fourleggedfrog
Member
when you have 125 rabbits, 37 Guinea pigs, 19 rats/mice, 10 gerbils, 1 sugar glider, 11 hamsters like was stated on August 16, 2012 - then maybe you would worry
LMRR DOH inspection #1 results
- Thread starter hereinjersey
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MiniLopHop
Well-Known Member
I also have hay in my litter boxes. I'm guessing MANY here do!
I have been in several animal rescues that would get this same report or something similar. It doesn't mean the animals are not being cared for, it means rescues need more resources.
I have been on the other side of a government inspection at work. They can take the smallest infraction and blow it up HUGE sounding on paper. How many of these findings are subjective? (not enough or too much, by who's judgement?)
I have been going through the process of bonding my 6 rabbits. At first they had a poop war. Yes I cleaned it daily, but 5 minutes after I cleaned it still looked like a poop bomb went off. Does that mean my rabbits were neglected? I don't think so.
Note there's never a long-term member, or even one who has been here active for 6 months, that posts this kind of crap.
I have been in several animal rescues that would get this same report or something similar. It doesn't mean the animals are not being cared for, it means rescues need more resources.
I have been on the other side of a government inspection at work. They can take the smallest infraction and blow it up HUGE sounding on paper. How many of these findings are subjective? (not enough or too much, by who's judgement?)
I have been going through the process of bonding my 6 rabbits. At first they had a poop war. Yes I cleaned it daily, but 5 minutes after I cleaned it still looked like a poop bomb went off. Does that mean my rabbits were neglected? I don't think so.
Note there's never a long-term member, or even one who has been here active for 6 months, that posts this kind of crap.
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
fourleggedfrog wrote:
I say be supportive and HELP them instead of doing your best to take them down. Please post YOUR address so we can deliver these animals to your door.
Just quit now and go away.
I say be supportive and HELP them instead of doing your best to take them down. Please post YOUR address so we can deliver these animals to your door.
Just quit now and go away.
MiniLopHop
Well-Known Member
They are constantly adopting out animals and taking in others. They are not the same individuals there forever (which would be the case in your rediculous hoarder argument). It is a sad commentary about how animals are disposible in our society, but LMRR opens their arms to all in need. That qualifies them as heros to me!
Go throw mud elsewhere. :tantrum:
Go throw mud elsewhere. :tantrum:
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
LOL, I am with internal audit with one of the top 10 largest banks in the US.....just trying to deal with the OCC.
bunnylady2
Well-Known Member
then where is the place for it if not here? Just asking...why would they lie? just sayin
bunnylady2
Well-Known Member
then where is the place for it if not here? Just asking...why would they lie? just sayin
fourleggedfrog
Member
I don't believe I ever said anything about hoarding on this thread. If you cannot follow the guideline set out by the Dept. of Health, that you come up with all sorts of stories that they want you to turn your place into a "dog kennel" there is a time to provide the proof, the written proof of what actually went down. Oh and Ms Slave to a bunny why don't you just write them another check - pay their rent like you did in June, and the phone bill - obviously she didn't get your money to pay the gas bill.
hereinjersey
Member
sas's comments in red...
Just read the reports. I guess the DOH is lying now? I don't get you people.
1. no hot water b/c gas is turned off. This is after raising THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
- you complain when they wrack up the gas bill and then you complain when they're being frugal. rabbits don't need hot water.
2. NO MENTION of the wire grates that the owner says DOH is insisting upon.
- wire grates are the only method of keeping feces from being visible around the forage material, eg hay.
3. Setting bunnies LEGS with splints, and NO VET VISIT ON RECORD FOR 1 MONTH AFTERWARDS.
- experienced caregivers are well equipped to treat rabbits with splints, antibiotics and pain meds on a simple break with vet advice, there is nothing a vet would do differently.
4. Water bottles DRY.
- yes, rabbits drink the water, sometimes bottles leak, and rescues always need more volunteers to help with these things, or enough funds to hire somebody, please volunteer or donate.
