This is why I don't buy from pet stores

[GorbyJobRabbits]

and one last thing about rabbit rescues. I dunno how many times I've been randomly searching for stuff online, and I come across rabbit rescues, and a few of the rabbits listed were 'rescued from being snake food'.

I love rabbits. like LOVE rabbits....but snakes have to eat too. And its annoying that people bring more rabbits to a rescue because it was going to be snake food.

I don't personally have snakes that are large enough to eat rabbits.. and I keep it that way, but anyway that just annoys me.

 

[Zyzra]

My parents have a friends who thinks it is horrible that pet stores sell live crickets to feed to reptiles. Talk about extreme.

 

[swanlake]

Have any of you read the book "Stories Rabbits Tell"? It is very good and has a lot on the fur, meat, and bunny mill industry, as well as how the rabbit came into popular culture. I recomend it.

On another note, just wanted to say I have one pet shop bunny, Fred. I must say the shop I got him from was local and horrible. Two rabbits and a gunnea pig in one tiny enclosure! He also had poo all over his behind. Poor guy, I remember the day after I brought him home he cleaned himself up and was way more perky. These animals know when they are being treated wrong.

I am very fortunate to work with a rescue, and I have fostered many wonderful buns. I am also proud to say our rescue works with many pet stores, inculing some petsmarts, to adopt out our bunnies. They will take one of our possible adoptees into their store instead of having ones to sell. I think this is truly the way to go.

 

[Happi Bun]

The rabbit rescue I work with has taken in snake food rabbit's. I do not agree with feeding live food to a snake. It's very dangerous for the snake and inhumane for the rabbit. People argue that it's natural so that justifies it. No, it's a natural behavior in an unnatural environment. Feeding live in a enclosed tank gives an unfair advantage to the predator. In nature the prey has some chance of escaping with it's life. Every single large chain reptile supplier, wildlife rehab, and Zoo I've come across doesn't feed live to their snakes. For the reasons above.

That's all I'm saying on that subject, because quite honestly this thread is about Pet Mill's, Petsmart, and Pet Stores. Not live feeding rabbit's to snakes.

I feel breeders and pet stores are obligated to screen potential buyers on proper care. They don't necessarily have to educate the person, but they should test their knowledge. Pet stores are especially bad when it comes to having someone sign a piece of paper that they are never going enforce anyway.

 

[BethM]

Happi Bun wrote:

I feel breeders and pet stores are obligated to screen potential buyers on proper care. They don't necessarily have to educate the person, but they should test their knowledge. Pet stores are especially bad when it comes to having someone sign a piece of paper that they are never going enforce anyway.

I don't think it's too much to ask pet stores to give out a bit of information with their rabbits. Many people I know have a general idea about how to care for a dog or cat, but not a rabbit.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

AndersonsRabbits wrote:

Getting info on an animal: its not the responsibility of the breeder to educate. If you're interested in an animal its your job to educate yourself before you get it. I raise reptiles, and I can't say enough how annoyed I am to go to a show and hear people go OMG ITS SOO CUTE! and buy it, and have NO clue what they need prepared. Yeah you can call and talk to someone before you get an animal, but showing up to buy it and then asking what it needs... DUMB.

THANK YOU! This was exactly my point.

I do not feel that it is my responsibility as a breeder to educate the new owner. I do make sure that they understand how and what to feed, where to house, etc., but that is only for my personal sanity. It's not because I feel that anyone holds the responsibility there.

A person who actually wants an animal will do the research or ask for the information without a prompt. Yes, rescues and some breeders do "screen" potential owners and kind of make sure they have a general idea of what's going on. But the people who do are the ones who took the initiative to do it themselves. I have NEVER come across a totally ignorant person, lectured them about rabbit care, and seen ANY change in them at all.

My entire point in the post was that the consumer (whether it's of an animal, a car, or a box of soap) must hold the responsibility for their education. I think we give pet stores and backyard breeders a little too much credit for their success. When it's essentially the customer's responsibility to end it.

 

[BethM]

I believe we've strayed away from the original topic............However you feel about consumer education, it is still NOT RIGHT for these pet stores to be getting their animals (rabbits or other animals) from mills.

 

[TinysMom]

AndersonsRabbits wrote:

Getting info on an animal: its not the responsibility of the breeder to educate. If you're interested in an animal its your job to educate yourself before you get it. I raise reptiles, and I can't say enough how annoyed I am to go to a show and hear people go OMG ITS SOO CUTE! and buy it, and have NO clue what they need prepared. Yeah you can call and talk to someone before you get an animal, but showing up to buy it and then asking what it needs... DUMB.

I guess this is where we disagree. I think it is the RESPONSIBLITY of every breeder to educate or be willing to educate the buyer - not for the buyer's sake - but for the sake of the animal you have bred. It is like you're responsible to that animal to try and make sure they'll go to a good home.

