Need help with a possible sick bunny

[Lifted07Duramax]

He is 1 1/2 years old. This isnt the problem but just wanted to say that he has been sneezing for over a year. Ive had him to the vet and they gave me some meds which did nothing so that was a waste of $75.
He sneezes to the point where it sounds like he tries to puke or something.

Anyways the issue is he wont eat or drink his water. He is popping but not near as much as before. If I give him a carrot or lettuce he eats it up real fast but wont touch his normal bagged food anymore that hes been eating his whole life.

If I put water in a dropper he will drink it but he wont go up to his own bottle and drink from it.

He runs around just fine and doesnt act like his sick but he does lay half in and half out of his litter box so that the side of the litter box presses up into his stomach/chest area which he wasnt doing before he stopped eating his food.

Any thoughts on whats wrong? Im alil weary of taking him to the vet as it seems everytime I go to the vet with a pet it costs a lot and usually results in no help

 

[JBun]

Have they ever taken xrays or checked for pneumonia? Rabbits will usually go off pellets first when they are feeling really sick. It's generally not a good sign and unfortunately going to the vet may be necessary. Maybe try finding a different vet to take him to.

He really needs to keep eating. Does he have hay that he's eating? If he stops eating it could be because he's in pain, and he also may be developing GI stasis. If he's stopped eating and pooping for several hours, you really need to get him to the vet.

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

Yes hes eating hay, carrots, lettuce. whatever I put in front of him but if I push his dish food infront of him he hasnt eaten it for 3 days now or drank from his water.
But if I give him a dropper with water he'll drink it up fast.
Yes hes popping normal, not seeing too much pee though

He runs around like hes just fine too not acting sick other than the food and water thing

 

[JBun]

If it's a water bottle he won't drink out of, try putting a water dish out instead. He might feel more inclined to drink from the dish.

Is it possible that it's his teeth that are bothering him? That will affect their eating and they can get runny eyes with it. I don't know if it can cause runny noses. Rabbits can also have allergies and that can cause clear discharge. If the discharge isn't clear then you are probably dealing with some sort of respiratory infection.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

We have a couple that hardly eat any pellet, but they go thru hay and veggies just fine--just how they are. If Finn had all the pellet he could eat, he'd be a 30 pound mini.

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

Well Im waiting to see if hes popping and how much. i just cleaned his litter box.
He isnt eating carrots like he was yesterday but he is eating lettuce.
He runs around and is very active if I let him out.

The wet nose could just be from his sneezing but like I said hes been doing that for over a year now. Its like he has allergies.
He does live in my room in his plastic cage so he's not being kept in outdoor weather.

Ill see how he is by tomorrow and maybe take him to the vet. I figured starving him would make him eat his dish food but he didnt touch it at all in 3 days.

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

Ok hes eating carrots again, he'll eat anything I put infront of his face but not if I sit it down and expect him to eat it.

He is lightly pooping but it looks very odd shape almost like a capillary in blood lol
It doesnt look bloody though. Im going to let him keep trying to poop for the rest of the night and then inspect it in morning right befoer I take him to vet.

 

[JBun]

Irregular poops aren't good. Definitely get him into the vet. I hope it goes well and the vet can figure out what the problem is.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

:yeahthat:

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

Ok I got some meds and laxitive from vet yesterday and he wouldnt eat or drink anything now.
so I took him back into vet today and had xrays done he has a big hairball in him but everything else looked fine.
No stones, the vet got him to take in 17cc of water mixed with whatever this med was. Its a nutrition med and then she gave him some laxitive.

Now I just need to get him to drink some pineapple juice

 

[JBun]

Is this vet very experienced with rabbits? Laxatives are rarely recommended for blockages with rabbits any more as it coats the blockage and makes it harder for it to get moisture to it to help break it up. And though it used to be believed that blockages were hairballs, that's not really the case. Excess injested hair can create a gut slowdown that in turn creates a blockage. What meds did your vet prescribe, and what other things did the vet say to give to your rabbit? Also, pineapple juice isn't a recommended thing any more either. There is some debate whether the enzymes from fresh(and it does have to be fresh to have the enzymes)pineapple even really help at all and may actually not be good for use in GI stasis cases because the sugars can make the problem worse.

Did your vet tell you that it was GI stasis? That's what a gut blockage is. It's very serious and potentially fatal if the right things aren't done right away. You should have been given metacam for pain, possibly a gut motility drug to help stimulate the digestive system and get things moving, simethicone for gas relief, and oxbow critical care food mix to syringe feed to your rabbit so it's getting food and nutrition every day. The metacam is to control any gut pain that your rabbit may be experiencing because rabbits usually won't eat if they are in pain. It's essential to keep your rabbit hydrated. The water is needed to help break up the blockage. So if your rabbit isn't drinking then you need to be syringe feeding water. The critical care is to keep the gut moving which is also essential to getting the blockage broken up. The only time you wouldn't be syringe feeding is if there is a complete blockage, and in that case your vet should have recommended surgery. Baytril(antibiotic) should only be used if absolutely necessary trying to control bacteria overgrowth in the gut. Giving your rabbit a probiotic is also helpful, and necessary if you are giving an antibiotic.

