My future breedings, "no holes" clarification, etc...

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wendymac

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First of all, I posted my comments in the Rabbitry & Show Room section. Which is for breeders to discuss, well, breeding and showing (along with "what color", "what breed" threads). Is this correct, or is the discussion of breeding taboo?

For those that may not be aware, a rabbit has a time frame in which they can safely have their first litter, which (for my breeds) is around the 10 month mark. Whether a doe is only EVER going to have one litter, or she may be a brood doe, they have to be bred before a year old. So when you keep 3 does from your litter, and they get to that "breed now or never stage", they have to be bred. Breeders breed to improve their stock. You can't improve what you have without breeding.

Now, for those concerned because I'm going to breed 7 does from now until the end of the year, take a deep breath. I currently have a waiting list of people that want French Lops. Heck, Rosa sold without me even advertising her, and she'll leave when her babies are weaned. I'm not going to dump all those rabbits at shelters.

When I said I had no open holes, that's what I meant. But, like every time I've had a litter born, I had no holes. My solution? Buy more cages. Again, there's no way to improve your animals if you sell them off right at the 8 week mark. I want to hang on to every single one that appears to be what I need. And that means more cages. It doesn't mean dropping them off at a shelter.

Right now we have 20 Californian babies, all around 5 weeks old. 6 of those will be for my daughter's 4-H meat pen project. They will then be put up on the auction block at the livestock sale. However, because we're picking the 6 BEST babies, we'll be buying them back (paying just the commission to the fair board). The rest of those babies will be offered for sale...first as show and brood stock (they have some of the best bloodlines on the East Coast), then pets. Again, they will not be dumped at a local rescue.

I hope this clarifies things a bit. I also hope that pet owners realize that breeders don't breed just to sell babies (it would take quite a few years to recoup just a fraction of the $5k I've sunk into this hobby, from October until now!). And that good breeders don't take their culls to the local animal shelter.

We are allowed to talk about breeding in this part of the forum, aren't we??
 
Wendy, I'm sorry that my question upset you. I was trying to keep things private and not start a fight. I get curious about things and I honestly wanted to know. Just because I am in rescue doesn't mean I don't get curious about the breeding side. I have learned a lot from the breeders here and love the baby pictures. I like to learn about how other people do things and the choices they make. I guess I'm just termanally curious.
 
Brandy, this wasn't aimed at you! I had a "nasty gram" from another forum member, so thought I'd clear the air. I don't mind questions, but name calling and accusations are another story. So I figured I'd post this, so everyone knew my intentions with my rabbits and my breeding program.

I did read the forum sticky on the purpose of this forum. If you're against breeding, then you're not supposed to post on here. And I think that probably means not sending inappropriate PMs to those of us that do. :)
 
I agree, Wendy. I'm concerned about some of the critical remarks being made by other forum members about breeders. One thread in Housing & Environment, fromSunday night, comes to mind. I don't know ifthese attacks are directed at allbreeders or to those who sell their rabbits as pets. We've beenshowing and breeding show rabbits for about 4 years now. We don't often have "pet" rabbits that we need to place. We used to enjoy coming here and interacting with other breeders and helping pet owners with any problems they might have. But the attacks and remarks about breeders in other threads, and even in the rabbitry, have made me feel somewhat unwelcome. I guess noone has noticed that there are very few breeders who regularly participate in this forum anymore?
 
Wow. . . I am appalled and I will stand right with you Wendy.

We have two breeds currently. 20 cages outside and three inside. We are a VERY SMALL rabbitry compared to almost every other member in the American Rabbit Breeders Association. Some people say they are a small rabbitry with 50 holes/cages. I only WISH that I could have that much room for our buns. I would bring in TONS of ribbons and trophies if I could keep all of the good rabbits I produce. Breeders on the smaller scale learn to appreciate quality instead of quantity and we are actually applauded for it by bigger barns. All but two of our cages are full. We have five mommas with litters ranging from 1-5 babies. And two does that will be having their babies in about two weeks. We have some buns that will be sold to more show people in a little bit and most of those babies are for the 2012 ARBA Convention in Kansas. Where most will be sold to benefit show enthusiasts and their herd. I have never taken any of my rabbits that had to be sold to a shelter.

