This poor family

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I'm in Canada. This sounds fishy to me up here!
If the family raised and sold this many animals and we supplying a major petstore chain then they must have had a heck of a lot of bunnies on their property. Which would mean excessive inbreeding and constant pregnancies for the does in order to maintain the profit while also churning out rabbits from multiple does. To keep up with the supposed demand for their precious awesome show quality, yet meat quality bunnies.
It sounds like for that kind of money they were running a mill, not a "humane" small business to teach their son about business and responsibility.

I don;t know what the economy is like down in the States but this could have been a way for the family to make money on the side. And the reporters and the author of the article failed to supply the essential details either because of journalist restrictions or lack of knowledge but this article seems bogus to me.
4 million dollars if they don't some up with 90'000 by May?!?!?!
 
I feel a little weird posting here, because I don't really see what exactly they were doing wrong. Some pet stores are good, some are not. I don't think they were doing any of the bad things you hear about breeding, BUT it is a little fishy that they had enough bunnies for pet stores. However, I think it's a ridiculous amount of money to ask for, especially since they never were told exactly what law they were violating. I feel sorry for this family.
 
I do agree with many of you that it's surprising that a family running such a large business would be unaware of the USDA regulations. However, that could happen. Meat breeding/production is not USDA regulated, according to the USDA spokesperson I spoke to over the phone. The reason this family was fined was because they violated a law concerning commercial pet sales.

Aside from violating a law over cash flow, it's unfair to assume the family was doing anything wrong by the rabbits without more knowledge of the situation. Caring for around 600 rabbits over the course of one year would not be uncommon in a meat operation. In fact, it would not be uncommon in a show situation either. If you have 50 does (which is considered a normal, small-medium size rabbitry) producing two litters per year, with approximately 6 babies in each litter, there's 600 rabbits right there, easily. That would be an average litter size for commercial breeds, and a rather low production rate. It is more common for show and breeding does to be bred about 3 times/year, which would lower the number of does necessary for production.

For meat or pet purposes, the kits were likely sold at 8 weeks old. Which means most of those rabbits were not actually being housed and cared for at the family home for an extended period of time.

So, no excessive inbreeding or constant pregnancy is necessary. That doesn't mean that this situation in particular was otherwise in compliance with USDA regulations for care. However, it's certainly within reason to say that this was a pretty typical production situation and that the rabbits were well cared for. Whether or not you agree with why they were breeding is another situation by itself. But this case isn't inherently abusive or neglectful, from the information we're provided with.
 
OakRidgeRabbits said:
I do agree with many of you that it's surprising that a family running such a large business would be unaware of the USDA regulations. However, that could happen. Meat breeding/production is not USDA regulated, according to the USDA spokesperson I spoke to over the phone. The reason this family was fined was because they violated a law concerning commercial pet sales.

Aside from violating a law over cash flow, it's unfair to assume the family was doing anything wrong by the rabbits without more knowledge of the situation. Caring for around 600 rabbits over the course of one year would not be uncommon in a meat operation. In fact, it would not be uncommon in a show situation either. If you have 50 does (which is considered a normal, small-medium size rabbitry) producing two litters per year, with approximately 6 babies in each litter, there's 600 rabbits right there, easily. That would be an average litter size for commercial breeds, and a rather low production rate. It is more common for show and breeding does to be bred about 3 times/year, which would lower the number of does necessary for production.

For meat or pet purposes, the kits were likely sold at 8 weeks old. Which means most of those rabbits were not actually being housed and cared for at the family home for an extended period of time.

So, no excessive inbreeding or constant pregnancy is necessary. That doesn't mean that this situation in particular was otherwise in compliance with USDA regulations for care. However, it's certainly within reason to say that this was a pretty typical production situation and that the rabbits were well cared for. Whether or not you agree with why they were breeding is another situation by itself. But this case isn't inherently abusive or neglectful, from the information we're provided with.
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That's very well put!
 
Marrie said:
Further information on the case:
Between 2008 and 2009 they sold 619 rabbits, which earned them $4,600, with a profit of about $200."
619 rabbits, as both meat, pets.
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$200 profit / 619 rabbits = $0.32 profit per rabbit

So for a few cents they were willing to abuse and kill a rabbit. Not only were they extremely poor "businessmen" they are poor excuses for humans.
 
Hyatt101 said:
I don't think they were abusing and killing rabbits....
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Does the term "meat rabbit" have any meaning to you?

Do you think that those rabbits were given room to run, dig and frolic, to do what rabbits are meant to do or is it more likely that they were crammed into cages without outdoor access?
 
There is just something about this story not adding up, and I can't figure out who or what to believe because of it. Somebody is leaving some information out somewhere.
 
BunBuns Human said:
Does the term "meat rabbit" have any meaning to you?

Do you think that those rabbits were given room to run, dig and frolic, to do what rabbits are meant to do or is it more likely that they were crammed into cages without outdoor access?
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I know that most of us on here are against raising rabbits for meat, but it is something that is done. We don't know for sure that these rabbits were in "such horrible conditions". Yes, the cages were small, but they may have been getting exercise.

