Strange Bonding question

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jcottonl02

jcottonl02

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Okay so I'm trying to bond Benji and Pippin again. I gave up last time even with promising signs- it just made me too nervous that they were going to hurt each other, but now I've decided I am going to definately try my hardest to get it to work.


The bonding is going well so far- lots of grooming from both parties. Sort of 'I groom you, then you groom me'. I can't say there is a "dominant one", and here's why:

Benji usually starts the fighting- however Pippin always humps Benji, which annoys him.

They ONLY ever fight when Pippin humps Benji. That's it. But he won't stop! They will both sit and groom for literally 10 minutes, eyes closed, even little bunny purrs!!!! Which is so promising.
But how on earth do I stop Pippin humping Benji? I've tried tapping him on the nose, I've tried verbally, I've tried moving him away when I see the little thought process go through his mind of 'Oh I'll groom Benji and then hump him!!!!'.

Help- becuase this is the only thing that is stopping the bonding. They run round, play with balls together, groom incessantly! But then Pippin humps, Benji bites, and I have to somehow separate them.

When they do fight, I try to get one in each hand, and I (gently!) hold the back of their heads and push them firmly to the floor, while saying very loudly 'NO!' over and over. They struggle but eventually calm down. Then (If I'm not too shaken up lol) they go back to being completely normal with each other.


So basically what I'm asking is:

How do I stop Pippin from humping? BTw they are both neutered.

Is the way I am stopping the fighting correct?

Thanks. I really think this could work, and I think they would be so happy together. They show so many signs- when they are in their run (with the partition) they groom each other nonstop through the bars and squidge together etc. I know it can work, I just need some help lol :)

Jen

Eta- squirting with water does not work at all. They really couldn't care less lol
 
When you say Benji bites, is it a nip or a full on bite? If it's a nip, then I would let them carry on, but obviously you don't want proper bites that break the skin to happen.

It might just be a case of little and often, but equally, some buns, with all the will in the world, can be ok most of the time, and then have a trigger for fighting and rip each other apart.

I would also suggest that you are calm, because it might be that they sense you tensing with Pip mounts, and so they react accordingly. No matter what happens, you need to be calm, even if its an out and out fight.
 
Thanks for your reply :)

Well the first time I ever put them together I interfered by shoving my whole arm over Benji who bit me, and it was quite a bite. However, I am not sure whether that was self-defence becuase I was sort of...in his space, rather than aiming it at Pippin.

Today Benji managed to miss again, and got me instead- but it didn't break the skin or leave any mark at all, but hurt lol. I know he was aiming for Pippin his time, but it was sort of a warning nip.

When they fight- they have never bitten one another, but lots of fur flies. They don't seem very convicted when they fight- more like a sort of 'i'll show you!' kind of thing.
I know what bites they are capable of, and it doesn't really look like they are trying to bite each other, more like smacking each other while rolling around. And like I said, Benji tried 2 'nip' Pippin.

I think if ever I see any sort of conviction, or any bites that break the skin, then I think I will call it a day with the bonding.

But I think Benji is just nipping. They seem to like eachother so much- they just can't stop grooming eachother and 'flopping' down next to one another.

Seriously lol it's just groom flop groom flop......HUMP NIP. Groom flop groom flop HUMP SCRATCH.

Eta- I try to be calm as much as I can- I know it's needed in this. But sometimes I don't even think Pippin his going to hump, I'm just all happy that they are groom adn then suddenly humping occurs lol.
 
I don't know whether this is significant, but also Pippin seems to only hump when he's finished grooming Benji, and he always humps his face.
 
I would guess that he is saying 'now, just because I've groomed you, don't forget I'm boss', and then Benjir probably disagrees with that.

I would think that if the fur is flying, but no one is actually getting hurt, then allow it to continue (but have a broom handy 'just in case' so that you can intervene and not be injured) because it will help them sort out who is going to be dominant.

One of my trios still does a lot of chasing and nipping and fur often flies, but they have been fully bonded for over a year now. The fur flying, whilst not fun to watch, is a normal part of bonding and a normal part of how they establish who is going to be top dog.

You want to watch for circling, just of back legs, face offs and things like that. Also watch if Pip is humping Benji's face, that Benji doesn't decide to take a chunk out of him because obviously that would be pretty nasty (I think aurora369 had a bun who had that happen and whilst he was ok, he went through a very stressful recovery, obviously).
 
Wow that broom idea is fantastic- and so is the bonder idea!

There is never any circling at all, and never any signs of aggression really.
It's sort of just, well exactly like you say really- Pippin deciding to show Benji he's still boss and then hump lol.

So fur flying is okay? It's not like they are trying to kill eachother? Just their way of establishing dominance?
 
Yeah that's what worries me- Pippin humping his face. Benji had that with his old owners (can I call them owners if they abandon an animal? I don't think so) but he recovered from it, but it was nasty!
 
Lol my heart just started thumping at that last sentence........calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean.......

My Dad is so good with the rabbits- he loves them to pieces and he's the only one in my family other than me who actually understands them, and treats them like intelligent animals who can love and care for you just as a dog would.

He's fantastic with bonding them. He hurts himself all the time at work etc. cos in his profession you can't avoid it, and really doesn't care about being bitten etc. so he just goes right in there with no fear at all and just does it!

He is helping me with bonding them, so hopefully that will really make a difference, because last time I tried to do it myself.

Thanks a lot for that bonder info- I will def look into it if this doesn't work.