Because of our space limitations we have to be very critical in what we keep and what we sell. But that also means that we are critical on who we breed and hope to produce nothing but a potential best of breed rabbit.

You cannot get anywhere keeping a rabbit for only 8weeks in either of our breeds so we keep our babies longer and don't sell until we feel comfortable in the quality of rabbits we have chosen to keep. This means most of our babies stay with mom until the 2-3month mark because we are full on space. Even being kept together that long we have never had an accidental breeding of incest unless it was planned (only mother to son or daughter to father).

I do not know what was said in the personal message but I seriously hope whoever sent it comes and reads this thread. If you would like you can also PM me and I can have plenty of discussions with you and would love to go back and forth on any concerns you may have. I think Breeders on the smaller scale are one of the best and much rather buying from them because you know they are concerned with quality and not just to make money. We make sure that we have enough room for the rabbits we produce and I already have 4-5 people on my waiting list for buns that haven't even been born. Don't make assumptions and please feel free to PM me :)
 
Exactly! There used to be a lot of breeders that were regular participants. Now there seems to just be a couple of us left. :(

I just don't understand why people come into a BREEDER thread, and then bash the breeder. Nobody is forcing anyone to read anything. And nobody is forcing anyone to post something. And without the breeders and show people, who's going to be left to help people with the "Critique my bunny, please" threads and "what breed is my bunny". And most pet people really don't know what colors are what for each breed (and this includes me!). There's a lot of information that is being lost because of a few. :(

*jumps down off soapbox now*
 
Yep! We have 20 cages outside and 1 inside. Plus we're building 2 large grow-out pens. While I don't keep the babies with their moms that long, I do keep the litters together as long as possible. And when I decide which rabbits (if any) are going to make the cut, I buy more cages. Right now I'm not sure that any of Adeline's will make it. I like Smokie and the one opal doe, but time will tell with those. Rose's are still too little, but I'll probably only keep 1 or 2 of them (if any). It would help if my breeds didn't produce 10 at a time, though! LOL

Right now I'm debating on what to do with LaRew. She's at the 4 month mark (which was my original keep/cull age). Do I keep her to breed, and hope the buck puts a better hindquarter on the babies? Or go ahead and sell her?

As long as the rabbits are well cared for, and they are sold/traded and not dumped off in local shelters, why is it anyone else's business if we breed or not?

I'm responsible for every rabbit I bring into this world. Whether it's to be kept, sold, traded, or given away (or another choice, that I won't mention here), you can be assured that they won't be populating the local shelters. :)

No breeder takes breeding lightly. There are a LOT of factors that are planned and thought out long before two rabbits are bred. And that's not factoring in when to breed so it doesn't interfere with the shows (running into that now. LOL).

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty certain that none of the breeders I know personally ever say, "Hey, let's breed these two mixes of unknown heritage together and then dump the babies off as pets or in shelters."
 
To clarify...
All discussion pertaining to breeding and care is welcome.

As per the forum decorum, the only stipulation is that we draw the line at fatal cull conversations in other parts of the RO forum. We discuss that delicate topic only here within the Rabbitry & Show Room.

Novice breeders ought to be encouraged by ALL rabbit lovers to breeder for the betterment of the breed, and to breed responsibly. There are some top-notch breeders here on RO, who do an AWESOME job with their rabbits.

It is the breeders ESPECIALLY, who step up to the plate when someone naively puts their 2 buns together and "oops". It is the breeders that provide the necessary knowledge and care tips, and the encouragement to people to breed responsibly.

(Remember folks, all those neat little Dutches, lionheads, Flemish, blue Beveran, funny little mini rex, are the handiwork of dedicated responsible breeders - thank them for all of our wonderful breeds!:) )

********
Wendy, I am sorry that someone took the time to write you a nasty message. It is clear that they don't have an understanding of what it is to be a responsible rabbit lover and breeder (which you exemplify).


If any breeder receives inappropriate messages, please contact a moderator. There is no room for antagonism here on RO.
 
Thanks, Autumn. I wasn't going to say anything, but didn't want anyone else getting the wrong idea. :)

When I use the word "cull", that just means "not keep"...not as in "no more bunny". I think I'm the only household with 3 men and all more squeamish than me. LOL

:what *gasp* You didn't mention French Lops in there! :sosad
 
My bad, I was mentally thinking about fatal cull. I should have been more specific.
Fatal cull is the only topic restricted to rabbitry.

