Need some help w/ Stasis

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TinysMom

TinysMom

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, Texas, USA
Normally when a rabbit goes into stasis I catch it pretty soon and start them on pumpkin w/ baby food and pull them out of it fairly easy. Maybe not "easy"...but between that and sub q fluids...

This has been a different case. I shared a bit about New Hope in my blog - he has maloclussion (we regularly trim his teeth) and he was starting to go into wry neck - along w/ going into stasis.

For the last three or four days though we've been working with New Hope to pull him through. He's been very weak and I continually thought we were going to lose him.

Then last night - he drank about 1 ounce of water on his own....started passing some poops (two long strings sort of and then some small individual dampish poops). Since then we've been giving him baby food every 2 hours and simethicone, etc. He drank a lot a little bit ago.

However, he has gone from taking the baby food mixture (because he really was too weak) - to fighting us. I'm not sure if the stress is good for him.

Robin was up with him most of the night and over the last few hours she said he's been passing gas a lot and also his intestines have started gurgling and rumbling.

I guess my question is - what do I give him now? I have hay in front of him (along with water). My gut instinct is to not yet give him pellets. I feel like they're too heavy for him - but I can't explain it.

His case is just so different from other cases we've had. He went into more of a shut down (and got more dehydrated) than the others did....so I'm not sure what to do. I can continue to push the baby food/pumpkin every couple of hours today but thought maybe there was another better option.

I'm really proud of him though. Up until last night, I was preparing myself every day to lose him. I really felt there was "no hope" for New Hope. But now he's alert and fighting us and passing poops...I think he has a fighting chance.

I just want to make sure I give him the right things at this time. I think part of the problem is the maloclussion...it does make it harder for him to eat (although he just had his teeth trimmed last week before this happened).

Peg
 
Will he eat the baby food mix on his own? What about mixing just a bit of wet pellets in with that? That's how I fed Clover in her first weeks.

Also, will he eat pumpkin straight?

Poos are good - no matter if they are wet - they are moving! YAY!

Can you spritz some of the hay with something really tasty?

If someone is a chemist here - please develop a banana flavored hay spritz. Thank you.
 
Yeah use JIm's method and spray the hay with peppermint tea. The hay is better than the pellets when they are being fragile still but peppermint is ace for the stomach digestion gas etc. You could put a very weak peppermint tea for his water too to help.
 
New House Rule: Never ever send Peggy to the store saying, "We need stuff for the sick bunny.." alone. Make her take a list (I did) and then stick to ONLY that list.

I went to get fresh pineapple, some more baby food to try different flavors (in case we can't get the pumpkin in him...I do try to mix it some), mint, etc.

Almost $70 later I come home with all that plus a new brand of Earl Grey tea (to get mom through the stress), sunflower seeds (unsalted) to see if Tiny will take one instead of chewing on the carpet, rabbit snacks (to see if I can keep Tiny from chewing on the carpet), red leaf lettuce (to find something else to tempt New Hope with), French bread (for the adults) - and so much more.

I did get some bubble gum flavored pedialyte and I've been told in the past that bunnies love buble gum flavoring. I'm going to try to use that to get more fluids into him too.

I'll keep y'all update on how he does.

Peg
 
Maybe a pellet slurry?

Or some Critical Care?

....or Nutrical?
 
Bo B Bunny wrote:
If someone is a chemist here - please develop a banana flavored hay spritz. Thank you.
Click to expand...
so they do have artificial banana flavoring-we made it in my undergrad organic chem class. but it is that nasty stuff that doesn't really taste like banana. you know how banana-flavored runts, popsicles, etc don't really taste like banana? that is the banana flavoring. you could make it yourself, if you could get your hands on some acetic acid (vinegar) and isoamyl alcohol (not sure how you could get that). the reaction is really simple. i don't know if bunnies are fooled by artificial banana flavoring though...
you could melt up a banana popsicle, dilute in water, then spray onto hay. or maybe they sell artificial banana flavoring in the seasoning aisle at the grocery store?
 
He just gobbled up willingly (almost) - 6 cc of the bubble gum pedialyte mixed w/ some pineapple juice.

So I've mixed him up some slurry but used some of the pedialyte in it. He's eying it and sniffing at it and showing more interest in it than anything else all week.

This is day....five I think. I'd have to go back and check notes...but we've been giving him sub q fluids along with pumpkin/baby food....

He seems to enjoy the heating pad. Its got a towel on it so he won't get too hot..

Peg

JimD wrote:
Maybe a pellet slurry?

Or some Critical Care?

....or Nutrical?
Click to expand...
 
Hi, I think Critical Care is the best thing. It has a lot of fiber. I used to make "Bananna Balls" with the critical care. I would add just enough hot water to some CC to like a real dry pastey mix. Then I would take a piece of Bananna and mash it with a fork and mix it w/ CC mixture. My benny that was sick loved them.

Will New Hope eat "Endive", it will give him more fluids. I also used to rub my bunny's belly.

Have you ever read the article at http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html? The Author, Dana M. Krempels, Ph.D. Department of Biology., wrote it. She has a rabbit rescue. She is very nice and will answer any email within a few hours.

