tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Meclizine. Sounds like mescaline, very different. 
I hope the chloramphenicol does the trick.
I hope the chloramphenicol does the trick.
Ned has another ear infection!
- Thread starter SnowyShiloh
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SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Meclizine, that's it! Thanks! Who knows, maybe the psychedelic drug WOULD help our wee Neddo feel better (or at least escape the pain for a while), but stick in the mud mama says "no" to bunnies on drugs.
BunnyLova4Eva, Ned is a man of many nicknames!
BunnyLova4Eva, Ned is a man of many nicknames!
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
The Nedmeister has been on the new meds since Tuesday and he isn't showing any signs of improvement yet. The vet said if the meclizine was going to work, it would be within a day or so. Monday he has another vet appointment and that will make 4 weeks since he got sick. I have the feeling my sweet Neddie is going to be permanently tilted He was already the world's clumsiest bunny BEFORE he ever had an ear infection, this certainly will not help matters! As it is, he's really barely tilted at all but his balance is absolutely atrocious and he walks in circles some of the time and rolls if he gets too worked up.
How do we know when to stop meds if he is going to be permanently tilted?
He was already the world's clumsiest bunny BEFORE he ever had an ear infection, this certainly will not help matters! As it is, he's really barely tilted at all but his balance is absolutely atrocious and he walks in circles some of the time and rolls if he gets too worked up.How do we know when to stop meds if he is going to be permanently tilted?
Bunnylova4eva
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how to know about stopping the meds besides talking to the vet.
Has his appetite gotten at all better since the meds?
Has his appetite gotten at all better since the meds?
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I would say if there is no improvement in 5-7 days you might think about stopping them. However just an improvement in appetite would be worth it, I think, since he was having trouble eating, right?
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Update time! Sorry it's been a couple of weeks, nothing has changed though. No improvement so far in his condition or appetite or anything. He's lost half a pound since he got sick, which is a lot for a little bunny Absolutely will not accept Critical Care even though I've tried 2 flavors. Good thing is he WILL eat some hay and some veggies (just as he was when I last updated), but barely touches pellets. He gets most of his water from veggies. Wonder how long we'll just continue going on like this? He moves around and stuff but is definitely not as animated as normal and so far does not seem to be adjusting to a life of being tilted. Funny thing is that about a third of the time he doesn't even LOOK tilted, but his balance is utterly atrocious and when he gets excited, he runs around in circles. How heartbreaking is this- he still gets excited when I'm doling out pellets, even though he doesn't eat them! Guess he's just used to it being an exciting time.
Absolutely will not accept Critical Care even though I've tried 2 flavors. Good thing is he WILL eat some hay and some veggies (just as he was when I last updated), but barely touches pellets. He gets most of his water from veggies. Wonder how long we'll just continue going on like this? He moves around and stuff but is definitely not as animated as normal and so far does not seem to be adjusting to a life of being tilted. Funny thing is that about a third of the time he doesn't even LOOK tilted, but his balance is utterly atrocious and when he gets excited, he runs around in circles. How heartbreaking is this- he still gets excited when I'm doling out pellets, even though he doesn't eat them! Guess he's just used to it being an exciting time.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Oh dear. I was hoping no news was good news. Any thought as to doing a culture and sensitivity on this hard to kick bug? It's possible that it's no longer an inner ear infection exclusively so some pus might be accessible by the vet via ear swab. However now it may be permanent damage. I have heard of bunnies improving after more than a month of tiltedness, however, so it's hard to say. Maybe a second opinion or specialist is in order?
Bunnylova4eva
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to haer no really good news. The fact that you're saying he gets so excited about pellets but won't eat them makes me wonder if there could be anything going on in his mouth as well. Have they ever seen anything questionable or small spurs or anything like that? I know he'd have a poor appetite anyway from being dizzy and all of the things he's been through.
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Tonyshuman, as of his most recent vet visit, his ears are clear of any discharge. They look completely healthy. The vet said they could do a surgery that involves drilling into his tympanic bulla to get a sample of what's causing the infection, but they'd have to bring a surgeon in from Anchorage and the estimated cost of the surgery is a minimum of $2,000. We just can't do that. If it would actually take care of this problem once and for all and he'd get better and never have an ear infection again, I would find a way to do it, but not when all it would accomplish is find out exactly what is growing inside his ears
Bunnylova4eva, the vet looked at this teeth in person as well as on multiple x-rays and said they look just fine. Not sure why he's so turned off when it comes to pellets, he's more willing to eat veggies so gets 2 big salads every day and of course unlimited hay but it doesn't seem to be helping with the weight. Today's salads are a blend of about 5 lettuces with a wee bit of carrot tossed in, broccoli, and cucumber. He doesn't get excited at pellet time anymore Poor guy.
