This is why I don't buy from pet stores

[BethM]

Baby Juliet wrote:

I really doubt she would have blown her cover if she gave aid and comfort to the animals unless the company policy was to let them suffer.

Why so negative? Your negativity should be directed at this breeder, not the person who has gone to the trouble of making the situation known to the public.

There's not much one person can do to make a big difference in an operation like that unless it's the owner of the mill. Come in off the street, start trying to make changes, and you'll be back out on the street. She might have been able to make one rabbit more comfortable, until she was kicked out, and then the poor conditions would go back to the way they were.

Making this video, and making it public, is a good way to get people to put pressure on the mill, or to make customers aware of the awful conditions these animals are raised in. If she was not upset by the situation, she would not have bothered making and releasing the video footage.

 

[BethM]

luvall wrote

Her job was health inspector which is dif. than like a vet..... But I kinda agree with you on that one. She should have atleast tried to help...

Making the video, and making it public IS trying to help.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

TBethM wrote:

luvall wrote

Her job was health inspector which is dif. than like a vet..... But I kinda agree with you on that one. She should have atleast tried to help...

Making the video, and making it public IS trying to help.

The maker of the video is only 17. I've seen many of those pictures before - I think she just got them off of Google and made her own video. I highly doubt a rabbit mill would hire a 17 year old to work there.

Emily

 

[luvall]

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

TBethM wrote:

luvall wrote

Her job was health inspector which is dif. than like a vet..... But I kinda agree with you on that one. She should have atleast tried to help...

Making the video, and making it public IS trying to help.

The maker of the video is only 17. I've seen many of those pictures before - I think she just got them off of Google and made her own video. I highly doubt a rabbit mill would hire a 17 year old to work there.

Emily

There are 2 dif videos. The slideshow one, and one made by someone older who was undercover....

 

[luvall]

BethM wrote:

Making the video, and making it public IS trying to help.

I agree!

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

luvall wrote:

BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:

TBethM wrote:

luvall wrote

Her job was health inspector which is dif. than like a vet..... But I kinda agree with you on that one. She should have atleast tried to help...

Making the video, and making it public IS trying to help.

The maker of the video is only 17. I've seen many of those pictures before - I think she just got them off of Google and made her own video. I highly doubt a rabbit mill would hire a 17 year old to work there.

Emily

There are 2 dif videos. The slideshow one, and one made by someone older who was undercover....

Ahh gotcha. Ionly watched the one on Youtube.

Emily

 

[Happi Bun]

I asked for a Petsmart Gift Card for Christmas... never mind. :cry1:

Does Petsmart still sell Rabbit's? I thought they stopped. I have never seen a Petsmart supplying rabbit's... only holding rabbit adoption events by local rescues. My heart aches for those poor creatures. Deplorable conditions with no respect or compassion for the creatures in their "care". It truly is living hell.

There is no way that PETA investigator would have gotten that footage had she actually spoken up like I'm sure she so desperately wanted to. While I disagree with a lot of their practices, their investigation into what kind of mills Petsmart supports is outstanding.

 

[Myia09]

FYI behind these videos..
Look. A lot of those animals were dead..guess what, it does happen, mill or not. I am sure breeders on this site will tell you they have had rabbits die. A litter died at birth. A rabbit fell ill and died.
I only buy my rabbits from breeders, however I have yet to find a hamster or parakeet breeder. For most people, the only place to get a animal is at a pet store.
I worked at Petsmart during the infamous '07-'08 where all the birds were sick and couldn't be sold in the entire east coast. More than 70 birds died just at my store..was I mad? Yes. But the supplier right away quarentine the birds and stopoed the breeding (It was highly contagious so it spread easily)
As for the fawn hamster, he had cancer and that was a tumor on his leg. Guess what, it happens, mill or not. The other syrian had wet tail, a very common illness amoung hamsters (think of it as the cold for humans)
I am all for regulating mills AND petstores, but these videos don't mean they are evil. When I worked, we had some deaths but we all tried really hard to take the best care possible of the animals, and my experiance that is the case with most pet stores.
Abuse happens, but don't let PETA take 10 stores and make a judgement on the entire company. They have failed to have a consistant case on Petsmart or Petco, hence why no lawsuits or enforcement has been taken upon them.
These videos are tragic and unfortunate, but yes, a very small amount of what acutally happens.
All I can say is file a petition in your state to regulate stores more..Arizona has already taken some initiative twoards care.
And if there is a petstore to ban, it is Petco. Petco out of the three largest chains (Petsmart and Pet Land) has the highest amounts of DOA (Dead on arival) and animal death. They also have the highest amount of citations. Petsmart is actually last on the list.
My store, btw, has ranked exceptional on care. In the 3 years I worked there, besides the bird flu, a very limited number of animals fell ill or died, and all were providded vet care, which is btw, a corporate regulation to take a ill animal to the vet.
I also work with the Arizona Humane Society as a foster home for "Exotic" (Anything that is not cat, dog, or equine) and have seen some horrible things from local breeders who pretended to be homey loving caregivers.
I am not attacking anyone or anyones beliefs, I just want everyone to know this is not the case with most. Also, petsmart no longer sells rabbits and petco is on the way to stop selling rabbits. As far as I am aware, no petco/petsmart sells rabbits in Arizona anymore.
Mills can be evil, but so can local breeders, owners, and anythign else you can think of. We just have to educate people and make laws are enforcement to stop abuse.