The article does say the following about gas;

"Simethicone

  • (liquid, pediatric suspension or tablets) is essential for the relief of gas pain which usually accompanies ileus. For relief of acute gas pain, 1-2 cc (20mg/ml suspension) can be given as often as every hour for three doses, then 1 cc every three to eight hours. "
  • I hope New Hope gets better.
  • Michelle:)
 
Umm...banana flavored spritz....so easy. Check out this site http://www.flavorx.com/human/flavorx101.asp

These are human flavors but I also use them for rabbits. Cottontails seem to like bubble gum...go figure. Many pharmacies are now carrying a home version from this company called FlavorIt. FlavorX also has a veterinary division. For those of you that are using Baytril....if you use the injectable version as an oral drug..it is very nasty tasting...flavor it. HINT: Most pharmacies carry flavoring. Ask the pharmacist (or as some know them, chemists) for some. While the large chain stores have policies against this practice, the smaller "mom and pop" stores are very likely to help you when they find it's for an animal in need. And all it takes is a call from your vet if needed.

And a quick word of caution on using simethicone. It is another one of those drugs that are considered without side effects. Truth is, simethicone can have a constipating effect on it's own in certain situations. When combined with some analgesics...such as buprenex, it can really put a stop sign up in the GI and usually causes some very undesirable results. There are always trade offs in using drugs...as I have mentioned before...the trick for effective drug treatment is to weigh the benefits vs. risks. Simethicone does carry some side effects that should be considered in a stasis/ileus situation.

The absolute best treatment for a stasis situation once a rabbit is thereis aggressive fluid therapy...preferably either sub-q or IV. We have different stage protocols starting with movement, wet greens and heat and progressing as the event matures into more aggressive therapies. And this is my personal non-professional opinion....I never use gut motility drugs in any GI situation with a rabbit. If you look at trends....looks atrabbits that have been administered these drugs and see where the next thread is. Again, and I am sure this will create controversy, in my non-professional opinion based on my years of experience....I will never use motility drugs. Fluid therapy always works for us.

And by all means...find the root cause of stasis as it is almost always a symptom of something else.

Randy
 
He just got done taking almost 20 cc of half pineapple juice (fresh pineapple) and half bubble gum flavored pedialyte.

He thought about taking more and looked at me and was like, "I think my tummy is full" so I let him quit.

He LOVED the fluids though and although it has been a real struggle to get him to take anything all week and we've been doing sub q fluids....this makes close to 40 cc of the pedialyte and pineapple juice he's had in the last four hours...so I'm pretty pleased.

Now if we can get him to take hay (I'm about to spritz it w/ the pedialyte I think)....

Peg
 
That's awesome Peg!!! I'm so excited that he's drank so much today!

Randy, I've seen that stuff but do you think the banana is really banana flavored or artificial yuk? Bo is SO finicky! He even hates mint so I can't even use that to spritz and encourage it. My horses will run you over for a candy cane! LOL!

tonysmom, I think I'll look for something - maybe I'll just start mooshing a banana in some water and mixing it in with some hay or something if they need to eat hay.

Clover would eat her weight in papaya tablets if I let her. LOL! Maybe I could use papaya juice to spritz with? Bo loves dried papaya!
 
Another 15 cc of the pedialyte/pineapple juice - and this time he fought me on the food even harder.

He does NOT want to eat anything right now - but he will drink and he is getting noticeably more alert and feisty.

I'm going to try to push some food again in a couple of hours - but so far I'm seeing improvements in him and he really does LOVE the bubble gum flavor pedialyte....or the pineapple...not sure which.

I think that for his next feeding I'll mix some in w/ pumpkin to see if he'll take it that way.

Peg
 
Well, think of it this way - when you are sick and dehydrated from the flu or whatever - you sure don't feel like eating! If you get him fluids going really well - maybe his appetite will return.

THEN AGAIN - maybe he just likes the good stuff !!!

:p
 
OMG....I just walked out into the living room and guess who was picking through some of the food that had dropped on the floor in front of Miss Bea's cage?

It looks like (but don't quote me on it) - He's eating SOLIDS!

I'll know more tomorrow..

Peg
 
I think we're coming out of the woods.

He ate about 10 pellets for sure during the night and he also nibbled on some of the hay. I don't see any poops yet from during the night but I can feel his intestines rumbling when we hold him.

He also feels better when I feel his body - like he has a tiny bit more meat. Sounds crazy since he hasn't had that much to eat - maybe it is because he's been having a lot of fluids.

I feel like we're still in the woods but can see the light at the edge of the forest and we're making our way there.

Peg
 
Sometimes this works, when Penny is eating poorly. Seems like a similar case.

I would water down the pellets, wait for them to become soggy. Put in a favorite treat (banana), mix it. And then make multiple "towers" of pellet gush. Like long tubes, vertically (1.5cm wide, 6cm long-in the air). So that they stick up in the air, makes it easier for her to eat them.

Penny has to get her incisors trimmed too, I don't know why, but this helps her eat.
 
Bo B...as far as the flavoring....it's very tasty. I must admit that I am not a very good pill taker...so many times I will compound a suspension for myself. I have yet to have a FlavorX offering the didn't taste as advertised. And to be honest...I take a little taste of everything before I give it to the buns....and I can assure you without doubt that Baytril is very nasty tasting...it ranks right up there with metronidazole as being terrible tasting. It does help with the oral drugs. Flavor of the month here is watermelon. And you know...you can be creative since all buns don't like all flavors. I have even used a hint of vanilla flavoring....and even some artificial sweetener. Just make sure there is extremely low or better...no sugar in these flavorings.Like everything else....do these flavorings in moderaton.

Randy
 
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