Re-bonding sisters after fights

[addy]

I have two rabbits: one year old (Panda) and 5 months old (Mochi). They came as a bonded pair just a month ago.

I saw the Mochi fight the Panda last Thurs after giving them veggies. She bit a lot of hair out of the other one but there were no injuries I observed. I separated them until Monday when I reintroduced them in a new environment. The fighting happened again. Out came Panda's hair again.

Would you advise me to separate them longer and try again or just return the vicious one back to the rescue to be adopted solo?

I think that both of them 24h after a fight become afraid of me. Not sure if it is gonna cause more harm than good if I attempt other techniques? Panda is living in my room now. She is the best roommate ever; she comes up to me and loves being petted. Mochi was never like that. I hope Panda continues to behave well!

Also I don't particularly like Mochi and she seems to be a burden for a few reasons. she poops out of her litter box and does not like to be petted. Another thing is she sometimes has a dirty green mouth. It cleans randomly by itself. So really no big deal for me saying goodbye.

...However I feel bad surrendering her if she could potentially keep Panda company especially when I'm going to be working away from home starting this fall.

 

[Blue eyes]

Mochi is 5 months old -- prime for being hormonal. Mochi isn't vicious - just hormonal. Is Panda spayed? Both rabbits should be spayed before bonding them. It is very common for a rabbit between 4-7 months of age (roughly) to be hormonal and to fight off other rabbits. Once she's spayed, she may become sweet as well.

Those hormones would also explain her sloppy litter habits as well as her being grumpy (not wanting to be pet). Can't speak about the green mouth without further info.

(If Mochi is, by chance, already spayed, then I would guess that it is a very recent spay. That would also mean that the "bond" is also new and quite fragile (as is evident).

 

[Preitler]

Well, puberty is in full swing and that's the time when they establish their hierachy, sometimes it's quite easy, at other times hormones turn a doe into a PitA.
I have 2 pairs of does now, intact, but they are outside bunnies, I'll never try to take in any of those unspayed again (My free range house bunny is a intact buck - perfect pet). My does are mother daughter pairs, that made it somewhat easier to select the right one fom a litter at 5 months.

"Fighting" is realitive, tufts of hair flying and some chasing is pretty normal, although hard to watch. As long as one doe runs away I havn't yet seen it escalate into something serious. But they need space, and a way to get out of each others sight for hours. I rarely seperate them because imho it get's worse when they meet again, eager to make a point. And some does simply don't know when to quit harassing her roommate, had to sell a doe that got really depressive beside her hyper dominant mother, it's not always easy to find characters that get along, and there's no advantage in them being sisters.

Anyway, most of that is hormonell and spaying may help, but just in case bonding fails I would keep in mind that there's the option to replace one rabbit with a neutered buck, imho live is too short to spend it fretting over something that doesn't work out.

 

[addy]

Yes both have been spayed before I adopted them I think several months before. If it is just hormones I wonder how long it is going to take until they can be together again? It is hard to watch the hair loss! I get nervous.

 

[addy]

I'm so indecisive. Should I attempt to rebond them maybe a few months later after Mochi grows up? Or should I replace her with a neutered buck?

 

[Blue eyes]

Most vets won't spay a female until they are 4 or 5 months of age. If Mochi is only 5 months, I'm guessing her spay is very recent.

It takes time after a spay to recuperate and settle down. Not until then can bonding begin. Based on that it doesn't sound like these 2 rabbits were "bonded" for very long at all. That means that their "bond" wasn't well-established. From where did these two rabbits come?

If they came from an actual rabbit rescue, I would contact them and let them know what is happening. They should be made aware now in case this bond doesn't work. If not, they should be willing to exchange one rabbit for another.

If you want to try to bond them again, I'd suggest keeping them apart for 2 weeks and then starting the process again. If you decide to do this, still let the rescue know now that there are problems.

 

[addy]

Yes they came from a rescue. I contacted them. They weren't very helpful. They just gave me a link on how to bond rabbits and told me if it does not work that I can surrender Mochi. I don't think they have bunny dating services; that would have been helpful. I asked directly if they could help me re-bond or have Panda bond with other rabbit they have, but I am still waiting for an email back.

Ok I could try to bond again in 2 weeks! I will let you know what happens.

 

[addy]

Update: The rescue said I cannot exchange rabbits. They also advise that the only male they have there shouldn't be bonded again because his bond was previously broken.

 

[Blue eyes]

That's odd. Are they an actual "rabbit rescue?' What part of the country are you? They sold you a pair of rabbits as a "bonded pair." Clearly they were not (or not established) if they are having issues already. That just isn't right.

 

[addy]

I'm in Northern VA. The rescue is an animal rescue and not specifically a rabbit one. They seem to only have a few rabbits max at one time. Now they have 3.

