Too young to neuter?

Discussion in 'Rabbit Veterinarian List' started by Lauren Simonelli, Jun 20, 2019.

Help Support Rabbits Online by donating:

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jun 20, 2019 #1

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    I purchased a friend for my female bunny (Jelly), because I thought she would like to have company. Turns out, she's violently antisocial toward other rabbits. (Only rabbits. She's fine with humans, cats, and dogs.) I had her spayed, hoping she would calm down, but she got even more aggressive afterward.
    I built a separate cage for the new bunny (Bean), but it was evident she was DESPERATE for companionship. She would keep trying to make friends with Jelly, even though she was severely bullied.
    I caved and got another rabbit friend for Bean. They bonded beautifully, but now the baby (Macaroon) is 11 weeks old and began humping. He was too small to gender accurately, so we thought he was a girl at the pet shop. Turns out, penis.
    I've been calling around to exotic vets in the area, but no one will neuter him this young. They require either 6 months of age or 2 lbs. Now I have to keep them separate, but both rabbits are showing distress from the separation.
    What can I do to get them back together without making accidental babies? They're both too young to be fixed. (According to the vets I've spoken with. )
     
  2. Jun 20, 2019 #2

    zupper

    zupper

    zupper

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    311
    Location:
    null
    Bean and Macaroon bonded beautifully because babies are always easy to bond but they will change when hit puberty and can start fighting or in your case producing new babies so don't be sorry about breaking this bond it's not a real bond at all. If you want to neuter/spay them you can try bonding them after 6-8 weeks after surgery, introducing them as completely new rabbits to each other.

    You didn't say what age is Bean and Jelly and how long ago Jelly was spayed. And what breed are all your rabbits?

    If Macaroon is 11 weeks you can still keep them together for another couple weeks, well depending on his breed, because some breeds are known for becoming fertile earlier, but generally from 14 weeks they should be separated. Also their behaviour will change then.

    For males neutering starts at 4,5 months and for female about 6 months it depends on their breed too and if your vet is experienced enough with rabbits. You will have to keep them all separately until then and 6-8 weeks after.
     
    Popsicles and Blue eyes like this.
  3. Jun 21, 2019 #3

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    To start, all the rabbits are Netherland dwarves. Jelly came from a breeder that, from what I can tell, is no longer in business. She is 4 this summer, and was spayed around March. I wanted a friend for her sooner, but there were no other places nearby that sold Netherland Dwarves, so she was alone for most of her life.
    After moving to a new city, I randomly found a highly rated and independently owned pet store that sold them. All the animals there are very socialized and well cared for, so I felt comfortable buying from them. I even got the opportunity to go into the Employee Only area when buying Bean, and it was all very legit.

    I would strongly argue that Bean and Macaroon are not 'truly' bonded based on how they reacted after being separated. They're currently chewing their cage to oblivion trying to reunite. The cage they are sharing is store bought, so it's not sturdy wood. I'm REALLY not looking forward to working in the humid mid-summer Florida heat building another cage, so I'm keeping that as my last option.
    I also am reticent to keep Bean and Macaroon together at this point, because that's how 'accidents' happen.
    I've had Bean for 4 months, and Jelly has never warmed up to her. She is actively violent, going out of her way to hunt the others down. If she sees them through the cage, she will attack the screen. It's just not safe to house Bean with her. She's a lunatic. The funny thing is, if the cat walks by the cage, Jelly doesn't react. She hops around freely with the dogs and cats, no problem. I didn't expect her to have a blood lust for bunny meat. We've made the joke for years that she's got the soul of a tiger, because she's never acted like a prey animal.
    I may very well have to start drawing up some blueprints for a new cage at this rate, but it's not going to change the fact that the rabbits are acting out and being destructive after being separated. I've even considered putting puppy diapers on one of them so they can socialize freely in their playpen during the day. At this point I don't know what's worse... 2 emotionally distressed rabbits or an 'accidental' litter. I mean, who doesn't want to roll around in a pile of bunny babies? =) I've seen online that male rabbits can be neutered as soon as the testicles descend, but I can't find a vet that is willing to do it until he is 2 lbs or 6 months old.
     
  4. Jun 21, 2019 #4

    zupper

    zupper

    zupper

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    311
    Location:
    null
    So, Jelly is 4 years old now and spayed about 3 months ago. She was very good all 4 years but suddenly became very bad and violent when you got another female rabbit about 4 months ago.