It really is important to be seeing a vet experienced with rabbits so that you are getting the right treatment for your rabbit, and to me it doesn't sound like this vet is. You may want to look on this forum and the HRS website to find a vet that is better with rabbits. I don't want to overly concern you, but in a way I also do want you to be concerned. Everything else may have looked ok in the xray, but that big hairball is a big concern by itself. GI stasis is very serious. I had a rabbit die from it earlier this year.

Here's a good article on GI stasis that will give you a better idea what you are dealing with. I really hope you're able to get the care for your rabbit that it needs and that your bun will be ok.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

She did give me oxbow, thats what she got 17cc down his throat of mixed with water though.
She gave me Baytril and Rimadyl which I guess is for pain. I think Baytril is for his nasal congestion.

I've already shelled out over $200 so instead of seeing another vet can you tell me what I should be giving him to get this blockage broken up and where I can purchase it?

 

[JBun]

I'm sorry, I don't want to discourage you. I just was concerned about your rabbit when you said some of the things the vet gave/suggested.

Is your rabbit pooping at all? What about eating anything on his own or drinking? How much of the critical care food that you give depends on whether he's eating or not, and how much. If he's not eating at all by himself then you need to feed the critical care every 3-4 hours, and if he's not drinking, you'll need to syringe water as well. You want to syringe into the side of the mouth and slowly, a little at a time, giving him time to lick it up. You don't want to do it too quickly and risk him aspirating. My rabbit didn't take water syringed, very well, so I just mixed in extra water into the critical care instead. I think the water and the critical care, are really the most important to help get things moving. Make sure he has hay to nibble on, and try some leafy greens like cilantro or green leaf lettuce or parsley. Sometimes rabbits will eat leafy greens before anything else. Avoid fruit, sugars, grains,starches(carrots), and carbs. They can make the problem worse.

I don't know how I feel about the laxatives. If it was me, I wouldn't be giving them unless nothing else was working. I'm not sure about the pineapple juice either. I don't use it myself cause I worry about giving that much sugar to a sick rabbit. There is a little pineapple and papaya already in the critical care mix. If your vet gave you baytril you should have also been given a probiotic. If not, you need to get one either from the vet, some petstores will have it, you could get a non dairy one from a health food store, or some horse tack and feed stores have it as well. The most common pet brands are benebac or probios, and you want a 15 or 30 gr. gel syringe, or a powder that you can mix in with the critical care and feed that way.

Rimadyl isn't the best anti inflammatory pain med to be giving to rabbits. It can irritate their stomachs and cause liver problems in rabbits. Metacam is much safer and better for rabbits. I would call the vet and express your concerns with using it, and ask for some metacam instead.

If your rabbit is having gas problems where he seems uncomfortable and the stomach is kind of hard, and there may be loud gurgling sounds coming from the stomach, then you will also want to give him simethicone. It's an OTC infant gas relief med in a flavored syrup. The dosage is 1cc every hour for 1-3 hrs., then 1cc every 3-8 hrs. as needed. You can get it at walmart, or any pharmacy.

If your rabbit isn't pooping in the next day or two, talk to your vet about giving your rabbit a gut motility drug. If you are concerned about it you could even ask for it now. I never ended up needing to use it for my rabbit so I'm unsure about when it is needed.

I hope this helps.

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

Pooping yes, but smaller than normal size and not as much. Maybe 20 peebles a day and pees maybe a few ml a day compared to a few ounces but that could also be lack of water right?

How many ml of water should I be feeding him a day til he gets better?

He is not eating or drinking on his own but he does not seem sick he is very very active he just has no interest in food or water unless I put it infront of his face and keep pushing it at his mouth. He'll eat lettuce and carrots and a tad tad bit of timothy hay. He was eating it really good a couple days ago but doesnt seem interested in it now.

I saw you said not to give him carrots so that really only leaves me with lettuce and that oxbow formula.
Im sorry I must've missed it in your post but what can i give him to help break up the hairball?

As far as the pain meds they are closed now and wont be open til monday. Is there something I can pick up at walmart thatll do a better job without the side effects as what the vet gave me?

and how can I tell if he has gas? I dont hear a gurgling noise but he does look like hes trying to poop all the time but no poop comes out so Im guessing he has gas?

 

[JBun]

You can basically tell if your rabbit is in pain when it either grinds it's teeth, or if he is acting abnormally by either sitting in the back or a corner of his cage sitting up kind of hunched up and not really moving around at all. He may also sit up and then lay back down a lot, like he is trying to find a position of comfort, or he may lay down a lot and press his belly to the ground because it feels uncomfortable. If he's not doing any of these behaviors, then he may not have gas and may not be in pain, so you wouldn't need to give him a pain med. Is he showing any of these behaviors or acting not like his usual self, except for the not eating?

