Stubborn case..

[Breeing]

Hey there everyone.

So this is a long story but i'll cut it short and get to the basics. haha

After doing nearly a year of researching and preparing i finally brought home my sweet holland lop named "Pippen" He is the light of my life.

The day i brought him home i saw his nose was a tiny runny but figured it was just the stress and excitement. As i am paranoid however i bought him to the vet that same week anyways.

Everything looked fine at that point but we put him on Baytril orally for a week anyways, however it became worse even after the treatment was over and his eyes started getting wet and nose running more....

I took him back and we started him on another anti biotics (Will find the name of that kind and post asap) for 2 weeks.

Still he gets worse and now he is sneezing...

So i head to the vets again and she decides to put him on 1x week injection (will also find that drugs name)...

It seemed to clear up the sneezing and runny eyes, and the nose wasn't quite as bad so after the 3 week course we stopped as we assumed he was finally better!

But no, yet again he started sneezing slightly, eyes watering like crazy and nose just going nuts...

So she gave him another injection...
Doesn't help.

She is running out of ideas and i am so worried..

We've checked his dental, heart, lungs, etc and everything is working fine, he eats and runs, plays and begs, drinks and binks non stop but... He's obviously still suffering from pasterella.

PLEASE Help us out, Pippen is just so important to me and i will not lose him.

 

[Breeing]

I should add that i brought him home on August 25th, 2012 at 10 weeks old. Which would make him roughly 6 months old now.

He is definitely a male and is just under 4lbs. Has free run over my room and is litter box trained.

Lots of toys, tunnels, hiding places and beds.
I give him 50/50 mix of oxbow adult timothy pellets and bulk alfalfa pellets (Can get ingredients if needed) also gets unlimited Timothy hay, and 2 cups fresh veggies daily or bi-daily.

Water is in a bowl and freshened daily, 3x week i add ecotrition vita-sol.

Was wondering if i should start feeding: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=24384 to him as well, would it help...?

 

[ladysown]

Pasturella is generally NOT curable. There was a lady who cured it from her herd but the process was lengthy and expensive and I can't find her information. It took about 6-7 months.

I'd fuss with him less and see if you can just get his body to settle down.

Seriously.

Don't upset his routine.
Just let him get used to life around her place without visits anywhere.
Let him just settle.

Pasturella is an immunologically related disease. meaning that if a rabbits immune system is under stress it pops up! The fact that he is continuing to deteriorate means that he doesn't have a strong immune system in the first place, and something is triggering his symptoms.

If you can let him settle.
AND as he is settling if you can figure out what might be setting his off you'll be ahead of the game.

Do you wear a perfume he can't handle?
Is there alot of the unexpected in his life?
Are you cleaning him out daily?
What type of bedding are you using?
Is your hay dusty?
Do you have excellent airflow in his living space?

Consider all these things, and see if there are ways to can help this health compromised bunny get back up on his feet?

but mainly I'd stop stuffing him with meds and just let him settle.
Handle his runny eyes in ways that don't mess with him medically. For instance. you can bring some relief to his eyes by making yourself a cup of tea and using a warm NOT HOT tea bag on his eyes to sooth them. Astringents help to heal, the bag is soft and warm which brings relief.

 

[missyscove]

The vast majority of rabbits are at least latent carriers of Pasteurella multocida which means that just because Pasteurella is found, does not mean that it is causing the symptoms.
I'd definitely like to know the names of the other drugs you've tried.

Additionally, have you and your vet considered the possibility of an allergy?

 

[wendymac]

When you say his nose was "runny", what color was the discharge? Was it clear? Or white/green? I'd be wondering if it wasn't a case of allergies, which would explain why none of the antibiotics have worked.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

I had a rabbit once who was allergic to something in her hay. It might be worth eliminating hay (from the diet and the area entirely) for a week or two and see whether the symptoms subside. Obviously not having hay in the diet isn't ideal, but if he is allergic, there are other ways to make sure he has fiber in his diet (the veggies being one.)

If it isn't that, it could be pasteurella even if meds haven't been able to clear it. In symptomatic carriers, treatment sometimes helps "put away" symptoms for awhile. Then after they're off the meds, you'll start seeing symptoms again. Other times, the symptoms never subside but can sometimes be controlled.

 

[Breeing]

Do you wear a perfume he can't handle?
-This is a possibility as i do use hair products etc, and he lives in my room which is where i use them, i will stop using them totally for the next few weeks.
Is there alot of the unexpected in his life?
Nope, hes very relaxed and just chills, if anything his life is kinda boring as he is only aloud in the one room, with only a few times a week visits downstairs.
Are you cleaning him out daily?
He doesn't have a cage, but i clean his litter box and the area around every other day.
What type of bedding are you using?
No bedding, when i first got him and i housed him in a 4x4x4 foot cube cage i used fleece baby blankets.
My floors are very old and hard wood though, a lot of the varnish has warn off...Could this be something?
Is your hay dusty?
Nope, its high quality, and NO dust and i always pick through it giving him the larger strands.
Do you have excellent airflow in his living space?
Not really.. In the summer, spring and fall i open in the windows, but this time of the year its -35 out and again- old house. haha



His nose and eye discharge is all clear runny, no clumps or discoloration.
It is a little sticky when i wipe it off though...?

