Impossible litter training... Help!

[ZoeStevens]

I have two rabbits - Abe and Penny. They bonded and both are spayed. They are young adults.

I had Abe first by a few months and he came from a breeder but he litter trained very quickly. He did poo/pee all over the kitchen but that pretty much stopped when he was fixed.

I get Penny some time later and she will not be litter trained, and Abe has picked up some of her bad habits as well.

I'm kind of at the end if my rope, here. She pees on the floor of the hutch so I have wipe/scrub it out at least once a day. She pees on the hardwood floor and if I don't see it right away it damages the floor (it's a year old!). They both pee and poo all over the kitchen which only discolours the grout but I have to wipe pee and sweep poo 5-6 times a day so I'm not walking in it. Abe does these things too. He does use a litter box. I am not sure if Penny ever uses it.

I have tried multiple litter boxes, different types if litter, with no luck.

The only solution I can think of is it to put them in a hutch with a wire bottom and severely limit their time out (currently they are out 5-10 hours a day).

Any suggestions? Why is she impossible to litter train?

She has seen a vet since these issues began so it doesn't seem medical.

 

[ladysown]

I would severely limit her outside of the cage time. Quite frankly I'd leave her in her cage until she was consistently using the litter box and then treat her like a toddler...you need to earn your freedom.

And then if I let her out it would be something very easy to clean that can't soak up urine smell. So no hardwood, no tiles etc.

WHILE you put her in a cage and LEAVE her there I would give your kitchen/let out area a very very good scrub to eliminate all urine smell.

so steps I would take
1. litter train in your cage. Be reliable.
2. earn your freedom. You are peeing in your box consistently. I'm going to give you "x" amount of space (like putting up a x-pen of something). See how she handles that freedom.
3. as she handles freedom better, than increase the amount of time and the space she is allowed out. Incremental earnings.

In the meantime if you want her to have running around time, do you have a back yard she can run around in? A big dog kennel you can set up or something?

 

[ZoeStevens]

Thank you for the advice! I will start that today. Can I let Abe out and not Penny? He is pretty good, although he does pee in the kitchen now so I don't know... The hutch isn't that big (41" by 22" inside dimensions) - she is a little lionhead and he is an angora so they don't have a ton of space in there.

So, for litter training in the cage - how do I get her to do that? I'm not convinced she ever would - she's been peeing on the floor for so long, why would it even occur to her to pee in that box, you know? I even tried putting a piece of fleece in one corner for her to pee on and actually she mostly did (she also pees on the hay bits that accumulate under the hay basket) so maybe I can start there and eventually move the fleece into a low litter box of some sort.

I have a backyard but I live half in the woods - no fences and lots of predators. I was thinking of harness training them... And I also have a pen for dogs to play in and as long as we're outside I don't think there is any danger. But my yard is full of a kind of mint that is bad for them, ground ivy. I don't think it would kill them in small doses but I have read that it's not safe for them.

 

[Blue eyes]

(she also pees on the hay bits that accumulate under the hay basket) so maybe I can start there and eventually move the fleece into a low litter box of some sort.

.

How is your litter box set-up? If she likes peeing on hay then, by all means, top the litter with hay. I would put multiple boxes in there giving her little choice but to choose one. I think it's a matter of getting her to go in one -- any one. Buns don't want to lay on a solid floor that has pee on it. Is the rest of the cage floor (the part exposed apart from the litter boxes) solid? I would remove any fleece or anything else soft in there. Just solid floor and litter boxes. I reallly think that this will force her to go in a box. Maybe not at first, but if she's stuck in the cage, I think she'll get the hang of it. (BTW, how long has it been since her spay?)

 

[ZoeStevens]

How is your litter box set-up? If she likes peeing on hay then, by all means, top the litter with hay. I would put multiple boxes in there giving her little choice but to choose one. I think it's a matter of getting her to go in one -- any one. Buns don't want to lay on a solid floor that has pee on it. Is the rest of the cage floor (the part exposed apart from the litter boxes) solid? I would remove any fleece or anything else soft in there. Just solid floor and litter boxes. I reallly think that this will force her to go in a box. Maybe not at first, but if she's stuck in the cage, I think she'll get the hang of it. (BTW, how long has it been since her spay?)