Basically feeding the critical care and water is what will help rehydrate the blockage and help break it up, that's why water and food are so important. Have you tried offering him water in a dish to see if he would drink? If he won't, you'll have to make a guess as to how much water to give him. Rabbits will consume about an ounce of water a day per lb. of body weight, thenyou just divide that amount into the number of times that you'll be feeding him. The food is one part critical care to 3 parts water. You basically want a thick soup like consistancy so that it will not clog up the syringe. I fed my rabbit about 6cc per feeding and my rabbit weighs 3 lbs. Plus I would mix his water ration into the food mix, so I ended up feeding about 9-12cc. But that is based on weight. I think once you are regularly feeding him and he is getting more water, he will start pooping and peeing more. I would offer plenty of leafy greens too,unless he starts having soft poops. Rinse the veggies off right before you give them to him, that way he is getting extra water from it. You could try some cilantro and parsley for some different leafy greens besides the lettuce. You're feeding a green leafy lettuce and not iceburg, right?

You know, if he's pooping it really makes me think that his problem with not eating, might not be a blockage issue. Did the vet check his teeth at all?

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

He isnt grinding his teeth but he is making this very fast clicking noise not sure how but he's done this many times before so not sure if its an indication that he's in pain.

He does lay with his rear in the litter box and his head out so that the side of the litter box is pressed up into his middle region.

Member the vet did do an xray that showed a dark area that she says is a hairball which I wouldnt doubt he does shed like crazy and he's constantly cleaning himself so I bet he has consumed a lot of his fur.

What was that product you said I can give him for gas? Might as well give it a try yea?
I havent tried putting a dish of water in his cage yet but thats because he doesnt seem to be interested in eating or drinking unless Im forcing it in his mouth.
Im guessing this is because he doesnt feel good so he doesnt want to eat or drink.

Im going to now say he has about 30-40 smaller than normal poop pebbles but no signs of ANY hair, none at all. Is it possible this hairball wont break apart and pass?

Oh and she checked his teeth and said they looked just fine. Im not sure what good teeth look like but it doesnt seem like they are bothering him.

So yea just let me know that gas stuff I can pick up for him and Ill try that with his Oxbow and water.

Thank you for all your help. I looked up the laxative stuff and it said exactly what you said and to not give them to a rabbit with gut issues and possible GI stasis.
My vet was very nice and helpful but it sounds like she really just knows what she reads on the internet and not too much rabbit experience.

 

[JBun]

As long as he's pooping at all, that's a good thing. That means his digestion is still moving, even if it is slowly. The water and the food will help break up the blockage. Make sure he's getting fed every 3-4 hours, that's really important. I would still offer him a water dish. Rabbits can drink more easily from them then they can from a water bottle. And it's so important for him to stay hydrated.

It does sound like he may be experiencing some pain. You might be ok just giving him the pain med the vet gave you, since you'll only be doing it for a couple of days, but I would still call them on Mon. about getting the metacam. The other med. is called simethicone. It's an infant gas relief med given as a syrup. You just get it OTC at any pharmacy. You should definitely get some and give it a try right away. If he does have gas, it will help him feel a lot better, and he may start eating on his own.

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

Do you think I should start seeing hair coming out in the next day or two? And if not my major concern is what if he isnt passing the hairball? Surgery?

Ill go get that gas stuff. I can view this thread on my phone so Ill look it up again when I get to walmart.
Should I get it in syrup form? I thought I wanted to stay away from syrup type stuff?

 

[JBun]

Unfortunately the simethicone is sweetened so kids will think it tastes good. So there's really no other choice, but I just figure that it does more good for the rabbit, and it really is necessary if they have gas. It can take an hour or two to be able to tell if it's helping, so you may not see a difference til after the second dose.

Any hair that is injested will eventually come out as long as he's pooping. You said he's still pooing a little, so as long as he doesn't stop pooping, the hair will come out. A hairball really isn't what's going on in there, though hair is involved. The hair and not enough fiber to keep it passing, creates a gut slowdown, which in turn can create an impaction that gets dried out and gets stuck. Then you start getting a build up of bad bacteria and that starts creating gas. So that's why you don't use a laxative. The laxative coats that dried impaction and prevents it from receiving moisture that will help break up the impaction. So that's why you feed the critical care, green veggies, and lots of water. They all help add moisture to the gut, which then helps rehydrate the dried impaction, which then helps break it up. So that's kind of how it works.

Did the vet give you a probiotic? You really have to have a probiotic if you are giving baytril.

 

[Lifted07Duramax]

No probiotic from vet. What can I pick up at Walmart? Or I mean what's the name or brand