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MarisaAndToby

MarisaAndToby

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Sep 8, 2011
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Location
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I started Toby on his antibiotics after becoming increasingly paranoid with sneezing and Toby cocking his head (either inquisitively or head tiltingly).

Regardless, I started. I started last night, so he's had three doses now. It says Chlor Palm Suspension, and I'm to give 1.7ml twice a day until it's gone.

He's been relatively good about taking it... but he hasn't been pooping as much (he still is but they're getting smaller) and he's eating less already. He usually devours his pellets and he hasn't even finished them now.

Apart from a few nibbles of hay I don't think he's had much of that either.

His water bowl is half full and has been since yesterday, I'm about to change the water out.

Now I feel like since this is only the third dose, it's going to get worse before it gets better. What can I buy/do to be prepared for trouble? Should he be confined to his cage more often to promote eating (ie less distractions?)

Sorry, I didn't really want to make a new post about this, but worried Marisa doesn't bode well for anyone. Any and all help is appreciated!
 
No, I asked about it and she said because it would be checking for pasteurella it had to be anaerobic. She quoted me four hundred dollars just for the lab work.
 
The big thing I'm thinking here is that a random drug was perscribed and we have no idea if its even the right drug to treat the bacteria (if there is any). Bacterial Immunity is such a huge thing in todays day and age, we just dont want animals to become immune to certain drugs and when they need that drug, it wont work because they've already had it.

Some animals cant handle certain drugs. but this sounds like more of a case of it just making him feel a bit queezy inside. Which can happen. You can either stop the medication, or continue and just motinor him and ensure he keeps eating. Lots of Cilantro and keep some gas meds on hand, if you dont feel hes eating enough try offering him some treats. Do you have hairball remedy? We want to keep everything flowing through him nicely while hes not eating as much. Dont start force feeding unless he totally stop eating. Do you have Critical care on hand? Im a fan of wetting down veggies and sprinkling some critical care on top, extra calories, extra nutrition.

Have you been switching out certain things in and around him to rule out allergies? From all your other posts he still seems super healthy and active which is pulling me more and more towards this being just a simple allergy or sensitivity to something like his hay or litter.
 
If your rabbit is taking an antibiotic, he should also be getting a probiotic. Antibiotics kill all bacterial--including the beneficial bacteria in a rabbit's gut. He's probably got some GI upset. Get some Benebac, Probios, or other probiotic paste. Some acidophillus for humans (I've used the cherry-flavoured chewable children's) or even some yoghurt (though yoghurt isn't really recommended as rabbits don't digest dairy very well) will work.

JMVHO

Hope that helps!

Rue
 
I did try switching out some of the items, the litter and hay namely. I also tried a shallow bowl for his pellets as opposed to a deep cup that he has to stick his whole head into. The sneezing persisted. Maybe he's just a sneezy bunny? He sneezes at my parents home as well so I don't think it's anything in the house environment. Trust me I understand the concerns about antibiotic immunity, I just didn't know what to do. Especially when he started cocking his head. I got extremely worried... I just don't want to wait until it's too late to treat.

Now with that being said, he has had 4 doses. He's still eating-ish. Very little hay and not his usual water, but both are going down. He's currently nibbling on pellets. He's also been reaaally going after his willow ball which he never used to give the time of day, although it is a relatively new addition to him. To me, the most interesting thing is that although the sneezes may be less often, they're still occurring. I know when I take an antibiotic I start to feel better and stop showing symptoms within 1-2 doses. They seem to be pretty fast working drugs.

Since he is still eating and pooping, I think I'll do at least one more dose and see if there's any improvement. That would make it 2 days since the start. If he's still sneezy then I'll stop, since it's either not working or he's just sneezy.

Where can I get the probiotics like Benebac etc? I'd rather get something like that but I can obviously find the kids stuff if need be.
 
Try and get the Benebac if you can.
There have been alot of recent studys showing that giving yogurt and human acidopholus to an animal other then a human or money is 100% pointless. You want pre-pro biotics that are specific to the species being used. When it comes to items like people acidopholus, dogs/cats/bunnys dont produce the same type of beneficial bacteria in their guts as people do. It goes deeper then that but the short version is that it just doesn't actually affect those animals, and your pet is really recovering on their own when its being used. :)

As per keeping toby on the meds, it may take longer then just a few days to take affect, if youre going to give it to him, you might as well give him the full ammount. So long as he continues to eat at least something. Were his teeth checked? What about deworming?
 