Bunnylova4eva, the vet looked at this teeth in person as well as on multiple x-rays and said they look just fine. Not sure why he's so turned off when it comes to pellets, he's more willing to eat veggies so gets 2 big salads every day and of course unlimited hay but it doesn't seem to be helping with the weight. Today's salads are a blend of about 5 lettuces with a wee bit of carrot tossed in, broccoli, and cucumber. He doesn't get excited at pellet time anymore
Poor guy.
Ilovemyrabbit
Elise - Introductions & Blogs Moderator
I'm not good at bunny problems I just wanted to say I'm so sorry about Ned I'll be praying for you and him. ray:
ray:
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
That sounds pretty intense and definitely expensive for something that won't necessarily get things taken care of. I know what you mean: money is not as much of an issue if they can tell me what they want to do will work, or at least has a high chance of working. The stress of going through the procedure is also something to consider for Ned. I guess you may want to just go through the antibiotics he's been on and see if there are any other options. At this point the damage is likely to be permanent unfortunately, so beyond the meclizine there's not a ton you can do, at least to my knowledge. I hope he is still happy, as we've seen many bunnies live great lives even with serious tilt. If you haven't yet, I'd suggest contacting JadeIcing. She's really busy now and doesn't come on here much, but can be gotten in touch with via facebook.
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Claire, I am Facebook friends with Ali and talk to her pretty frequently
Happy to say I have a GOOD update! We've taken Ned off all meds and his condition has remained the same. That might not sound like such good news, but he hasn't gotten any tiltier/worse balance, so we think the infection has been killed but the tilt and balance issues are permanent. While it would be nice if he didn't have any tilt, I'll take what I can get (as in, his life!). The GREAT thing though is that his appetite is returning and he has been putting on weight! I am feeding him unlimited pellets and he's eating a normal amount again. PHEW. He's still underweight for sure but not as painfully, heartbreakingly scrawny as he was. Let's hope his appetite continues to increase and he plumps up again!!
Hopefully we are done with this. Hopefully NO MORE ear infections and he will adjust well to his disability. His balance is pretty bad. He runs in circles when he gets excited and weaves his head around when he moves or looks about, best I can describe it is he looks like a snake being charmed by a snake charmer! He rolls pretty easily, too, especially when I put him down and it's really hard to hold onto him when he's in my arms, I have to hold him tight. The actual tilt/head turn (since he has a combination of both those) is certainly noticeable but not severe.
I really do not look forward to facing this again. He's at least 5 years old and I'm certain this bout nearly killed him. The first time around was far from pleasant, either. We try to keep his life as stress free and clean as possible to avoid setting him off. We're afraid if he gets sick again with an ear infection, it will finish him off Next time though I will insist on chloramphenicol from the beginning and not even touch the Azithromycin since it completely kills his appetite.
Let's hope I'm write and he really is getting better, he's been sick for a solid 9 weeks, poor guy. He is my little fighter though!
Happy to say I have a GOOD update! We've taken Ned off all meds and his condition has remained the same. That might not sound like such good news, but he hasn't gotten any tiltier/worse balance, so we think the infection has been killed but the tilt and balance issues are permanent. While it would be nice if he didn't have any tilt, I'll take what I can get (as in, his life!). The GREAT thing though is that his appetite is returning and he has been putting on weight! I am feeding him unlimited pellets and he's eating a normal amount again. PHEW. He's still underweight for sure but not as painfully, heartbreakingly scrawny as he was. Let's hope his appetite continues to increase and he plumps up again!!
Hopefully we are done with this. Hopefully NO MORE ear infections and he will adjust well to his disability. His balance is pretty bad. He runs in circles when he gets excited and weaves his head around when he moves or looks about, best I can describe it is he looks like a snake being charmed by a snake charmer! He rolls pretty easily, too, especially when I put him down and it's really hard to hold onto him when he's in my arms, I have to hold him tight. The actual tilt/head turn (since he has a combination of both those) is certainly noticeable but not severe.
I really do not look forward to facing this again. He's at least 5 years old and I'm certain this bout nearly killed him. The first time around was far from pleasant, either. We try to keep his life as stress free and clean as possible to avoid setting him off. We're afraid if he gets sick again with an ear infection, it will finish him off
Next time though I will insist on chloramphenicol from the beginning and not even touch the Azithromycin since it completely kills his appetite. Let's hope I'm write and he really is getting better, he's been sick for a solid 9 weeks, poor guy. He is my little fighter though!