I find that folks not familiar with breeding practices often assume the term cull means fatal - different audience, eh?

Thank you for the clarification!
:)
 
LOL or tans!! Thank you Autumn for your kind words. :) I hope the breeder numbers turn around and more come back
 
Y'all are certainly doing a great job of holding the fort here these days :) Thank you very much for taking the time to share your knowledge.

I hope we see some more responsible breeders join... it is really such a great model for the inexperienced to be able to get input from the "pros"!
 
I am so sad that someone attacked you like that. I think you are doing an amazing job with your flops. I am a small rabbitry here too. I am trying to breed for the best that I can. I started with a few and if they produce better than themselves some of them will sadly be going to a wooler home. I plan on showing my rabbits and making a name for myself so that someone wants to buy my rabbits. I hate that some people here don't understand. I know this is a mostly pet forum and that has almost made me shy away but the few breeders that are still here make me want to stay.
 
Thanks, Lyndsey. I'm just starting out too, and have a pretty thick skin. I just posted this before I got bashed by anyone else. LOL And don't abandon ship...there is safety in numbers. hehe

I'm used to using cull as just meaning "to remove". I come from a long line of horse folks, and that's how we use it.
 
I hope you stay Lindsey! Dont be shy we must stand up for ourselves!

Just be glad you dont have to compete with Betty Chu in California :p LOL Im sure you will make gorgeous angoras!
 
lol no betty chu rabbits here but there are some gorgeous rabbits. I'm sure if I would let my rabbit's wool grow out to be 12 inches they would look just like hers! Her rabbits are bred to not molt their wool thats why their wool is so long. They are gorgeous rabbits but i'm not ready to pay $500 for one junior. lol
 
That right there is a majority of the reason I stopped posting things like baby pictures or any doings in my rabbitry. I lurk around the site but keep quiet. I'm a smaller breeder with 40 holes, dedicated to mainly dutch, with 6 to New Zealands and 4 holland lops. I just try to avoid comfrontation. So I know at least a few of us other breeders haven't left completely, but we just don't post much at all anymore.
 
Well thats crap! I'm sorry some one attacked you (sticks tongue at whoever that was).

I havent been here long, but from the little time I have been here I have been trying to keep up with your breeding program, it facinates me! From all that i've read you're very responsible and I would never think you would dump your buns at a shelter!
I want to start reading blogs, but everytime I go to that section I get a little overwhelmed, dont know where to start! LOL!

I am not a breeder, and never plan on being one unless I get a farm like i've always dreamed of. Probably never going to happen lol. If it wasnt for this site I would be LOST as to what to do with the accidental litter I had. I cant stress how much you and other breeders (and pet owners) on this site have helped me.

So... THANK YOU for being such an awesome breeder and so willing to help us know-nothing-about-kits- people LOL!

:)
 
How do you breed an angora so it won't molt?? And I don't blame you...there's no way I'd pay even half of that for a junior. Yikes!!

Maria, I'm just as lost as you are with the blogs! Heck, half the time I forget to even post in mine. hahaha

I know one thing, I'm glad I asked a thousand questions before most of the breeders left.

And I found the PM a bit funny, because I don't want to breed Max or Trisha until shows are done. You can't show them when they're pregnant. :( The other junior does I wanted to show at the PaSRBA Convention in February, and the Farm Show in January.

And when I was told that there are thousands of bunnies in shelters that needed rescued, that I should rescue instead of breeding, I was thinking, "Yeah, and I'll just enter them into ARBA'S 'unknown breed' class." lol

To each their own.
 
LMAO about unknown breed class!!! Oh how people amaze me and think we just breed to breed. Our rabbits arent gorgeous and bring in trophies/ribbons for no reason. There is so much to the show world that people don't even know about. Thats why I'm super excited to see the Bunny Fever movie showing at the Kansas Convention! If only it would come out in theaters!

Oh and PS :) You can show preggo rabbits up to the 14th day of their pregnancy and still be safe. Alot of breeders say it is a retired moms prime time to show.

Heather I have learned a thing or two from you and I hope you continue to be on this forum! :)I also loved seeing your adorable and interesting dutch babies. If only I could know on day one the quality of that baby and if it should be for pet or show. *ponders*
 

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