She did check his teeth, she said one side of molars was slightly overgrown but nothing to cause problems. She didn't talk about deworming and I didn't ask either; it was my first vet visit ever and I was super flustered! Wouldn't worms make him thin? If anything he's been bulking up lately, maybe for winter? I have no idea, his diet is the same and I measure the amount of pellets he gets daily, the rest is all hay and occasionally fresh veggies.

Is Benebac a prescription? Is Probios any better? I'm calling around right now and haven't found any benebac.
 
If you cant find benebac, find something similar designed for horses/sheep, etc other grazing herbivore animals. any Equine vets in your area?

Vets will have something like Acute-care or ... the one in the orange box. These can be used in a pinch, but once again the bacterial makeup of a dogs gut, vs a humans gut, vs a rabbit or other grazing animals gut are much different.
 
I don't think one brand is better than the other. These are just some of the brands I've seen mentioned here on RO. I've never foundthem here in Canada, but I know others have. It's not prescription, but I know some vets carry it and others can order it.

I ended up buying the children's chewable acidophilus.

Hopefully one of the other Canadian members can offer some more help.

Rue
 
I called around and haven't been able to find anyyyything.

Just to clarify, as long as he's eating at least SOMETHING it's alright, right? And as long as he's pooping SOMETHING, it's alright.... right? As long as there's movement through the digestive system?
 
Chloramphenical ( chlorpalm )is a great drug for severe infections because of its ability topenetrate deep infections and because it can cross the blood -brain barrier ; one of the side effects, however, is "loss of appetite "
When an antibiotic is beginning to kill bacteria there is often an initial loss of appetiteas the body rids itself of the bacteria . This sometimes improves after several days
I would try to assist him with food (as you have been)and with the use of a probiotic but don't give the probiotic at the same time as the chlorpalm .

Remember to be careful and not get the chlorpalm on your skin. It can cause serious issues with white blood cell destruction in humans but only if you have physical contact with the drug. I have used it on my rabbits as an opthalmic salve and just used rubber gloves ( just in case)

Also remember to always make sure that Critical care is mixed with alot of water before it is administered. Critical care requires more water than stated on the packet. If the critical care is given dry it will actually pull fluids from the system and dehydrate the animal.

Do you have any farm stores near you ? You can use tiny amounts of probiotics that are made for horses ..usually comes in a tube

http://www.horse.com/item/probios-probiotic-supplement/SLT121155/

Both benebac and Probios contain lactobacillus casei and ideally you need a probiotic that contains it
 
You want to keep the GI tract moving

I would also get some children's electrolyte drink ( we call itPedialyte here) and give him some per syringe ...give what he will take without a fight
it is very important to keep him hydrated particuarly if his appetite is down
many folks favor the unflavored , however,I have always used the flavored and have never had a rabbit that had any GI issues from the use of it. One of my rabbits loves the taste of the cherry flavor .

 
Thanks so much!

At least now I know that the Chlor Palm should actually be effective. I had nooo idea about the contact with humans, so thank you for that too. I've definitely been wiping his dribble on his chin with my thumb... sooo woops.

I've never seen critical care at any of the stores here, where can I get it from? Do I have to order it online?

I'm from a rural area originally but am now in a large city. I'll see if there's a UFA or something like that in Edmonton, but I don't know.

So helpful, thank you so much! Now I know what ingredient to look for for the probiotic. He seems to be a bit more himself right now; he escaped my room and was cruising my roommates room earlier tonight.

His pee looks thicker though, I don't think he's drinking enough. Anything I can do to encourage that?
 
Yes, it's definitelybetter than him not eating or pooping, but the line between eating a little bit and pooping a little bit and not eating or pooping at all can be quite thin. :(

If worse comes to worse, you should be able to find chewable children's acidophilus at a vitamin or nutrition store. I think a bottle cost about $10.

This thread has reminded me, I need to get some more probiotics for Gus's emergency kit!

Hope that helps!

Rue
 
Oh, quick update.

I've had Toby using a water crock for about 2-3 weeks now. He was using it fine until I started medicating, then he seemed to stop. Well I decided to fill up his bottle just now, held it out to him and he just sat there for about a minute straight drinking out of it. That is now in his cage and I'll be holding it out to him periodically through the day if I don't see the water levels dropping.

Aside from finding a probiotic and some critical care, I think we're doing well! :thumbup
 
You can put some apple juice in his water bowl( top off the bowl like a person uses cream in coffee) and if he still won't drink you can give him water per syringe until you get some pedialyte .
It might even be a good idea to have the vet show you how to give subqutaneous fluids which is much easier to do than force them orally.

Here is the link to Oxbow . They would be able to tell you more about the availability of Critical care in Canada.I get all my hay from them and if you call the contact number you will find really nice helpful people.

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care
 
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