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I'm glad he's doing better, and I agree with what you say about the antibiotics in case this happens again. Maybe keeping him a little plumper as he gets a bit older is a good idea. I have been trying to get my older buns' weights up a bit because they can lose so much in such a short period of time. Is Ned your little guy with one ear? If so, he's been a fighter all his life!
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Claire, yes, he's my one eared boy!! We love him a ton. He's such a special guy. I do try to keep him and Rory on the plump side just in case, but he lost weight anyway He was actually a bit too plump about a month before he got sick again so I cut back his pellets a smidgen, wish I hadn't done that now!
He was actually a bit too plump about a month before he got sick again so I cut back his pellets a smidgen, wish I hadn't done that now!
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Our sweet Nedder is gaining weight every day! He's almost back to his normal weight, wow! It's amazing how quickly they can gain and lose weight, isn't it? I am SOOOOO RELIEVED. Sorry about the all caps, I'm just really glad. He's not out of the woods yet of course, but he's making excellent progress. For a while there I was preparing myself for his death and I'm really happy he's getting better instead! Go, Neddie, go!
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Woohoo for gaining weight!
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
Neddie is continuing to gain!
I'm looking for opinions... hopefully confirmation from others that this is the right decision. Paul and I have decided to have Ned put to sleep if/when he comes down with another ear infection The first time he had one, at the age of about 3, it took a full YEAR for all symptoms to leave him. An entire year for his appetite to go back to normal (long term), his weight to regulate, and just for him to act normal again. Now he's at least 5 years old and this bout nearly killed him because the medicine competely doused his appetite. In all honesty, I believe he's alive right now because I chose to stop treating him. The treatment was literally killing him and the vet agreed there was nothing else to do. Happily, it turned out to be the right decision. He started getting his appetite back a couple of weeks after the meds stopped and is doing SO much better, though he still has issues with a permanently tilted head and dizziness. Being sick has definitely weakened him and he's only getting older.
After talking about it a lot, we decided it would be best to simply have him euthanized if he gets sick again because I don't see how he can survive this ordeal a third time We both love him and don't want to see him suffer. It's certainly not an issue of not wanting to care for him or not wanting to spend the money, we just don't want him to suffer needlessly if the probable outcome will be death anyway. I know people say to wait until the animal has given up, and I agree that it sounds nice, but seeing Ned when he's in the throes of head tilt is terrible. He's really scared and feels sick and can't stand up or move properly, and the medicine makes him not want to eat or drink. It's so bad that I'd rather just get it over with quickly So if he gets sick again, we'll rush him to the vet and have him examined, and if he presents the same way- nystagmus, extreme balance issues, NO visible sign of ear infection/pus in the ears (which means it can't be cultured, we would treat him if we could find a specific medication that would work on the bacteria without making him as sick as these other antibiotics have)- we will ask the vet to put him down
Very hard to talk about. I love my Nedderbug Let's hope he stays healthy for as long as possible.
I'm looking for opinions... hopefully confirmation from others that this is the right decision. Paul and I have decided to have Ned put to sleep if/when he comes down with another ear infection
The first time he had one, at the age of about 3, it took a full YEAR for all symptoms to leave him. An entire year for his appetite to go back to normal (long term), his weight to regulate, and just for him to act normal again. Now he's at least 5 years old and this bout nearly killed him because the medicine competely doused his appetite. In all honesty, I believe he's alive right now because I chose to stop treating him. The treatment was literally killing him and the vet agreed there was nothing else to do. Happily, it turned out to be the right decision. He started getting his appetite back a couple of weeks after the meds stopped and is doing SO much better, though he still has issues with a permanently tilted head and dizziness. Being sick has definitely weakened him and he's only getting older. After talking about it a lot, we decided it would be best to simply have him euthanized if he gets sick again because I don't see how he can survive this ordeal a third time
We both love him and don't want to see him suffer. It's certainly not an issue of not wanting to care for him or not wanting to spend the money, we just don't want him to suffer needlessly if the probable outcome will be death anyway. I know people say to wait until the animal has given up, and I agree that it sounds nice, but seeing Ned when he's in the throes of head tilt is terrible. He's really scared and feels sick and can't stand up or move properly, and the medicine makes him not want to eat or drink. It's so bad that I'd rather just get it over with quickly So if he gets sick again, we'll rush him to the vet and have him examined, and if he presents the same way- nystagmus, extreme balance issues, NO visible sign of ear infection/pus in the ears (which means it can't be cultured, we would treat him if we could find a specific medication that would work on the bacteria without making him as sick as these other antibiotics have)- we will ask the vet to put him down Very hard to talk about. I love my Nedderbug
Let's hope he stays healthy for as long as possible.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
It is hard to talk about and it must be very hard to see him doing so poorly. It is a decision that you have to make with all of the conditions known, so it's good to think about now, but I'd restrain from making a decision until/if he gets sick again. It is definitely true that bunnies often don't do well with the handling required to treat them, and Ned seems to be really sensitive. If he gets sick again, I would talk with the vet about other treatments that aren't as difficult on him, and if any exist, you can use those. However you now know what degree of handling he cannot tolerate, and you can take that into mind when you make future decisions about his care. I know you only want the best for him and sometimes not treating is the best course.