5. Taking in wildlife without the proper permits.
- so no rescues or shelters should accept or stop to help sick wildlife because they're not official rehabbers and don't have the proper permit? so leave them to suffer? this is far worse than self-treating a broken leg, don't you think?
6. Building without the proper permits.
- this is rabbit abuse?
7. Putting buns in cages so dark they needed flashlights to see them.
- rabbits live in underground burrows and are very comfortable in small dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.
8. COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF URINE AND EXCREMENT.
- rabbits are continuously defecating and urinating. they forage, poop and pee. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox, especially when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided in the litter boxes. this is something few officials understand. they are not dogs or cats.
READ THE REPORTS.
Just read the reports. I guess the DOH is lying now? I don't get you people.
1. no hot water b/c gas is turned off. This is after raising THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.
- you complain when they wrack up the gas bill and then you complain when they're being frugal. rabbits don't need hot water.
2. NO MENTION of the wire grates that the owner says DOH is insisting upon.
- wire grates are the only method of keeping feces from being visible around the forage material, eg hay.
3. Setting bunnies LEGS with splints, and NO VET VISIT ON RECORD FOR 1 MONTH AFTERWARDS.
- experienced caregivers are well equipped to treat rabbits with splints, antibiotics and pain meds on a simple break with vet advice, there is nothing a vet would do differently.
4. Water bottles DRY.
- yes, rabbits drink the water, sometimes bottles leak, and rescues always need more volunteers to help with these things, or enough funds to hire somebody, please volunteer or donate.
5. Taking in wildlife without the proper permits.
- so no rescues or shelters should accept or stop to help sick wildlife because they're not official rehabbers and don't have the proper permit? so leave them to suffer? this is far worse than self-treating a broken leg, don't you think?
6. Building without the proper permits.
- this is rabbit abuse?
7. Putting buns in cages so dark they needed flashlights to see them.
- rabbits live in underground burrows and are very comfortable in small dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.
8. COPIOUS AMOUNTS OF URINE AND EXCREMENT.
- rabbits are continuously defecating and urinating. they forage, poop and pee. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox, especially when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided in the litter boxes. this is something few officials understand. they are not dogs or cats.
READ THE REPORTS.
hereinjersey
Member
1.7 (a) Hay used as food for the rabbits that is placed inside litter receptacles is not discarded and replaced on a daily basis as required. Upon arrival, inspectors noted that rabbits had no pellet type food in their enclosures. Almost all the rabbits were jumping on their enclosure doors excitedly awaiting their food rations. During the previous inspection, inspectors were told that pellet type food is only given every other day. Rabbits must be fed at least once each day. Food from the previous day shall be discarded and fresh food supplied daily.
- HRS and other guidelines say rabbits should only be fed a handful of pellets and only as much as they can eat at one setting, or less, eg: every second day. No rabbit caregiver without a vendetta would argue this.
- with this type of proper care, the pellets become treats, of course they're going to be excited.
- rabbits need to be encouraged to eat hay, thus its placed in their litter boxes. rabbits continuously defecate when they forage. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided. they are not dogs or cats.
- HRS and other guidelines say rabbits should only be fed a handful of pellets and only as much as they can eat at one setting, or less, eg: every second day. No rabbit caregiver without a vendetta would argue this.
- with this type of proper care, the pellets become treats, of course they're going to be excited.
- rabbits need to be encouraged to eat hay, thus its placed in their litter boxes. rabbits continuously defecate when they forage. there is no such thing as a clean litterbox when the recommended handfuls of hay are also provided. they are not dogs or cats.
hereinjersey
Member
Lighting in most areas of the facility was insufficiently distributed to permit routine inspection and cleaning during the entire working period. Most of the cages against the walls in all rooms were dark and inspectors were unable to view inside the enclosures without the use of a flashlight.
- rabbits live in underground burrows and are very comfortable in small dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.
