Rory has a distended and firm abdomen, seems to be in pain- please help!

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SnowyShiloh

SnowyShiloh

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I am VERY worried about Rory. Background: almost 3 year old neutered Mini Lop male. Eats timothy hay, Zupreem Nature's Promise Timothy Pellets, and fresh greens and other veggies (about 3 times a week). At the moment he has a urinary tract infection (and possibly something else, refer to his other thread). He's been on Baytril for 9 days now. As far as I know, he has NOT eaten anything strange and is not shedding.

Water consumption: much less than normal
Appetite: he still has an appetite
Poop: less than normal
Pee: I don't know right now

He normally weighs about 3.75 pounds. When I pick him up, he feels like he weighs at least half a pound more than normal. His abdomen is fairly firm and feels larger than normal. When he came out to get some exercise, he still ran around and binkied, but is also laying down with his stomach pressed to the floor which makes me think he's in pain. In addition to that, when I sat down next to him to pet him (when he was lying like that), after about 30 seconds of petting he jumped up and lunged at me to bite. He stopped himself. Regardless, that is VERY unusual behavior for him- the one time he bit me was when he was jealous of another bunny. I think he's in pain. His skin is not tenting, which is good. He has not been grinding his teeth, which is good because that's what he usually does when he's unhappy (or I'm assuming in pain). I put my ear to his stomach for about 30 seconds and didn't hear anything, but when I massaged his belly I could feel some gurgling. I stopped massaging his belly because I was afraid to hurt him. I've been giving him 1 ml of simethicone every hour too.

He has been eating his hay, pellets, and romaine, and I tried to syringe him some water but he didn't want it. I also gave him Benebac. We just went to the store and brought home some mint tea and Pedialyte for him.

My friend has a rat rescue and Metacam on hand, as well as everything to give subcutaneous fluids. We want to drive over to her house to get some Metacam for him. Will Metacam be safe for him right now? How much should he get? And if we have to give him fluids, what size needle and how many CCs should he get?

Can I give him veggies? I have romaine, cilantro, parsley and cucumber. When Skyler had something similar, the vet said not to give him veggies because she didn't want his gut trying to digest veggies, but he's not drinking water. When Rory was sick back in April-May (he was suffering from stasis or near stasis and it took about a month to resolve completely), I gave him salads twice a day and I'm convinced it's what kept him from dying from dehydration because he wasn't drinking water then either.

Of course, our vet clinic is closed tomorrow (Saturday). The old clinic I took the bunnies to is opened tomorrow, which we plan to take him to, but chances are good that there will not be a vet experienced with bunnies there.

There IS an emergency clinic, but they are not experienced with bunnies at all and I'm afraid to bring him there.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, I'm really worried.
 
It just occurred to me that the bunnies started eating from a new bale of hay this weekend. I don't know if that's significant at all. The other 3 bunnies are fine. The bag of food they were eating from is the same one they've had for the past week or so.
 
Peg was kind enough to call me and we talked about Rory for 15 minutes. We were also trying to figure out how much Metacam to give him. After talking to her and my friend, I decided on .15 ml. He weighs 4 1/2 pounds right now. The dose is on the low side, but I don't want to accidentally overdose him! Paul is on his way home with the Metacam right now.

Right now he is eating parsley that I soaked in water. He's not attacking it as voraciously as normal, but he is eating it. He's hopping around and then returning to the parsley to eat more.
 
I'm going to bed now. Rory is in his cage eating parsley, lettuce, hay and pellets. I put some vanilla in his water. He got the Metacam about 2 hours ago. I need to get some sleep because I didn't sleep last night, but I won't sleep for too long. I really hope he's improved when I wake up! Also Paul will be in the living room with him while I'm sleeping- he's not very in tune with the bunnies, but I'm hoping he'll be able to tell if Rory gets bad.
 
Dosing of the Metacam depends on the concentration of the drug....there are three concentrations available for veterinary practice. The dosing you gave is appropriate fo the 1.5 mg/ml version based on the weight of your rabbit. And your vet is totally wrong about giving greens. I usually give them all the romaine lettuce, parsley, cilantro or dandelions as they will eat as they are all mostly water and will help with hydration. Dandelions are also very nutritious. In the beginning of stasis, many times a hand full of greens along with some run time is all it takes.

Randy
 
He needs to get the urinary issue diagnosed, but he may just have a touch of gas, I wouldn't bother with anything but Simethicone right now.

Keep up the fibre, fluids, greens, etc. And does he like vanilla? All my bunnies hate it. If you're putting anything in water, always give them a crock or bottle of plain water as well.

And if there's a urinary issue of any kind, I'd try diluted cranberry juice before anything else.

I wouldn't give him Metacam unless he really needs it and/or you know his kidneys are in perfect working order and he's well-hydrated, it can do more harm than good.


sas :clover:
 
Randy and Pipp, good to know that you feel he should be getting veggies because I've been giving him all the romaine lettuce and parsley he can eat. He's eating more right now. There aren't any dandelion greens available right now as the ground has been frozen for 4 months now.

I just came down stairs a few minutes ago (it's 7 am), his tummy is still just as full as it was when I went to bed :( The good thing is that he pooped in his litter box a fair amount when I was sleeping and his skin still isn't tenting. He did not pee in his litter box though.

I don't know if he likes vanilla or not, but he has a bowl of plain water too.

The other vet clinic opens in an hour and a half, it's the vet clinic we used to take our bunnies to (they've been going to a different one the past couple months but it's closed on the weekends). There's only one vet there that I would really want to see him, with my luck she's probably not working today. She will undoubtedly want to give him a gut motility drug, which I don't want him to have.