We didn't treat Benjamin for thymoma for the same reasons--the treatment would be too stressful and injurious to him, and it wasn't very clear whether it would work or not. In the years since, treatment for thymoma has improved to the point that I might consider doing it for my buns, at least anybody but Frida who has never quite gotten over her days as a feral bunny. It is possible in the next few years that less stressful and/or more successful treatments will become available for ear infections as well.
{{hugs}}
We didn't treat Benjamin for thymoma for the same reasons--the treatment would be too stressful and injurious to him, and it wasn't very clear whether it would work or not. In the years since, treatment for thymoma has improved to the point that I might consider doing it for my buns, at least anybody but Frida who has never quite gotten over her days as a feral bunny. It is possible in the next few years that less stressful and/or more successful treatments will become available for ear infections as well.
{{hugs}}
SnowyShiloh
Well-Known Member
My poor Neddie. I think he is going downhill again His balance is decidedly worse than normal today and starting last night he's been doing more back and forth head scanning than usual. As of right now, he doesn't have full blown nystagmus, but it's getting closer to that with each passing hour.
I called the vet to see about making him an appointment tomorrow and had to give the phone to my husband when I started crying. Ned's awesome vet is unfortunately in Canada until September AND they don't have any available appointments for tomorrow. This means he's going to have to be a walk-in crammed between other appointments- not stressful for him AT ALL I will insist on waiting until we can be seen by the other rabbit savvy vet, who will be there tomorrow. I want Ned to get a full examination and whatever testing/ x-rays done before we decide to proceed with euthanasia or not.
Ned and I are both wrecks. I really wish I'd taken him outside to play in the yard this summer. All the other bunnies have been out many times, but I wanted to make sure he was completely better from his ear infection before bringing him out because it would probably be stressful even though I know he would love it. Now I fear his life is almost over and his balance is so bad today that he probably would not enjoy going outside one last time This might seem like a dumb thing to be upset about, but it is what it is. When Tallulah died, I was really upset too that she never got to go outside... At least Ned has been outside many times in years past, right?
His balance is decidedly worse than normal today and starting last night he's been doing more back and forth head scanning than usual. As of right now, he doesn't have full blown nystagmus, but it's getting closer to that with each passing hour.I called the vet to see about making him an appointment tomorrow and had to give the phone to my husband when I started crying. Ned's awesome vet is unfortunately in Canada until September AND they don't have any available appointments for tomorrow. This means he's going to have to be a walk-in crammed between other appointments- not stressful for him AT ALL
I will insist on waiting until we can be seen by the other rabbit savvy vet, who will be there tomorrow. I want Ned to get a full examination and whatever testing/ x-rays done before we decide to proceed with euthanasia or not.Ned and I are both wrecks. I really wish I'd taken him outside to play in the yard this summer. All the other bunnies have been out many times, but I wanted to make sure he was completely better from his ear infection before bringing him out because it would probably be stressful even though I know he would love it. Now I fear his life is almost over and his balance is so bad today that he probably would not enjoy going outside one last time
This might seem like a dumb thing to be upset about, but it is what it is. When Tallulah died, I was really upset too that she never got to go outside... At least Ned has been outside many times in years past, right? :hug2:You have taken excellent care of Ned and he has been outside a lot during his life and he has had a very wonderful life with you. I guess the more we love something the more we think of all the small things that we could of, or still want to do.
This is a really hard time for you so be gentle with yourself. If Ned could talk he would tell you what a great life he has had . ((((Hugs))) :tears2: I am so sorry!!!
This is a really hard time for you so be gentle with yourself. If Ned could talk he would tell you what a great life he has had . ((((Hugs))) :tears2: I am so sorry!!!