And thanks for your advice- I will def continue knowing they aren't trying to maul one another.


Will Pippin stop humping eventually? The more they get used to eachother?
 
jcottonl02 wrote:
I've tried moving him away when I see the little thought process go through his mind of 'Oh I'll groom Benji and then hump him!!!!'.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I had to smile at this :)

Flashy has given great advice, and it does sound as though it is going OK. When Pernod and Shadow (eventually) bonded, there was still occasional humping, but not as much. Just a kind of reminder that she was boss ;).

Glad that your Dad thinks the same as you and is helping out!

Jan
 
Hmm.....I have just felt a scab on Pippin's side..at the top of his leg. It's not particularly big, and there was no sign of it at all after their bonding session, as I had checked them over...but I'm a big worried now.

I'm not sure if he could have got it from anywhere else.
It doesn't seem that deep, sort of more a graze than anything, but still....is this a sign to stop right now??

After there bonding session I specifically checked them over for blood or anything but there was nothing at all! So it couldn't have bled much, therefore not deep.

What should I do? I don't want to put either of them in danger.
Should I stop now? Even though there are so many good signs, with constant grooming, snuggling and cuddling, can that keep me bonding them even though i THINK Benji might have nipped Pippin a bit too hard?

Oh I'm so depressed.
 
To be honest, you sound like you're looking for a reason to stop. Remember that you don't have to bond them. They can be perfectly happy by themselves, and sharing time with each other through the run bars.

You don't actually know where the scab came from. Yes, it could be from Benji, but Pip could have caught himself somewhere, or he may have some problem and chewed himself.

Rabbit wounds don't bleed much, so often a check won't atcually reveal anything unless it's major, but when the scab arrives it is then that you will be able to identify it. So therefore it could have happened at any time during the previous days.

Ultimately, it's completely your choice whether or not you choose to bond them. Go with your gut instinct on what you want to do.
 
What you say is right.
I'm a coward and I worry about everything.
Yes- I want to stop because of that. I don't want to try bond them becuase if something major happened I don't think I'd ever be able to sleep another night through guilt.

But underneath I really don't want to stop. My heart really really wants to bond them. I can see how happy they are- and when I move out, if they are bonded they can have a whole room of their own- not having to somehow divide it. When I'm at lectures etc. they can have eachother, without me worrying they will be lonely. They can play together- they are both so playful and tbh when I try to play with them I think I'm just scaring them.
And if for some reason they managed to get at each other while I wasn't there, and hurt one another badly, that would just be...well the end of the world. But if they were bonded, that chance is so so slim that they would hurt each other. One less thing to worry about.

So yes on the outside I worry so much about it, but I really really really do want this to work. I want them to have the run of my house! Free as a bird! But I can't do that properly if I have to keep them separate.


 
Also, if they are scared at night they can huddle together, rather than being alone. Like if they hear something or see something, they won't have to be alone.
 
Personally, I wouldn't stop bonding them. The little scab could be from several things, and the fact that it is a scab and not a wound, shows it hasn't happened too recently. If they seem hppy together, then I would continue.

Of course, if you feel that you would be worrying about them, then by all means stop. But, it would mean you'd probably have to start from scratch if you ever wanted to try again.

Good luck with whatever you decide - I know it's not an easy decision.

Jan
 
LuvaBun wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't stop bonding them. The little scab could be from several things, and the fact that it is a scab and not a wound, shows it hasn't happened too recently. If they seem hppy together, then I would continue.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot Jan :)

I was actually really worried that people would judge me if I posted that Pippin had a scab, like I hadn't taken care of him properly or watched closely enough in the bonding.

Yeah I don't want to start from scratch again. But I also want them to be completely safe.

I think I will continue to bond them. I will try my absolute hardest to stop a fight before it even begins, and if I feel that they are hurting each other while fighting, then I might consider stopping.

Thanks for your advice. I'm really glad you said that, because I really take this forum's opinion because you all know so much. And if you had have said 'No way- stop bonding right now. This is too dangerous blah blah' then I probably would do. So I am very glad you think it still seems okay to carry on, becuase I really really do want to bond them. And they do seem so happy together (obviously when they are not trying to hump the hell out of each other or fighting lol)
 
When 2 of my single males rabbits had a fight a couple years ago I went over both of them extremely carefully after the fight looking for injuries

then someone on this site told me that you usually cannot find a small bite until a scab forms because it is small and doesn't bleed.
The member was correct becauseI found several scabs a few days later.
Nothing bad came of it and I tried to clean the areas although they were scabbed over

I don't think that you should stop bonding but do be aware that infections and abscesses can form from small bites so try to keep on top of finding them (if that is what this was)
and nowI probably spoiled your night by saying this

sorry. :(.....
 
No not at all! I would rather be informed- so thank you :). Infections and abscesses aren't fatal if you find them soon right? You'll know if they are there because they will pus, and then antbiotics can be used and it will clear up?

My cat had an abcsess from a bite from her sister (naughty sister), which just pussed and pussed. We took her to the vets, the vets squeezed it out, and we gave her antibiotics and it cleared up very soon

Is this the case with rabbits?
 
It would probably be worth bathing the wounds to help protect against infection.

An infection would present the same in a rabbit as in any other animal, including people. If it was infected it would be sore, pussy, red, discharge, wa to the touch, etc. An abscess may not necessarily be pussing, it may just be a lump under the skin where the wound is.

Good luck with the continued bonding :) If you struggle doing it yourself, don't forget the other options, like a bonder.
 
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