However - that is just my personal opinion and I know that opinions are like feet - we all have 'em - some stink - and as my husband often reminds me (of mine) - after a while - they should be kept covered!! :biggrin2:

This is a very interesting discussion....

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

TinysMom wrote:

AndersonsRabbits wrote:

Getting info on an animal: its not the responsibility of the breeder to educate. If you're interested in an animal its your job to educate yourself before you get it. I raise reptiles, and I can't say enough how annoyed I am to go to a show and hear people go OMG ITS SOO CUTE! and buy it, and have NO clue what they need prepared. Yeah you can call and talk to someone before you get an animal, but showing up to buy it and then asking what it needs... DUMB.

I guess this is where we disagree. I think it is the RESPONSIBLITY of every breeder to educate or be willing to educate the buyer - not for the buyer's sake - but for the sake of the animal you have bred. It is like you're responsible to that animal to try and make sure they'll go to a good home.

However - that is just my personal opinion and I know that opinions are like feet - we all have 'em - some stink - and as my husband often reminds me (of mine) - after a while - they should be kept covered!! :biggrin2:

This is a very interesting discussion....

I have to say that I think it's both the new owner'sresponsibility AND the breeder'sresponsibility to educate about the care of an animal.

The buyers I've dealt with have usually previously owned a bunny before, so they know how to care for them, however, I will point out the routine care for that specific animal they are interested in - such as feeding, exercise, etc. and I do offer my phone numberand e-mail to them if they need any help.

I too would find it a little annoyingif someone approached me and asked to buy a rabbit and then had no idea what they needed - at least some research on the care of the animal is important - but, I wouldn't deny them help; I would do whatI could to help them out.It's still YOUR job, as the breeder to educate them about things they might now know - such as taking care of rabbits in the heat, proper housing, etc. And of course, breeders should ask the potential buyers if they have any questions and help them the best they can.

I know that when I sell an animal, I want the buyer to know how to care for them because I don't want them to end up ill, or with worse consequences. I'm sure that in the back of every breeder's mind, they wonder how the rabbits they've sold are doing. I know I wonder that - and it's not just once after the rabbit leaves; it's a constant reminder. A reminder that you should help rabbits owners to learn all that they can so that they can help prevent anything happening to the rabbit - to help it live it's life to the fullest.

Emily

 

[BethM]

Am I mistaken to assume there is a little bit of a difference between a person who buys from a breeder, vs. someone who buys at a pet store? They would not always be different, I know. But a person who walks through a pet store, and sees a cute baby bunny, is much more likely to make an uneducated impulse buy. Especially in stores where the babies are priced very low.
Someone would have to actively seek out a breeder, most of the time, yes? If they went to a breeder, I also assume the customer would be likely to interact with someone who knows about rabbit care? I apologize to any current or former pet store employees here who might actually know something about the animals in the stores, but the people in the stores I've been in don't know jack about the animals. All they try to do is sell you stuff.

My first rabbits were based on an impulse at a pet store. I saw the cute babies, looked at cage prices, had NO idea about rabbits. Went home (had to get permission from the landlord) and did some research, and ended up adopting from a rescue instead.

 

[TinysMom]

BethM wrote:

Am I mistaken to assume there is a little bit of a difference between a person who buys from a breeder, vs. someone who buys at a pet store? They would not always be different, I know. But a person who walks through a pet store, and sees a cute baby bunny, is much more likely to make an uneducated impulse buy. Especially in stores where the babies are priced very low.
Someone would have to actively seek out a breeder, most of the time, yes? If they went to a breeder, I also assume the customer would be likely to interact with someone who knows about rabbit care? I apologize to any current or former pet store employees here who might actually know something about the animals in the stores, but the people in the stores I've been in don't know jack about the animals. All they try to do is sell you stuff.

My first rabbits were based on an impulse at a pet store. I saw the cute babies, looked at cage prices, had NO idea about rabbits. Went home (had to get permission from the landlord) and did some research, and ended up adopting from a rescue instead.

I was reading this week about a person who sells her rabbits at an exotics pet show in a major metropolitan area that is held 3 or 4 times per year. They split the cost of a booth with someone else ($30 for the day maybe?) and take a bunch of rabbits to sell. I'm not going to share here about how she does it because it goes so much against everything I believe and I don't want members of the forum somehow tracking her down and flaming her...

I'm sure she must share some information about her rabbits with the people as they buy them...and the person she shares the booth with sells cages he makes himself (if I understand right).

She is a well-known breeder even for the breed...

But I just don't feel like customers in that setting could get the information that they really need.

I mean one of the first things out of my mouth when people are looking at a rabbit are, "This can be a commitment of 5 years or more..."

