Please send good wishes. Baci is at the vet now.

[Maureen Las]

You are probably at the vet now . Good Luck

I am wondering if the vet took an xray of the abdomen.

The grinding indicates that he is in significant pain

 

[bunnylove817]

Good luck to you both! Baci is in my prayers

 

[tonyshuman]

With the grinding, a narcotic pain med might be good. The vit b comp injection was good and should haqve stimulated his appetite some. Good luck.

 

[Pet_Bunny]

Get the vet to show you how to Sub-Q Baci so you can do it at home.

Lucky for me, Pebbles can eat CC on her own. I never tried the Apple/banana flavored CC, but try using some flavored water or ensure to mix your CC.

 

[JimD]

ray:

 

[ra7751]

Umm....sometimes I wonder about referrals oke that since they are rarely researched. And in my non-professional opinion, gut motility drugs are inappropriate for rabbits. If you search, or maybe someone can do it for me since I don't do well on computers, I have many posts regarding the dangers of these drugs. And they are a "no lose" for the vet.....if the rabbit survives, they can poke their chest out and claim hero status....and if the rabbit dies due to the drugs, the "out" is they were too far gone or you were too late for the drugs to have any benefit (and they have no benefit). I have had rabbits in which their guts have totally shut down (a condition called ileus) and had them pull thru....no motility drugs (and they never will be used here) and appropriate fluids. A gut in stasis will become dehydrated and rigid. Look at it like a piece of pasta....a dry (dehydrated) piece of pasta will break with any type of pressure. These drugs create pressure in the form of harsh contractions. The change in pH and the irritation from harmful bacteria can create ulcers on an already thin GI wall. The contractions induced by the drugs have much the same effect as trying to bend a dehydrated piece of pasta....it breaks. The ulcer can perforate and there is only one outcome to that scenario. But look at a fully hydrated piece of pasta....it's verypliable....just like a properly hydrated GI should be. Hydration should always be the primary attack on stasis....not motility drugs. And if you Google metaclopramide, the side effects (and the pending lawsuits) are scary. As far as Metacam, I also question the use of that drug since it can be harmful to the liver in dehydrated animals (any species) and stasis patients are always dehyrated. A narcotic or narcotic like drug might be a better choice....but, they are also known to slow a gut. So, that has to be considered too.....and pain will also slow a gut. Decisions, decisions. Hoping for the best here.

Randy

 

[hln917]

Thanks for the good wishes everyone.

Randy~ I really like your analogy re: the pasta. I used it to explain to hubby the importance of hydrating Baci. I was surprised with your feelings about the Metacam. This is the first time we've ever used it. I know alot of people here give their buns Metacam for pain. I just assumed it was safe. What other narcotic drugs for pain is safe for rabbits? I will bring it up with the vet next time.

Hubby did take Baci back to the vet yesterday. They took another look at his molars. (In Oct,he had them shaved down, similiar problem.) Looks like his molars were growing into his cheeks again. This time she saw small ulcers growing which was creating his uncomfort. He was actually trying to grind his own teeth which was making it worse. That was what we were hearing on Wed nite. She ground down his molars again and we'll probably have to bring him in at least every two months now to have it checked out. After Baci came home he ran straight into his potty, pooped and peed a little and this was the pic hubby sent me at work.

He ate some lettuce than ran into his cage and ate pellet.

By the time I came home last night he was stretching comfortably in front of the fire and nibbled on more lettuce, pellets and hay. He also hopped around exploring. He did poop ALOT last night! Unfortunately not in the potty but in front of the girls' cage. It was my turn to stay out with him last night. (poor hubby only slept a total of 4 hrs in 2 nights) I woke up this morning and found him sleeping on top of some blankets in a basket. He didn't eat his lettuce last night but did eat some pellets. He's also drinking water on his own. He's not 100% yet but at least 65%. He's quiet again this morning. Hopefully just tired.

I'll keep you posted on his progress.

 

[Pipp]

Yay! Sounds like he's bouncing back. Pipp usually follows the same route after her spurs surgeries.

You might want to really up the veggies and the variety and try and keep the teeth wearing down naturally. Pipp was supposed to be getting them done every two months, but with the right diet it's annual.

Pellets don't help the teeth at all. Hay is good, as is grass. Pipp won't eat either, so she gets a huge plate of veggies, all varieties, shapes, textures, sizes and colors -- and its working. Kale seems to help, ditto with carrot tops and other stemmy veggies, although again, variety is the key. (I just read that celery has the same tooth-wearing ingredient as grass, she won't eat celery, just the leaves, but that may be another good one).

She hardly gets any pellets, but she still won't eat hay, but normally a variety of hays is good as well -- different cuts, different varieties.


sas :goodluck

 

[kirbyultra]

Yay! What a way to begin the new year

 

[nicolevins]

thats great!

happy new year to you & Baci

he will make a big recovery dont worry

 

[ra7751]

Glad the analogy about the pasta worked for you. I use it with vets all the time. You should see their faces. A rabbit's gut is much different than a dog or cat and I think they sometimes get into a habit. Doesn't work with rabbits. That is why hydration, not drugs, should be used in stasis situations. But when a gut dehyrates, it gets rigid....to get it moving again, it needs to be pliable. And hydration will do that.