The litter is a small cat litter box with pine pellets. I have also tried that newspaper stuff. I have put hay in it but she hasn't used it any more than usual. I have also seen her in the box, I know she can jump info stuff. She has jumped into other boxes and peed in them, so I know she is physically capable of it.

The rest of the floor is bare (sticky tiles), there is no bedding. I have tried multiple boxes however I use decent sized boxes so two boxes really reduces their floor space. And she still managed to pee on the floor!

The only fleece I've put in is in the corner, hoping she would pee on there and at least make it easier to clean. Aside from that, they have had no bedding or material on the floor of the cage for a couple months now. They are in there all night and during the week when we are at work and she still pees on the floor every day. Kind if discouraging! Hopefully extra time restricted in the hutch will convince her.

Not sure how long it's been since her spay.... Several months. I got her spayed from a rescue a few months ago. I have the certificate somewhere but I think it's been long enough for leftover hormones to work themselves out of her system.

 

[PaGal]

I would keep both buns in the cage with no free time until they are litter trained by which I mean peeing in a litter box only and mostly pooing in it as well. Not long ago I got two buns from my neighbor he no longer wanted. From an early age he had them in a wire cage outside. They are over a year old and in just a week learned to use the litter box only for peeing and most poo.

Buns poo a lot and it's not that big of a deal to have a few around. Typically buns will seem to choose a favored corner. If you notice this then be sure to put a litter box there. hang a hay rack next to the litter box so that they will be in the box if they want to munch on hay. Pick up and place poo from cage floor into the litter box. Also, soak a piece of paper towel with any pee outside the litter box and place this in the litter box. It doesn't have to be a big piece. This has worked with all three of my buns.

With the two new buns I did make sure to clean their cage every day. They were used to living in filth and I hoped by cleaning they would learn to prefer clean. I usually clean the litter boxes every day but for them I cleaned out the dirty litter but did not wash the box as I wanted it to retain their urine odor. So I washed it every other day.

I'm sure your buns can be trained but you have to be consistent and you may have to try doing things in different ways if what you are doing does not seem to be working. Good Luck!

 

[ladysown]

the cage has a wood floor?

If so, you are going to have to take that out.
I'd be inclined to make or build them a new habitat to live in.

She sounds like she has made up her mind about where she wants to do her business...and that's on the floor of her cage.

So either accommodate her OR... get her a new cage/new set up and then work from square one in the new set up. Doing that you would....

1. isolate her in the area that you want her to do her business in. Do not put in the litter box yet. DO NOT let her out until she has picked her spot (put bedding over the entire area and just ignore her (don't clean her out) until she has picked a spot). Normally this takes less than a week. THEN.. put the litter box IN THAT SPOT with the same type of bedding. anchor it in the area if you must (a double litter box system works well for that or even a hefty brick). put some of her dirty litter in the box and DO NOT LET HER OUT until she is reliably using it.

2. then gradually let her out in her living/play corners and increase her freedom over time.

Consider this your opportunity to give them a larger safe living area.

 

[ZoeStevens]

The floor is sticky tiles so easy to clean.

The other thing is that Abe is prone to sore hocks and I just noticed tonight that he has them again. I am sure this is caused by the extra time in the cage sitting in the urine. I have a second cage - would it be a good idea to separate them until, hopefully, she is no longer peeing on the floor, and his hocks are healed?

 

[ladysown]

might be. hard to say for sure. or put some shavings in there to soak up the pee.

I highly doubt she's going to start using the litter box. She's picked her spot. So put the litter box there or put them in a new cage.

 

[ZoeStevens]

Haha, if it were as easy sticking a litterbox where she pees, she'd already be litter trained! Her spot, apparently, is "everywhere" and I am not putting shavings down in my entire house!

At any rate, I think I'll give your original advice a try before I hope a new cage fixes things, or give up and keep her locked away. If, following the advice given, I am unsuccessful, well... I'll cross that bridge WHEN I get there.

My next step is to mount the hay box to the wall over the litter box. Hopefully if she's sitting there eating, and all the bits are falling into the litter, she will be more likely to pee in the litter box.

 

[ZoeStevens]

Well as of this morning we've gone a full 12 hours of no pee on the hutch floor. Woo. I put in three litter boxes, so there isn't much floor space left to pee on. But, you know, small victories. If this doesn't work I may set up a new area - a pen-type area - and see if Penny is CAPABLE of "picking a spot" rather than going anywhere. Might get one of those rolling chair mat thingies.