 

[Breeing]

We are fairly certain it is or at least was at the beginning pasteralla as one of the rabbit he was housed with actually ended up dieing from it, this other rabbit was from a different litter but was in contact with Pippen for about 2 days- maybe a little longer.

The other rabbits housed with the sick one and Pippen were put through a light dose of baytril and are still totally fine and have no signs popping up.

So the swab test wouldn't work as he has been exposed...So it would come up positive even if its not whats causing the symptoms atm.

 

[Imbrium]

off the top of my head, I can't remember where any of the posts are, but you might dig around on the forums for other threads about pasturella - at least a couple people have tried a LOT of courses of antibiotics and such and were at their wit's end with not being able to get the symptoms under control, then recently nekro'd their old thread about their chronically sick bunny with a post saying that they'd found a vet who used holistic treatments and had success with it. it's certainly worth looking into if the traditional antibiotics aren't working.

 

[Breeing]

So i have noticed that for the most part Pippen has gotten a little bit better, i haven't taken him out of the room he is most comfortable in, so everything is totally stress free.

His one eye seems fine minus the normal wetness, while the other one still weeps a little, and the whites is very red as well as the skin around his eye.

He flairs up and everything starts running and he gets a bit sneezy whenever he gets even remotely stressed out or something around him changes.

Is there anything i can do to change this, i have started placing warm orange pekoe tea bags on his effected eye, So i will see how that helps. But what about everything else, obviously medication is useless, how about herbs and whatnot, he gets a very large variety, and i heard dandelions help with the immune system, but i can't get those for at least another 5 months. haha

I have also taken away his hay for this week just to see if anything will change.

Last question (for now) is: do you guys know of a hypoallergenic cleaner, laundry detergent and what not that rabbits have no problem with? I want to change all my cleaning supplies to make it all totally safe for my little Pippen!

 

[whitelop]

Vinegar is a great cleaner and fabric softener. The smell dissipates after its dry. And it kills like 95% of germs. I use it to clean most things in my house, including bunny cage, litter boxes and i add it to bunny blankets.

 

[JBun]

I second the vinegar. It's a good cleaner and safe to use around your rabbit. There are several laundry detergents out there as well, that are dye and fragrance free. I use All. I've also heard about some rabbits having allergies to certain litters in their litter box. You could try using a different rabbit safe litter and see if that helps. I'm not sure what you are currently using, but there are a few different ones that you could try.

 

[Breeing]

Thanks guys, i suppose i could try vinegar...The smell makes me gag but if it help Pip i could see if it helps. haha

And he is free run in my room so theres only the wood floors, and in his litter box i use yesturdays news and thats under a grid, so theres no dust or anything reaching him.

 

[sarah222296]

If youre worried about his eyes your vet can give you terramycin or neopoly/bac ointment aslong as theres no hydrochloride in it. As for the runny nose with pasteurella theres not much you can do since its an upper resp infection, there hard/ almost impossible to get rid of even in cats and dogs. Most cats/dogs the severity can be decreased dramatically with meds, but they'll still have flare ups throughout their lives (ex.sneezing, runny nose, watery eyes), and I'd think it would be the same for rabbits. Stress free is the key. And if your going to wipe his nose be gentle, I'm sure rabbits noses can become inflamed from constantly running so you might need something to rub on his nose. check out this site http://www.celebratingrabbits.com/stories/pasteurella.html

 

[tonyshuman]

Runny eyes can also be caused by blocked tear ducts. Sometimes a bunny's tooth roots get overgrown and put pressure on the eye or the tear duct. The tear ducts can also get blocked and inflamed by infection or just foreign objects. You might want to look into other causes, especially since it sounds like one eye is worse than the other. You said a few posts back: "His one eye seems fine minus the normal wetness, while the other one still weeps a little, and the whites is very red as well as the skin around his eye. " That sounds like conjunctivitis, ie an eye infection, or excessive watering due to tear duct problems or pressure on the eye. I would look into conjunctivitis treatments first, which are usually eye ointments or drops, and if that doesn't work, consider having the tear duct flushed (a vet can do this) and/or a dental x-ray done to make sure his tooth roots aren't growing into the space where his eye is.

This is a little gross so don't click if you're squeamish: http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Eye_diseases/Differential/Runny_eyes.htm

My Tony also gets these sometimes--they're like zits right on the edge of the eyelid, and they cause irritation: (again, pics are a bit gross) They're treated in his case with antibiotic drops.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Eye_diseases/Disorder/Meib/Meib_en.htm

We have a netherland dwarf whose smooshed adorable nethie face leads to her eyes not draining properly, and she gets goop on her eyes (usually blobs of fur or mucus) and excessive watering. We have to clean out the corners of her eyes daily and put antiobiotic ointment on them if they get red and irritated.