 

[BethM]

Myia09 wrote:

FYI behind these videos..
Look. A lot of those animals were dead..guess what, it does happen, mill or not. I am sure breeders on this site will tell you they have had rabbits die. A litter died at birth. A rabbit fell ill and died.
I only buy my rabbits from breeders, however I have yet to find a hamster or parakeet breeder. For most people, the only place to get a animal is at a pet store.
I worked at Petsmart during the infamous '07-'08 where all the birds were sick and couldn't be sold in the entire east coast. More than 70 birds died just at my store..was I mad? Yes. But the supplier right away quarentine the birds and stopoed the breeding (It was highly contagious so it spread easily)
As for the fawn hamster, he had cancer and that was a tumor on his leg. Guess what, it happens, mill or not. The other syrian had wet tail, a very common illness amoung hamsters (think of it as the cold for humans)
I am all for regulating mills AND petstores, but these videos don't mean they are evil. When I worked, we had some deaths but we all tried really hard to take the best care possible of the animals, and my experiance that is the case with most pet stores.
Abuse happens, but don't let PETA take 10 stores and make a judgement on the entire company. They have failed to have a consistant case on Petsmart or Petco, hence why no lawsuits or enforcement has been taken upon them.
These videos are tragic and unfortunate, but yes, a very small amount of what acutally happens.
All I can say is file a petition in your state to regulate stores more..Arizona has already taken some initiative twoards care.
And if there is a petstore to ban, it is Petco. Petco out of the three largest chains (Petsmart and Pet Land) has the highest amounts of DOA (Dead on arival) and animal death. They also have the highest amount of citations. Petsmart is actually last on the list.
My store, btw, has ranked exceptional on care. In the 3 years I worked there, besides the bird flu, a very limited number of animals fell ill or died, and all were providded vet care, which is btw, a corporate regulation to take a ill animal to the vet.
I also work with the Arizona Humane Society as a foster home for "Exotic" (Anything that is not cat, dog, or equine) and have seen some horrible things from local breeders who pretended to be homey loving caregivers.
I am not attacking anyone or anyones beliefs, I just want everyone to know this is not the case with most. Also, petsmart no longer sells rabbits and petco is on the way to stop selling rabbits. As far as I am aware, no petco/petsmart sells rabbits in Arizona anymore.
Mills can be evil, but so can local breeders, owners, and anythign else you can think of. We just have to educate people and make laws are enforcement to stop abuse.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about one particular store being exceptional in care, but that still doesn't make the company overall any better.
If I'm correct, the stores are franchises? They have to uphold standards set by the company, or else be shut down by the company. Therefore, stores with poor performance on their animal care are hitting the minimum standards set by the company, and nothing more than that. If the company as a whole truly cared, they would make their standards much higher, and hold their stores to those standards. This includes the breeders they get their animals from. Don't meet standards? Won't buy from them.

The PetsMarts around me never sold rabbits. There was only one PetCo out of 4 that did, and it has stopped. I STILL won't purchase animals from those stores, or from PetLand. In fact, I try to not shop at any of them, if at all possible. (I order feed directly from the mfgr, toys from Busy Bunny.) I also do not shop at TSC, as they sell chicks for quite a lot of the year, and bunnies in "bunny season." If that's how they want to practice, they don't need my dollars. I also make known their practices to others I know who truly care about animals, and they also find other sources for the things they need. Those pet stores, and the breeders they get their animals from, can shape up or shut down, for all I care.

As for not being able to make a lawsuit stick, take a look at the PetLand case....That evil girl only got probation!? That's an outrage. Yes, that's a case against an individual. If it's that difficult to get a real penalty against one person committing cruelty, it's going to be a whole lot more difficult to get a conviction or action taken against a corporation, who has a ton of money to hire lawyers and buy off settlements.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

I'm sorry to disagree, but theundercover video isridiculous (didn't watch the other one). Just from the short couple of seconds about the "force-breeding" of rabbits was enough for me to know that this wasa PETA-staged video and definitely not true or realistic in any way. Any reputable breeder could tell me why.