- rabbits live in underground burrows and are very comfortable in small dark spaces. they are not dogs or cats.
hereinjersey
Member
All interior surfaces throughout the entire facility were covered in dust, dirt and debris and not kept clean. All surfaces, including the area where cleaning supplies are stored and where hay and feed is dispensed must be kept free of an accumulation of dust, dirt and debris. Cobwebs, dirt and debris must be removed from all areas, including ceilings, walls, shelves, electric outlets, lighting fixtures, stored caging, carriers, etc. Areas around sinks, wash basins, counter tops, refrigerators, food preparation areas, and the washer and dryer area must be scrubbed clean and kept in good repair. Items creating clutter must be either removed or properly stored to prevent nuisances and to facilitate proper cleaning throughout the facility. Areas around primary enclosures where urine, feces, and debris accumulate must be thoroughly scrubbed to remove the dried, encrusted urine stains and cleaned and disinfected on a daily basis.
- rabbits are closer to horses or chickens than cats and dogs and shelter rules for their comfort and care should reflect that.
- the constant use full bales of hay generate dust and debris. cobwebs are a natural result and are not harmful.
- this is the equivalent of asking a farm to look like a hospital.
- dogs don't defaecate in litter boxes, cat waste is particularly gnarly and both carry many communicable diseases requiring sterile conditions. rabbits do not. pasturella is only a minor concern, very few strains are virulent enough to be an issue, they're easy to spot and isolate and the sterile conditions for rabbits are more detrimental than helpful. Establishing and boosting proper immune systems in rabbits are paramount, they need environmental exposure.
- disinfectants are detrimental to rabbits' respiratory and olfactory systems, instinctively uncomfortable, environmentally unfriendly and as noted causes immunity issues.
- rabbits are closer to horses or chickens than cats and dogs and shelter rules for their comfort and care should reflect that.
- the constant use full bales of hay generate dust and debris. cobwebs are a natural result and are not harmful.
- this is the equivalent of asking a farm to look like a hospital.
- dogs don't defaecate in litter boxes, cat waste is particularly gnarly and both carry many communicable diseases requiring sterile conditions. rabbits do not. pasturella is only a minor concern, very few strains are virulent enough to be an issue, they're easy to spot and isolate and the sterile conditions for rabbits are more detrimental than helpful. Establishing and boosting proper immune systems in rabbits are paramount, they need environmental exposure.
- disinfectants are detrimental to rabbits' respiratory and olfactory systems, instinctively uncomfortable, environmentally unfriendly and as noted causes immunity issues.
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
FYI...don't know where you are getting your mis-information, but I didn't pay their rent in June or their phone bill. Enough of this. This forum will not tolerate this type of posts.
slavetoabunny
Well-Known Member
If any of these people start anything new, then they need to be banned. No guarantees they will not start another new, fake account.
Pipp
Well-Known Member
As you know, this forum rarely bans anyone, but if this continues, the IP addresses will be blocked. 
Its putting the entire rescue community in a terrible light.
People really need to let the harassers know they don't like seeing this stuff!
The rabbit community CAN make it stop, but they need to speak up! The leaders especially need to 'just say STOP!' to 'Bunny Justice' and her/their supporters!
sas :grumpy:
Its putting the entire rescue community in a terrible light.
People really need to let the harassers know they don't like seeing this stuff!
The rabbit community CAN make it stop, but they need to speak up! The leaders especially need to 'just say STOP!' to 'Bunny Justice' and her/their supporters!
sas :grumpy:
kmaben
Well-Known Member
Do these people even own rabbits?
hereinjersey
Member
OKAY,SINCE YOU OPENED IT UP TO DISCUSSION:
1. Setting The animal's LEG BY THE OWNER and that said animal NOT SEEING THE VET FOR A WEEK.
If that's acceptable to you, SAS, I feel for your rabbits. I really do.