Many people consider Metacam to be perfectly safe....all medical treatments have side effects. Just think, water is essential to life but ingesting too much water can be fatal. The thing with drugs is to determine if the potential benefit outweighs the negatives. Metacam is an NSAID (technically, if I remember correctly it's an Enolic Acid). There are two concerns with using NSAIDs...especially long term. One is the formation of gastric ulcers. Rabbits are quite prone to them during GI events. Ulcers can cause swelling in the surrounding tissues and result in a blockage or they can perforate (one of the reasons the contractions induced by gut motility drugs can be so deadly). These drugs are also metabolized and filtered thru the liver. Ask your personal doctor....if people are on NSAIDs long term, tests should be performed to check the liver. I think there has been some discussion in the media some months ago about overdosing NSAIDs. With baby wildlife, we make sure the animal is properly hydrated. We use Metacam for a limited time....a one time "loading dose" (a double dose to increase working levels quickly) and then no more than3 doses of normal amounts after that. The thing with narcotics is that they do tend to slow things down...including the gut. But so does pain. Again, you have to weigh the benefits against the risks. I personally have no problem giving narcotics since I know how to keep the gut going thru proper hydration. Buprenorphine is the best possible analgesic for moderate to severe pain. But it is a controlled drug. An acceptable substitute would be a narcotic like drug called Tramadol.

Randy

 

[ra7751]

Just an additional thought....do you have any x-rays of the skull? If so, and if they are digital, can you send them to me? Molar spurs can be caused by several things. One is too many pellets and not enough hay. If Baci will eat hay...try to get some very stemmy hay.....Bunny Bale is usually very tough hay. Hay is the primary way to keep those teeth down. It could be malocclusion. It might be necessary to either keep floating those molars every month or so....or extract the offending molar and it's opposing molar. Trauma at some point can cause malocclusion. Could be genetic. And this is a case where I have to consider Metabolic Bone Disease. This condition is the result of inadequate nutrition. Probably not on your part but much more thru the belief that rabbit should not get calcium. MBD is something we are very in tune to when doing wildlife. Most house animals (including wildlife in rehab) don't get enough exposure to unfiltered sunlight. This results in a Vitamin D deficiency. This retards the absorbing of calcium. And rabbits excrete over half the calcium they intake. Since most pet rabbits are in some degree of dehydration, this can result in some renal issues. Fact is, rabbits need calcium since they have bones and teeth. Many dental issues and skeletal issues are the result of MBD. And many older rabbits are improperly diagnosed with arthritis....but the root cause is MBD. Most vets don't consider MBD very often. Honestly, except for wildlife vets, I have never heard it mentioned by private practice vets. But just something that should be included in the treatments.

Randy

 

[DeniseJP]

Best wishes for Baci to stay hydrated and keep pooping - you are all in my thoughts and prayers.

Denise

 

[hln917]

Thanks everyone, this is a great start to the New Year's! He just finished his plate of lettuce. I think the refrig is overloaded with different types of lettuce and hubby just went out to get more. Baci is very picky. He wouldn't touch the parsley. I'll try kale next.

Randy~ I don't have an xray of his skull,but I will ask the vet to take one next time, when we go next month to check on his molars again.Thanks for the suggestion, I just ordered some hay from BunnyBale, hopefully Baci will eat it. Unfortunately he's not a big hay eater ever since we took away the alfalfa hay, I may just take away the pellets and just leave hay and lettuce to see if that helps. Aside from the sunlight, how else can a rabbit receive the necessary calcium?

 

[ra7751]

It's not calcium from the sunlight....it's the Vitamin D. Vitamin D is basically the instrument for absorbing calcium. We use aVitamin D/Phosphorus/Calcium supplement with squirrels and opossums. Make sure your pellets contain Vitamin D supplement. If not, I can dose Vitamin D for you based on weight.I use pellets only for the Vitamin D. The problem with alfalfa hay is the calories....it can add weight. It also contains lots of calcium. If you increase calcium without Vitamin D and if the rabbit is anywhere close to dehydrated, it is possible to have some renal issues. Over half of the calcium intake in a rabbit is excreted in the urine. Many people have long had the notion that excessive calcium causes bladder sludge. In my experience, it appears dehydration is much more the root cause of bladder sludge along with Vitamin D deficiencies than the calcium intake itself. I have had rabbits develop bladder sludge and they had never had alfalfa hay or any other high calcium food (one did develop E Cuniculi) and we have rabbits that eat only alfalfa hay with no renal issues. And in the big picture....alfalfa hay is better than no hay at all.

Randy

 

[sbaxter]

inkbouce: So glad Baci`s feeling better soon be 100%

 

[hln917]

Thanks Sue.

Pet_Bunny wrote:

Get the vet to show you how to Sub-Q Baci so you can do it at home.

I keep reading about this. Whats does it entail and is it complicated?

 

[Pet_Bunny]

hln917 wrote:

I keep reading about this (Sub Q). Whats does it entail and is it complicated?

I Sub Q using the Syringe Method.
The best is to have your Vet show you, and set you up with all the materials. This video is done on a cat but it is similar to what I am doing for Pebbles.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5X0-S275YE&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5X0-S275YE&feature=related[/ame]


More info.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=43362&forum

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=37848&forum_id=10

 

[ra7751]

One suggestion for syringe infusions. Use a "butterfly" catheter. If you use a regular syringe and the rabbit jumps, it can cause severe damage to the tissue. With a catheter, it has a flexible tube and the worst that will happen is that it will pull out. And by using this type catheter with a luer lock syringe, you can make multiple infusions with only one needle stick. Luer lock syringes come in sizes from 3cc to 60cc.

Randy

 

[Pet_Bunny]

ra7751 wrote:

One suggestion for syringe infusions. Use a "butterfly" catheter. With a catheter, it has a flexible tube and the worst that will happen is that it will pull out. And by using this type catheter with a luer lock syringe, you can make multiple infusions with only one needle stick. Luer lock syringes come in sizes from 3cc to 60cc.

This is exactly what I am doing. The "butterfly" catheter makes things so much easier, and you can push the fluids through the tubes without moving the needle. Pebbles takes a 60ccsyringeper day, so I don't have to make multiple infusions.