I think the sad thing is that these videos play into your emotions, which is why they can trick so many people into taking it as it is, and not thinking rationally. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the fair treatment and housingof all animals. But that doesn't make this video any more believable.

 

[Happi Bun]

The point is this isn't a reputable breeder, it's a mill that mass produces small animals for large chain pet stores like Petsmart. I disagree with idea it was staged. Animal mills are awful places, ever seen a Puppy Mill? They exist for small animals as well, like the one you just saw. Petsmart themselves have even supposedly called for a "full investigation" into Rainbow Exotics, their supplier for small animals.

 

[luvall]

Myia09 wrote:

FYI behind these videos..
Look. A lot of those animals were dead..guess what, it does happen, mill or not. I am sure breeders on this site will tell you they have had rabbits die. A litter died at birth. A rabbit fell ill and died.
I only buy my rabbits from breeders, however I have yet to find a hamster or parakeet breeder. For most people, the only place to get a animal is at a pet store.
I worked at Petsmart during the infamous '07-'08 where all the birds were sick and couldn't be sold in the entire east coast. More than 70 birds died just at my store..was I mad? Yes. But the supplier right away quarentine the birds and stopoed the breeding (It was highly contagious so it spread easily)
As for the fawn hamster, he had cancer and that was a tumor on his leg. Guess what, it happens, mill or not. The other syrian had wet tail, a very common illness amoung hamsters (think of it as the cold for humans)
I am all for regulating mills AND petstores, but these videos don't mean they are evil. When I worked, we had some deaths but we all tried really hard to take the best care possible of the animals, and my experiance that is the case with most pet stores.
Abuse happens, but don't let PETA take 10 stores and make a judgement on the entire company. They have failed to have a consistant case on Petsmart or Petco, hence why no lawsuits or enforcement has been taken upon them.
These videos are tragic and unfortunate, but yes, a very small amount of what acutally happens.
All I can say is file a petition in your state to regulate stores more..Arizona has already taken some initiative twoards care.
And if there is a petstore to ban, it is Petco. Petco out of the three largest chains (Petsmart and Pet Land) has the highest amounts of DOA (Dead on arival) and animal death. They also have the highest amount of citations. Petsmart is actually last on the list.
My store, btw, has ranked exceptional on care. In the 3 years I worked there, besides the bird flu, a very limited number of animals fell ill or died, and all were providded vet care, which is btw, a corporate regulation to take a ill animal to the vet.
I also work with the Arizona Humane Society as a foster home for "Exotic" (Anything that is not cat, dog, or equine) and have seen some horrible things from local breeders who pretended to be homey loving caregivers.
I am not attacking anyone or anyones beliefs, I just want everyone to know this is not the case with most. Also, petsmart no longer sells rabbits and petco is on the way to stop selling rabbits. As far as I am aware, no petco/petsmart sells rabbits in Arizona anymore.
Mills can be evil, but so can local breeders, owners, and anythign else you can think of. We just have to educate people and make laws are enforcement to stop abuse.

go to petfinder.com and you can find lots of great RESCUED hamsters and parakeets, and pretty much anything!

 

[SablePoint]

This is horrible! Just the conditions of the animals spells out ANIMAL CRUELITY.

First off, the "breeding" is horrible. Everything is so errorous. No proven females and rabbits are scattered about. And every breeder knows that it's the buck that enters the doe's cage - this video shows the oposite.
Force breeding is like being raped - would you like to be held down and have someone penetrate you against your own will?
Force breeding can cause emotion issues with the female. Often leading to miscarriage if impregnated. Rabbits are very sensitive and emotional animals. They can become sick or even die from such stress.
These people don't deserve to be called breeders.

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

Coniglio wrote:

This is horrible! Just the conditions of the animals spells out ANIMAL CRUELITY.

First off, the "breeding" is horrible. Everything is so errorous. No proven females and rabbits are scattered about. And every breeder knows that it's the buck that enters the doe's cage - this video shows the oposite. Actually no - that's not true. The doe is supposed to go into the bucks' cage because if the buck enters the doe's cage, she will most likely get really ticked off that a boy has entered her territory.
Force breeding is like being raped - would you like to be held down and have someone penetrate you against your own will? Forced breeding is used among a lot of breeders. Does aren't just going to sit there while they do the deed - they will run around and try to get away from the buck. I will just hold my does still for my bucks; I do not handle my rabbits roughly as was shown during the force breeding shown in that video.
Force breeding can cause emotion issues with the female. Often leading to miscarriage if impregnated. Rabbits are very sensitive and emotional animals. Just curious how you know this...?? I've never heard such a thing. All my does have taken. They can become sick or even die from such stress.
These people don't deserve to be called breeders. These people shown in the video shouldn't, no...but there are breeders who use forced breeding...and I think maybe you should do some research on breeding rabbits before you give out faulty information.