    Bean is about 6 months old now if you got her at 8 weeks. She's sweet and nicely bonded with Macaroon. When you got her she was 2 months old and Jelly wasn't spayed yet, right? You put Bean into Jellies private territory and Jelly went nuts? Two unspayed females, one still a baby also new home for her but Jelly is an adult female and she's just got territorial when you placed another female into her turf. She was trying to protect her territory from other female, that's normal.

    Macaroon is 11 weeks, it's a boy. He's very sweet and bonded with Bean. You have him for max 3 weeks now.
    He's just a very small breed and vets don't want to take risk so you will need to wait anyway.

    As I understand Bean is about 6 months now and can be spayed right away and you can place them back together after she's healed?

    Also, I don't know your plans for Jelly but after Bean is spayed and healed you can try introducing them again as completely new rabbits in a neutral territory maybe they will bond? But you have to keep them all separated and so they can't see each other for a few weeks at least so they had time to forget each other.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    Blue eyes and Popsicles like this.
  5. Jun 21, 2019 #5

    Preitler

    Preitler

    Preitler

    Loony bunny guy Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    787
    Likes Received:
    459
    Location:
    Austria
    SInce he is a small breed I would seperate them soon, dwarfs can mature as early as 10 weeks (some say even earlier in rare cases), I got a surprise litter last year because they got together accidentially at around 13-14 weeks - and mine are 8-10lbs rabbits, not dwarfs.
     
    Blue eyes likes this.
  6. Jun 21, 2019 #6

    Blue eyes

    Blue eyes

    Blue eyes

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    5,974
    Likes Received:
    2,130
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    This doesn't mean Jelly can't have a bondmate. For one, females are typically territorial. Her behavior with an 'intruder rabbit' is typical. She just needs to find the right match. This can be done by having her meet already fixed rabbits to pre-screen for potential compatibility. Bonding is a process (though some get lucky and the bonding is quick).

    It isn't great for her to have to be in sight of the other two because that makes her want to defend her territory from these intruders (whom she does not like). This in no way means that she won't be able to find a cuddle bun with which to bond. That is a whole separate issue. With the right bun she should be just fine with bonding. They can be very choosy about who they accept.

    This is why baby 'bonds' are not considered true bonds. He needs to be separated from her now to prevent pregnancy. If you did not separate them, it is likely she would tire of his advances and a fight could break out. This is why baby bonds don't count. It can all change during this hormonal time. Hormones (not love) are driving them to each other but that doesn't mean it would be roses if they did get together -- a fight would be just as likely. Just keep them separated until they've healed from surgery. Allowing them to interact right not will NOT do them any good. Put them out of sight of each other to calm them down.
     
    zupper and Alyssa and Bugs♡ like this.
  7. Jun 21, 2019 #7

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Poopy Poo,
    Your numbers are off, but that's understandable. As I mentioned before, Both Mac AND Bean are still too young to get fixed, according to the vets. Bean is still only 5 months, and not yet a full 2 lbs. That's my dilemma. They're miserable without each other, but I can't house them together while there is a chance of pregnancy. I was hoping someone on here may have some sort of trick or workaround until they're old enough to get fixed.
    I've owned rabbits my whole life, and I get what you're hinting at about Jelly being territorial, but it's NOT normal territorial behavior. It became even worse after getting her fixed. You'll just have to trust me when I tell you that I did EVERYTHING possible for a successful introduction. She is just an anomaly. I've only ever had one rabbit more aggressive and he was an absolute psychopath, unfit to be anyone's pet.
     
  8. Jun 21, 2019 #8

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    Lauren Simonelli

    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2019
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Saint Petersburg, FL
    Ok, I need to clarify a few things for the sake of this post, because I'm getting really agitated.
    1.) I don't care about Jelly's behavioral issues. I'm not an unknowledgable pet owner. I'm 34, and I've had rabbits my whole life. I know the difference between normal and abnormal rabbit personality traits. I've done everything possible for a successful introduction, but Jelly has not responded to it. I've resigned myself to the fact that she prefers to be a solitary rabbit. I don't need anymore armchair expertise on this topic, especially since it detracts from the real subject of this post.
    2.) Please read my posts more carefully BEFORE commenting, because I'm getting advice based on confused information.
    3.) I DON'T CARE if your opinion is that my rabbits aren't 'truly' bonded. You can keep that to yourself. You don't see my rabbits on a daily basis to know how distressed they are. If they weren't CLEARLY upset, I wouldn't be on here asking for help from strangers.
    I understand this situation is my fault, because I got a male rabbit by accident. I thought Mac might be a male at the pet store, but my husband (with little to no rabbit knowledge) and the pet store cashier (whom I think was a new hire) kept insisting Mac's genitals looked female. I have bad eyesight (despite wearing glasses) due to a medical condition, so I acquiesced to their judgement. It should have occurred to me at the time that even if they could see the genitals better, it doesn't matter if they don't know what to look for.
    Hindsight is 20/20, and what's done is done. All I care about now is keeping Mac and Bean happy until they can get fixed. That's why I'm asking for help.
     