 

[Blue eyes]

Bummer. Generic shelters aren't the greatest in their knowledge of rabbits.

There are two rabbit rescues there that perhaps may be able to help. They are usually happy to offer advice minimally. I would consider calling them and explaining the situation -- that you've only had them a month, that you got them from ___ shelter and think they weren't yet a solid bond (based on Mochi's age).

Here are the websites. You can find their adoptable rabbits as well. The rabbit rescues tend to be both knowledgeable about rabbits, about bonding and are willing to offer advice.

http://www.friendsofrabbits.org/
http://www.bunnylu.org/adoptions.php

 

[addy]

Ok I just contacted them. Thanks for your help!

 

[addy]

By the way the mouth photos are here. They happen like every 2 weeks.

 

[JBun]

So, you have a health issue going on with that bun. It could also be causing the recent fighting, as when a rabbit has a health problem and is in pain from it, this can cause the hurting rabbit to lash out.

So the green mouth is actually from drooling, likely due to a dental problem. It could be something like a molar spur or could be a tooth infection. Mochi may be lashing out at Panda because of her mouth pain, especially if it's occurring at eating time, because that's when her mouth will be hurting the most. It could be that once you've addressed the health problem, that both rabbits will then get along fine. You might also find that Mochi becomes a much happier friendlier bun to you when she no longer has her mouth hurting all of the time. I know dental problems make me pretty grumpy too.

Regardless of the exact cause, your rabbit will need to be seen by a rabbit savvy vet and the dental problem taken care of. If this was going on when you first got her, the rescue really should take responsibility for her treatment(they may not though) as it will likely cost a bit. I would definitely contact them and tell them of the excessive drooling and suspected dental problem as the cause, and if they won't take responsibility for costs, at least they may have a vet that can give you a discount for her dental treatment.
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/excessive_en.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/D_problems1.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Treatment/Clipping.htm

https://rabbit.org/vet-listings/

Not sure how reliable this rescue is, but if Mochi truly is 5 months old and their claim of her being spayed is true, when you got her the fur on her belly should have still been quite short or missing from being shaved for the spay surgery. If it wasn't short or shaved at all, I would have my doubts as to her having actually been spayed, especially at that young age. You may want to request their spay certificates from the vet that did the spays if possible, just to confirm they were in fact spayed.

Another thing that makes me doubt this rescue, is that their claim about the male bun not being able to be bonded again because of a previous failed bond. That's completely inaccurate. He may not be able to be rebonded with his previous companion, but he certainly could be found another rabbit that he gets along with. It may just be their inexperience with rabbits though, not knowing this stuff.

 

[addy]

Ok thanks for the insight!

If my rabbit actually does have a dental problem, approximately how much is a full price repair of this problem? I don't think the rescue will help pay for it unless I completely surrender her and it's their responsibility at that point.

If I end up taking her to the vet (visits cost money after the first visit... where she was normal) and surrender her I feel like I just wasted my money on caring for a rabbit I don't own. The rescue has their own vet - I remember them saying that when I adopted.

Yes both bunnies have missing fur on their belly.

 

[addy]

However if she bonds better with Panda after the dental stuff is over maybe it is worth a visit...

Also, Mochi eats A LOT. Is that strange for a dental problem?

 

[JBun]

It would be odd for a rabbit to eat more with a dental problem. It's possible there is something else going on there. Have you noticed exactly when the wet chin occurs? Is it right after eating and does she ever seem to be chewing oddly? Or another thought is if she drinks from a water dish, does she dunk her chin in there and could she be getting it wet that way?

So it sounds like they were just spayed then not long before you got them since they both still have their shaved bellies. It's possible the fighting could also be due to the fact that it can take up to 2 months after a spay, for hormones to completely fade. So if it's only been a month since you've had them, the hormones may still need to die down.

 

[addy]

I see the wet chin occurring after eating, but I will have to pay close attention. Yes she drinks out of a water dish but I am not sure if she dunks her chin in. This morning, her fur was clean. One time she was dirty for 2 weeks straight and all the sudden she got clean so I didnt bring her in. I wonder if she's getting better at hygiene?

If it is hormones, perhaps I should just keep her for several weeks in hopes that she will behave better. I wonder what the chances are that she will eventually allow me to pet her?

PS: I got an alternative. There is a 2 year old neutered male rabbit available at another shelter (a generic animal one) and they help with bonding! They have a rabbit specialist there. Thank goodness.

 

[addy]

UPDATE: I was going to return Mochi today and notified the rescue. However, my bf keeps on being very wishy washy about keeping/caring for her and told me not to turn her in today; he needs to think about it. He said a few days ago that the answer is a 98% "NO" on keeping her but his soft spot transformed him!

If I told the shelter that I found a new potential owner, would they make him go through the adoption process all over again including payment? I don't know exactly what to say to them.