was highlyrecommened and my bun loved these things.

Sadly one night she had a huge bout of runny poo and had some sort ofseisure and passed away. I was absolutly depressed for weeks on end. Ikept blaming myself and wondering what I had done wrong. Now that Iread up on bunny do's and don't (I never had the internet untilrecently) I see that the lettuce would have been a huge no-no. Not sureif that's what killed her but I suspect that and a lack of roughage (nowhere was hay mentioned in these rabbit books) and too much lettuce wasthe cause.

But now I choose not to feed lettuce and a lot of other veg as I knowhow sensitive rabbit digestive systems can be. I was unlucky withBunbun as she showed no symptoms, one minute she was ok, the next shewas dead. I still love Dodge, Stew and Gingernut as much as I didBunbun :inlove:, and I choose not to feed too many greens, not becauseI am mean but because I am kind!

 

[maherwoman]

So, to those that don't feed their buns greens,Maisie would be fine (perhaps even better) without them? I'vebeen concerned because we don't necessarily have the means to give herthe veggies I was told she would need, and now I find out she mightactually be healthier if she DOESN'T have them. She's neverhad a problem with cecals (other than when I was feeding her pelletfood with too much protein), or any kind of runny poo, but if it'sbetter to not give her the veggies, I will most certainly abstain.

It wouldn't be too terrible if I didn't have to worry about thatanymore, considering the only veggies I see her literally runningacross the cage for are romaine lettuce and carrots with theirtops. (I've tried quite a few other choices, but to not muchresult.)

Any ideas?