His abdomen is so big that when he's lying down, I can see his sides sticking out some and I'm sure he's at least half a pound heavier than normal.

Do you guys think he will be okay? What will the vet be able to tell about him today? If the one decent rabbit vet is not there, should I still take him in or would it be better to keep him at home and keep doing what we're doing? Would the vet really be able to accomplish anything with him? He hates going to the vet so much and gets incredibly stressed out.
 
I opened the door of his cage and he hopped right out. He's pooped more and he just peed! The urine looks a lot like orange juice- translucent and yellow. His poop production seems normal to me.

Also the Metacam was the 1.5mg/ml kind like Randy said. I won't give him the second dose if it could hurt him... I feel bad now about giving it to him, but nothing I can do about it. I thought of Metacam because he seemed to clearly be uncomfortable and I know pain can make things even worse for them. When Tallulah died, she had these same symptoms only worse (pooping bloody mucus) and the vet gave her Metacam. I wouldn't have given it to him if I'd known it could hurt him.
 
I'm sorry about all the posts in a row! I'm just trying to keep things up to date. He's doing binkies right now... Would a really sick or in danger bunny do binkies? I forgot to say before that when I came downstairs an hour ago, he was lying down with his tummy on the floor.
 
I was going to respond that it sounds like he is retaining fluids . This can be a symptom that occurs when the kidneys are not functioning properly..however if he looks alright now may be gas that has passed.
When you do go to the vetsI suggest another lab panel to assess the kidney function and possibly an x-ray.

There is littlle point in going to a vet who cannot help at all soI would continue to watch him to see if he improves any in the next hour or so.

if he really deteriorates probably a semi rabbit knowledgeable vet can do some procedures and is better than none.

I am so sorry that you are on such a roller coaster with your rabbits...:(

 
Angieluv, I hadn't considered that he could be retaining fluids. Good thinking!! He's still as heavy and round as ever, but is running around binkying and doing bunny 500s alternated with lying down in positions that have his tummy on the floor.

He has an appointment for Friday with his regular vet, I'm going to request blood work and an x-ray then. My class schedule this semester is horrible in that I have class from 8 am until 6 pm Monday through Thursday. That means that I can only schedule vet appointments for Fridays :( Of course if it was an emergency I would work in a vet visit, but (his current stomach issue or whatever he's having aside) I think the blood test, urine cytology and x-ray can wait until then?
 
Whether you go sooner rather than later depends on how he continues to behave and look so I would just keep monitoring him and change your plans if you have too.

Iknow that is easier said than done...
 
I called the vet clinic and the bunny vet will not be in until Monday. No big surprise there- I have really awful luck when it comes to the vet working on days when my bunnies are sick. They said I could bring him in to see a different vet, but there's only 1 vet who really has any kind of bunny knowledge. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and then call our vet on Monday :( Hopefully he will start to go back to normal soon. We will take him in before Friday if it's necessary, it will be difficult because it will mean me missing class and Paul missing work, but we'll figure it out somehow. Poor Rory.
 
This is very odd. I just weighed him again, and he weighs 4 pounds 12 ounces now. 4 ounces more than 12 hours ago. I'm using my kitchen scale (rather than a bathroom scale) so it's fairly accurate. Could he weigh more now because he's eaten a lot of veggies? He's pooping a lot (a completely normal amount I'd say).
 
Okay, I'm sorry because this is gross, but it could be a sign of something. I picked him up to give him more simethicone, and after holding him for a couple minutes, I noticed a spot of bloody mucus on my shirt. I have a pretty bad cold right now and have been sneezing a lot. I don't know if a sneeze escaped a tissue (entirely possible, it's happened before) or if it came from Rory. I haven't had any blood in my snot, and I couldn't find any sign of blood or mucus on Rory's nose, mouth or eyes. I don't know which of us it came from!

I can't decide what to do about the vet. I really want to know what's wrong with him, and if we take him to the vet they could do an x-ray. Also if he IS retaining fluids, would giving him subcutaneous fluids hurt him? He HATES going to the vet- he turns into a complete mess, grinding teeth, nose running, very anxious and scared. He's happy being at home. Would it actually benefit him to take him to the vet where he would be scared and unhappy? Would having a non-rabbit experienced vet do the x-ray and everything actually change anything for him? I don't want to be selfish. I don't know what to do. The clinic is open for 4 hours and 45 minutes more today and they're open for a few hours tomorrow too.
 
Pebbles is fairly layed back and easy going. But when my regular Vet tried to X-ray Pebbles for some fluids in her lungs, Pebbles got so stressed out, that the Vet couldn't do it.
 
Stan, I'm still so conflicted. I called the clinic again. They're out of appointments and said there have been a lot of emergencies today. If we take him in, it will be a $75 emergency fee, and she said he would probably have to wait in the waiting room freaking out for quite a while because they have to take the scheduled appointments first and wait for the 1 vet who sees small animals to be available. We've seen that vet before, she's nice but doesn't really know much about bunnies even though she supposedly sees small animals. I don't know what to do still other than feel like crying, but that won't help anything.

Rory is sitting in his cage, eating hay, looking unconcerned even though I know he's uncomfortable.
 
Do you think the mucus could have come from his bum? That would be a very bad sign.

I think Talulah had bloat--a distended abdomen, GI mucus, etc. However, you say that Rory is gaining weight, so the increased abdominal mass probably isn't from bloat. If it were bloat, it would be gas increasing his abdominal size, and that wouldn't weigh much.

If it's fluid accumulating, I really think it's an emergency. A non-rabbit vet could help with that. Retaining fluid to that extent isn't safe, and it won't go away on its own. Addiitonal fluids probably won't help either.

Big healing vibes sent your way---
 
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