  9. Jun 21, 2019 #9

    Blue eyes

    Blue eyes

    Blue eyes

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2012
    Messages:
    5,974
    Likes Received:
    2,130
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Your agitation is not called for. If people misunderstand, it's just a misunderstanding -- nothing to get upset about. We are all here trying to help, trying to offer suggestions. Long-time members know better than to assume that a new member has x-amount of rabbit knowledge.

    If you don't want people's opinions ...
    ... then maybe you should not be on such a forum.

    I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that that comment was just stated in anger.

    Here is one answer to your question:
    If you want to keep Mac and Bean happy until both can be fixed and have time to heal (4-8 weeks after surgery) then keep them separated and out of sight of each other. Putting them together occasionally will only serve to re-ignite their angst.

    This defensive comment can't be ignored. It leans towards claiming yourself an expert which itself does not lend itself to being receptive to anyone's suggestions. Unless you've introduced Jelly to multiple different rabbits -- each of which was already fixed -- then you did not do 'everything possible.' (you only mentioned getting Bean to try to bond with her)

    Please do consider notching down the agitation. If you hang around on the forum more and get to know us, I think you'll find that we really have all of our rabbits' best interests in mind.
     
  10. Jun 21, 2019 #10

    zupper

    zupper

    zupper

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    311
    Location:
    null
    Apologise I didn't mean to upset you with my comment I thought you were asking for help and I just tried to analyse your situation and identify your problem.

    In my opinion, and as more people on this thread commented, your real issue was BEFORE you got this Male rabbit, because of putting a new young female together with one old unfixed female living with you for 4 years made her territorial and she's not a psycho as you described she's just territorial and trying to protect herself, she can go violent too, but she's not guilty there it's just you put her into a conflict situation and now made this situation even worse purchasing a new rabbit. This situation can be fixed by FULLY separating both females until Bean spayed and healed, you already spayed Jelly that's very good you just have to make her forget about the conflict so absolutely separated and so they cannot see and smell each other for a month or so, then you can introduce them slowly as completely new rabbits and hopefully they can bond. There's lots of information on bonding process you have to provide new neutral territory where they can meet this takes time and effort, if you want to really improve situation and not just dump Jelly saying she's a psycho and unfit to be with other rabbits she'll be a solitary rabbit.

    The second problem that you don't want to believe what experienced people say that babies don't bond and Beans and Macaroons bond will dissolve after he hits puberty. They need to be separated as soon as possible until they both are fixed and healed, otherwise you will have another conflict that could end in tears, fur and blood, because when he will be following her attempting to mate her and she will become annoyed she can hurt him really badly and she won't be as sweet as she is now because it's going to be a huge stress for her she can become territorial and violent against you as well.

    So best solution in your situation in my opinion would be to separate all three rabbits so they can't see and smell each other until they are all fixed and about 6-8 weeks after that, I am sorry if you don't like what I say but it's true and you asked for opinions of people on this forum so we are just trying to help but you don't want to accept any other opinion because you already have your own plan just looking for some tricks but completely ignore the main problem and why you have this problem.

    Please try accept other people's opinion you don't have to blindly follow them but just try to respect them and maybe be flexible if you came here to learn something.

    I feel sorry for your Jelly it is all very stressful situation for her no wonder that she's going crazy.

    Again, I didn't mean to irritate you I commented here because you asked for opinions. Good luck with solving your problems.
     
  11. Jun 21, 2019 #11
    Lauren if you're not going to be polite you will be moved to moderated posting. Next you will be removed completely.
    You asked for advice and others are giving you sound and accurate advice. This is for the health and SAFETY of your rabbits
    Your rabbits should be seperated.
    Topic closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page