One of the things I like about being a breeder is that I always reserve the right to refuse to sell to anyone for any reason - and I have done that more than once. That used to be on my website and if I had people over- I had a sign that stated that also.

Anyway - yes - people often have to seek out a breeder - unless the breeder is listing cute babies on CraigsList or something like that - and then it could be an impulse decision.

 

[BethM]

TinysMom wrote

Anyway - yes - people often have to seek out a breeder - unless the breeder is listing cute babies on CraigsList or something like that - and then it could be an impulse decision.

Oh, I know there are ways that people get their bunnies "out there." I just meant, in general.

I don't browse Craigslist, or go to shows or fairs, so if I were to want to buy direct from a breeder, I would have to seek someone out. But I could go to the pet store down the street, and they've always got an aquarium full of baby bunnies.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

BethM wrote:

Am I mistaken to assume there is a little bit of a difference between a person who buys from a breeder, vs. someone who buys at a pet store?

You would be surprised. I can tell you, on behalf of myself and all other breeders out there, that we get our fair share of nutcases as well.You're correct in saying that of course these people will be in greater abundance at a pet store since it's more of an impulse there, upon seeing baby bunnies,than outright misinformation or lack of information that we'll face as breeders reading e-mails. But I think I can speak for us all in saying that we get plenty of ridiculous e-mails from people who have clearly done no research and are totally uneducated about the care of a rabbit and still want one.

 

[irishbunny]

When I'm rehoming rabbits I really do feel it's my responsibilty to make sure they go to someone where they will be taken care of properly, so, my bunnies come with manuals lol! I give anyone who is taking a bunny off me a small folder with about four pages of information, link to my rabbit care site & my forum, and my email address.

I think whether you are a breeder, pet owner rehoming, or a rescue. Once you take on a rabbit or breed a litter, they are your responsibility and you should do all you can to place them in the best homes possible. Education is key.

 

[Whipple]

AndersonsRabbits wrote:

and one last thing about rabbit rescues. I dunno how many times I've been randomly searching for stuff online, and I come across rabbit rescues, and a few of the rabbits listed were 'rescued from being snake food'.

I love rabbits. like LOVE rabbits....but snakes have to eat too. And its annoying that people bring more rabbits to a rescue because it was going to be snake food.

I don't personally have snakes that are large enough to eat rabbits.. and I keep it that way, but anyway that just annoys me.

I think Im getting off topic here, but I needed to mention this. I used to raise mice for pets. I was totally against them as snake food.

Years later, and years ago I was planning on raising rats as food/pets. I researched the most humane ways to care for and then kill them as I do not believe in feeding live unless the snake wont taken frozen thawed. Anyhow, I went to a rat forum and asked. I got flamed!

So I decided not to breed. Snake owners did not take good care of their feeders, so that wasnt a good source (generally, I just didnt find one that did although there might be), and the pet owners wanted nothing to do with me.

I believe in being truthful. So if I was to raise meat rabbits, I would say that. And I would still do my best to give them the best quality of life, however long it was, then a quick and painless death. And so far, rabbit people are the only ones I have found to be sensible in that way (for the most part).

Back to the topic at hand. I saw the youtube video along time ago. Horrible and I am so grateful the people who created it got all that out. Although they are very biased, so is "the other side". People just need to learn common sense. Sadly that is not often the case.

 

[TinysMom]

Whipple wrote:

I believe in being truthful. So if I was to raise meat rabbits, I would say that. And I would still do my best to give them the best quality of life, however long it was, then a quick and painless death. And so far, rabbit people are the only ones I have found to be sensible in that way (for the most part).

I just want to clarify for the forum and our newer members that we WELCOME meat breeders with open arms - we just don't discuss meat breeding on the forum or things like methods of euthanization (unless we have a special case come up in the rabbitry which is for breeders to discuss things that don't always pertain to pet owners).

Just thought I'd clarify that (in advance) in case a discussion came up!

 

[Whipple]

TinysMom wrote:

we just don't discuss meat breeding on the forum or things like methods of euthanization

No worries, I wouldn't. I learned my lesson.

Just curious, why would meat breeding be any different from pet/show breedin practices. This is what I never understood, the animals should still be raised with respect, no matter what the reason for being created.

 

[TinysMom]

I'll drop you a pm Whipple!

 

[luvall]

Whipple wrote:

TinysMom wrote:

we just don't discuss meat breeding on the forum or things like methods of euthanization

No worries, I wouldn't. I learned my lesson.

Just curious, why would meat breeding be any different from pet/show breedin practices. This is what I never understood, the animals should still be raised with respect, no matter what the reason for being created.

Iam 100% with you on that one! I believe that because people don't NEED to eat animals (or any of their products) to live, we shouldn't..... But, some animals NEED to eat rabbits, or mice to live, and those rabbits or mice (or whatever they my be) should have the best quality of life possible!!!!!!