My answers are in bold.

Anyway, in no way am I sticking up for what goes on in those videos. What they do to those animals IS horrible and cruel and made me sick just watching it.

Emily

 

[SablePoint]

How is my info faulty? Rabbits are sensitive animals, and stress can kill them. A local breeder told me about the force breeding and that's why he offers proven does for breeding. "Stressed females can have a terminated pregnacy if stressed." You really can't argue with him. He is a great breeder. He takes very good care of his rabbits.
It is true that when it comes to breeding rabbits, the buck should enter the doe's cage for a successful breeding.

I don't make stuff up, nor do I lie.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Coniglio wrote:

How is my info faulty? Rabbits are sensitive animals, and stress can kill them. A local breeder told me about the force breeding and that's why he offers proven does for breeding.

I don't think you understand what forced breeding is. Most of the time, when you put a buck and doe together, the doe will not willingly melt to the cage floor and wait for the buck to breed her. They run around each other, play with each other, etc., making the whole thing a game. They're definitely not right down to business in most cases. However, once the breeding takes place, does will often get frustrated and aggressive with the buck as he continues to mount her. There have even been cases where a doe has been left with a buck to ensure breeding and she has bitten private parts off our of frustration. So obviously, you don't want to leave rabbits together in a cage without supervision. But at the same time, most of us don't have time to sit and wait for a breeding to take place. So what we do is cover the rabbit's eyes to keep her from running, and let the buck mount. If she is willing and ready to breed, she will lift her hindend (as you see the doe do in the video), and the breeding will be successful. If she's not willing, she won't lift, and the whole thing simply won't happen.

For the safety of the rabbits, force breeding is the RESPONSIBLE thing to do. And it is not stressful at all. If the rabbit wants to breed, it will. If it doesn't it's out of our power to make it happen. Force breeding doesn't sound as bad as it is. You and others are just simply misinformed, and this video plays off of that. Even proven does usually need to be helped.

"Stressed females can have a terminated pregnacy if stressed."

This is true. But force breeding is not the stressor that we're talking about. Usually a changed environment, or a change in feed, etc. may be the cause of a failed pregnancy. It is often an environmental stressor and not a conscious stressor on the rabbit's part.

It is true that when it comes to breeding rabbits, the buck should enter the doe's cage for a successful breeding.

:shock:As BlueSkyAcres said, this is definitelynot true and isvery dangerous! Does are naturally more territorial than bucks because of their maternal instinct. Bringing a buck to a does cage can be dangerous or even fatal for the buck, depending on how territorial the doe is. The breeding should always take place in neutral territory (table breeding) or in the BUCK's cage.

Please don't share misinformation, especially since that last part could actually be harmful to the rabbits!

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

OakRidge said it all. Nice job.

I'd like to add that when a breeder talks about a doe being 'proven' that just means that she has had success with becoming pregnant and raising a litter, etc. It doesn't mean they can be bred without it being a forced breeding.

Emily

 

[TinysMom]

Coniglio wrote:

How is my info faulty? Rabbits are sensitive animals, and stress can kill them. A local breeder told me about the force breeding and that's why he offers proven does for breeding. "Stressed females can have a terminated pregnacy if stressed." You really can't argue with him. He is a great breeder. He takes very good care of his rabbits.
It is true that when it comes to breeding rabbits, the buck should enter the doe's cage for a successful breeding.

I don't make stuff up, nor do I lie.

Every website I've ever read on breeding - and everything I've ever read in print on breeding - contradicts what you've said.

A buck should NEVER enter the doe's cage for a successful breeding. NEVER. She sees it as her territory and will fight him to defend it - even injuring him so he is unable to breed.

A doe is always brought to a buck's cage or a neutral area. It is safest that way.

 

[Zyzra]

I agree with Luvall. (another inside opinion from a petsmart employee) I agree that mills are horrible places, and petsmart should not be getting the animals from them. But people should be upset with the mill, not petsmart. I have worked there for years now. I am now a dog groomer, but worked in the pet care department for a period of time. And everyone that i have worked with is very knowledgeable about the animals and makes sure that the customers leave with good information and also cares a lot about the animals. We have lots of rules in place to make sure that the animals are in the healthiest conditions possible. We dont often get sick animals, and when we do they go right to the vet and are given the proper medicine and monitored multiple times a day. No birds at all died during that bird outbreak thing. And like Luvall said, stuff like that just happens. So overall i dont like it where petsmart gets their animals..but once they are in our hands we treat them well. We also do lots of good things. LIke we dont sell dogs or cats because of the overpopulation. And every weekend we have shelters come in with animals up for adoption.

 

[Zyzra]

no birds in our store that is