1. Setting The animal's LEG BY THE OWNER and that said animal NOT SEEING THE VET FOR A WEEK.
If that's acceptable to you, SAS, I feel for your rabbits. I really do.
hereinjersey
Member
I am done here, ban if you want. I expected nothing less seeing these moderators. AND YES, I do own 3 rabbits for 3 years. And a dog. And have had rabbits for the last 10 years. My rabbits get water every day, pellets EVERY DAY (a small amount), greens every day, and hay UNLIMITED DAY AND NIGHT. I do not take in any more animals than I can adequately care for. They also are in a condo and have free run of the house at multiple times when I lock up the dog. and they have never had any health problems but do see the vet and do get routine grooming. I would do no less.
fourleggedfrog
Member
Much of the rebuttal is about "wild rabbits" these rescued rabbits live in pens not out in the wild.
Pipp
Well-Known Member
No, Lorraine, it's about rabbit RESCUE and people who save the lives of hundreds of rabbits, not a group of armchair quarterbacks with grudges from hell (or worse, they're blindly following friends with grudges from hell) and not even allowing (much less assisting) the rescues to do their job without constant interference.
And yes, I've have a rabbit here now who had a broken leg and no, I didn't take her into the vet, although I did consult with one. She was a recently arrived rescue, very nervous, she was holding it up and I did not think it was worth the risk of grabbing her and having her kick out and do further damage. We confirmed it had been broken once it was well on its way to healing.
I've also been running this forum dealing with hundreds (or thousands) of rabbit health issues for over seven years and I've seen how many broken bone surgeries have worked out vs. how many breaks have healed on their own, and I know when I'm going to play the odds. Kristie's broken leg rabbit was fine. It would have been as much of a risk to take her into to the vet. That makes our actions a personal treatment choice based on experiences -- experiences you don't have -- and not abuse.
But if you think I should be shut down just like you think Kristie should be shut down, send me your address and I'll add my current load of 64 rabbits to Kristie's 125 (or whatever) and you can deal with them.
And you can send a sympathy card when the 300 rabbits we're in the process of rescuing end up dead.
But hey, gotta be better than occasional dirty litter boxes, huh.
You're a great person, I have no problem with you on any other topic, ditto with Linda and Liz, but you guys have bought into a really bad batch of kool-aid.
You have to ask yourself that even if this level of perceived 'abuse' is true, is worth being this disruptive, detrimental, sucking out of resources out of rescue and the creation of all this horrendous ill will?
Every minute and every dollar could be spend on true cruelty investigations, factory farming, backyard breeders, abandoned street bunnies and so many other things.
sas :tears2:
And yes, I've have a rabbit here now who had a broken leg and no, I didn't take her into the vet, although I did consult with one. She was a recently arrived rescue, very nervous, she was holding it up and I did not think it was worth the risk of grabbing her and having her kick out and do further damage. We confirmed it had been broken once it was well on its way to healing.
I've also been running this forum dealing with hundreds (or thousands) of rabbit health issues for over seven years and I've seen how many broken bone surgeries have worked out vs. how many breaks have healed on their own, and I know when I'm going to play the odds. Kristie's broken leg rabbit was fine. It would have been as much of a risk to take her into to the vet. That makes our actions a personal treatment choice based on experiences -- experiences you don't have -- and not abuse.
But if you think I should be shut down just like you think Kristie should be shut down, send me your address and I'll add my current load of 64 rabbits to Kristie's 125 (or whatever) and you can deal with them.
And you can send a sympathy card when the 300 rabbits we're in the process of rescuing end up dead.
But hey, gotta be better than occasional dirty litter boxes, huh.
You're a great person, I have no problem with you on any other topic, ditto with Linda and Liz, but you guys have bought into a really bad batch of kool-aid.
You have to ask yourself that even if this level of perceived 'abuse' is true, is worth being this disruptive, detrimental, sucking out of resources out of rescue and the creation of all this horrendous ill will?
Every minute and every dollar could be spend on true cruelty investigations, factory farming, backyard breeders, abandoned street bunnies and so many other things.
sas :tears2:
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