I think it is extremely unfair to say that they are "poor excuses for humans".
 
Hyatt101 said:
I know that most of us on here are against raising rabbits for meat, but it is something that is done. We don't know for sure that these rabbits were in "such horrible conditions". Yes, the cages were small, but they may have been getting exercise.

I think it is extremely unfair to say that they are "poor excuses for humans".
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It is completely unfair to say that meat rabbits are automatically abused. I am aware of some extremely humane operations. Unless you are a vegan, I don't really feel you have room to talk here, as all meat comes from animals albeit different species. If you are a vegan, try not to judge other people for not believing the way you do.
 
BinkyBunny said:
It is completely unfair to say that meat rabbits are automatically abused. I am aware of some extremely humane operations. Unless you are a vegan, I don't really feel you have room to talk here, as all meat comes from animals albeit different species. If you are a vegan, try not to judge other people for not believing the way you do.
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Oh no, I was trying to say that we SHOULD be respectful of people who raise meat rabbits, and that just because these were meat rabbits doesn't mean they were abused. Im not a vegan, i actually love meat. Sorry, that's what I meant. I just worded it wrong :)
 
Hyatt101 said:
Oh no, I was trying to say that we SHOULD be respectful of people who raise meat rabbits, and that just because these were meat rabbits doesn't mean they were abused. Im not a vegan, i actually love meat. Sorry, that's what I meant. I just worded it wrong :)
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I knew what you meant! I quoted the wrong person thinking it would grab both quotes! I was speaking to Bun Buns Human. I too love meat. Petting the mini pig down the street has seriously dampened my bacon eating :foreheadsmack:
 
BinkyBunny said:
I knew what you meant! I quoted the wrong person thinking it would grab both quotes! I was speaking to Bun Buns Human. I too love meat. Petting the mini pig down the street has seriously dampened my bacon eating :foreheadsmack:
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That's fine ;) I thought you were talking to me!
 
BinkyBunny said:
Unless you are a vegan, I don't really feel you have room to talk here, as all meat comes from animals albeit different species.
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That is nonsense as not all animals are created equal, as they say at Chik-Fil-A: eat mo' chicken. There is a reason that calling someone a birdbrain is an insult.

Kill and eat a chimp or a dolphin and the Feds will put you in prison. Just a few miles from here a coupla' weeks ago there were multiple felony arrests for killing horses for meat. Sell any article in Florida made with cat hair and you get to go to jail. Dog and cat owners here in the US simply would not permit the raising of dogs and cats for meat even though they are eaten in other cultures. Rabbits are intelligent, trainable and emotionally complex animals and deserve the same legal protections that dolphins, chimps, horses, dogs and cats have. I have never had a dog that was as smart and as trainable as my buns.
 
I would rather have the thousands of rabbits being kept in horrible conditions, or being set free to experience the tortures of the wilderness, be culled HUMANELY for meat than to have to experience these things.

But, this is one of those instances where we are going to have to agree to disagree, as the forum decorum policy states. We all have our opinions, and while I don't agree with breeding for meat, I'm certainly not going to judge anybody who does so. It appalls me, but there are things worse than death, as mentioned above, and I don't know anybody's given situation enough to judge them.

At any rate, I also think there is something else going on here. But we'll never know because of the awesome journalism being put into action here! (Rule #1 of journalism is to be unbiased and stick with the facts, this makes me laugh!)

I was wondering about licenses and such as well, but of course the article states that they have broken no laws. I also agree that the amount being fined is a little excessive, but maybe they're having a problem with backyard breeders in the area and need to make a statement? Either way, it's a bit much.
 
kkiddle said:
I would rather have the thousands of rabbits being kept in horrible conditions, or being set free to experience the tortures of the wilderness, be culled HUMANELY for meat than to have to experience these things.

But, this is one of those instances where we are going to have to agree to disagree, as the forum decorum policy states. We all have our opinions, and while I don't agree with breeding for meat, I'm certainly not going to judge anybody who does so. It appalls me, but there are things worse than death, as mentioned above, and I don't know anybody's given situation enough to judge them.

At any rate, I also think there is something else going on here. But we'll never know because of the awesome journalism being put into action here! (Rule #1 of journalism is to be unbiased and stick with the facts, this makes me laugh!)

I was wondering about licenses and such as well, but of course the article states that they have broken no laws. I also agree that the amount being fined is a little excessive, but maybe they're having a problem with backyard breeders in the area and need to make a statement? Either way, it's a bit much.
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So, they didn't have a license, right? But were they required to, I can't remember.... This story has gotten confusing! Are they going to pay the fine? ( I also think its too much to ask them to pay)
 
None of the breeders in our area are required to have a liscense or register their animals in any way, unless of course if they are an ARBA member or something, but that is optional. There is no way that rabbit breeders are tracked unless there are complaints from neighbours/clients about animal conditions.
 
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