I am furious (rabbit at country fair)

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I don't agree with the inflammatory tone taken in this thread and speculation posted as fact. I also find the following threat to the owner very disturbing. "I am going to make sure the person that did this pays and pays dearly." I do not find this acceptable behavior for someone in the position of a moderator on this board. This board was not established as a fanatic ARA forum, and I strongly appose this type of anti-breeder mentality here.

#1 - No one may have even realized that the animal was injured, nor is it know how it was injured. It is unlikely that the animal was brought to the fair in that condition. Does the fair perform health checks on all incoming exhibits? (They should)

#2. - Mention was made of the rabbit being murdered by its head being slammed against a wall, when clearly Randy has no idea what really happened to the rabbit. It may have been humanely euthanized.

#3. - The display cages are for the animal's own protection, and are not prisons. Rabbits cannot be allowed to run free on the fairgrounds - they must be contained in some manner.

Fairs give the opportunity for many people to learn more about animals that they may never have seen (especially those in urban areas). These fairs can serve a very important service to the general public.

Randy - If you suspect that an animal in a displayis injured, NEVER reach into that animal's cage. An injured animal may react in an aggressive manner, or may further injure itself. Instead, immediately contact the proper authorities to check into the situation.



Pam


 
Yeah, what Pam said.

I'm sorry you were so shaken by what you saw :hug:
 
Pam,

I do respect your opinion however wrong your comments are in this situation. But your comments, while well intentioned and I do understand and respect them, are totally opposite from the facts in this case. The proof will be in the resolution of this issue with the fair and proper authorities when they review the facts of this incident. The incident of injury as well as the death of this rabbit were witnessed by others in the show. I am not anti-breeder....our very closest friends are breeders and we help each other with rabbit things and go out together all the time. We met at alocal fair quite a while back...and we have some of their rabbits. We even send people to them to adopt rabbits if the people are looking for something not in a rescue.Wehave also met and are friends with other members of this group. And these people rescuethemselves. We spent a lot of time at the show at another fair just a couple of weeks ago because the breeders were interested in learning about what we do...and some of the treatments that are available.The club there asked if we would help with some of their sick rabbits....and they may surrender one to me to treat to prevent him being put down. This is not "get all breeders". This is one particular breeder that is not even liked in his own club...some of the other members ratted him out to begin with. This one particular individual is not an asset in any way to rabbits or rabbit breeders. He is very old school and what he does, and did in this incident, may have been the way things were done back then...but not now. That is supported in the fact that other breeders have a problem with what he did and have told me so and are willing to back me up. This individual is directly opposite of the goodwill and education policies that are part of ARBA.

This is just a bad situation all the way around and I really don't see a lot of good in any of this right now. What this person didwas wrong and there is no excuse for what happened. Not only was it wrong, it was criminal. And again, this is not meant as a flame to breeders....the ones I know put their heart and soul into their rabbits and care deeply for them. This is just one isolated incident. There is good and bad in everything....and don't think there aren't bad rescues because we knew one recently.Andeven here....we are not perfect but we do thebest we can and always take the rabbit's best interestinto primary consideration. My overall concern is not for the benefit of the breeders and not for my benefit as I really wish the entire incident had never happened...but the focus should be on what is best for the rabbits....and in this case, the results were not in the rabbit's best interest. And let's not make this a personal issue....if we don't agree, let's agree to disagree and let it drop for everyone's benefit.

Randy
 
The information you presented in the first post is confusing Randy.

You stated "I didn't see the rabbit leave the fairgrounds with the breeder and I stayed and watched. I suspect he murdered the rabbit right at the fair grounds."

If you did not know what happened to the rabbit, where did you get the following information from? "And he might have lost his life in the end....but I would not have done it by smashing his head into a wall."

Is this actually what happened? Or was that part conjecture????

It appears that you may not be aware of all the facts in this issue.

Personal threats to the person involved are uncalled for. Any criminal charges should be handled by the proper authorities, not by a vigilante. This type of retaliatory behavior should not be encouraged by RO moderators.

You should be well aware that many rabbits are kept in enclosures. They are no more "prisons" than "imprisoning" a rabbit in your home.

Pam


 
I have to agree with the statement regarding "knowing" the animal was hurt.

I found a lamb that was caught in a pen and pulled him out with help from 2 people (we didn't want anyone hurt) and when we finished getting him out gently and assessing him - the owners showed up. They had been in the show ring. They had no clue. They thanked us over and over and told us that some people would have just left him.

I know there are people who do some things like is suspected in this situation, but I will add and support Pam's statement about not truly knowing. Our veterinarian is on site at the county fair and he's there along with 2 or 3 other vets at State Fair. There have been animals that were injured and I know for a fact that one was taken to the fair office and put down. They didn't want to do that in the view of everyone.

If they are injured the decision is up to the owner as to what must be done. Sometimes euthanasia is a good alternative (IMHO) to living life in pain. My motto is "when it's more pain/misery than pleasure" it's time to help them go.


 
I don't think that Randy was bashing ARBA or rabbit breeders in general; just this particular breeder. I know a number of breeders that I have a lot of respect for. They love their animals; they have names for them and grieve when they pass. There are also a number of "bad breeders" that need to be stopped.

I support his campaign to get the fairs to institute regulations to make sure all animals are humanely treated. State fairs have ARBA sponsored shows, but I think they are very poorly regulated. They just do not seem to be as controlled as a regular show.

The primary message I got from Randy's OP was that we need to be vigilant and look out for the animals we see at fairs, petting zoos, etc.
 
We have many impressionable young minds on the board here, and there is a good lesson to be learned about how such situations should be handled.

It's very important that they go through the proper channels of reporting a suspected injury.

They should also be aware that if a criminal offense is involved, it is up to the authorities to pursue the proper course of action. Threatening an individual or attempting to extract justice on their own may involve criminal or civil offenses on their part.



Pam ;)
 
Any personal issues aside, I think the real sad thing here is thinking of that bunny in pain. I hope that whatever happened to him, that he is no longer in misery and no longer in pain.

It's really heart-breaking to see this sort of thing, unfortunalty it happens a lot, sometimes on perpose and sometimes by accident.

I hope you are resting in peace little bunny.
 
pamnock wrote:
I don't agree with the inflammatory tone taken in this thread and speculation posted as fact. I also find the following threat to the owner very disturbing. "I am going to make sure the person that did this pays and pays dearly." I do not find this acceptable behavior for someone in the position of a moderator on this board. This board was not established as a fanatic ARA forum, and I strongly appose this type of anti-breeder mentality here.
Click to expand...


I read Randy's first post and his second. It's clear if you put this statement in the context of his 2 posts he wants to have the person punished to the full extent of the law. In NC that would be a first class felony.

Also, if you look at the rest of the context, Randy states:I am also demanding that the breeder be banned from future fairs. He is elderly so I think that I might suggest that he "retire" so that he might retain some dignity if he has any.

I don't find anything inflammatory about threatening to pursue every legal means possible to punish cruelty to animals.
 
Either way, especially with mods involved, this should be dealt with in private. Randy could have edited his post and added a note if there is a problem. Especially from mods. It's wrong from both sides tobring it into the forum.

With all that aside, I just came in to check a few things and the post got my attention and I just wanted to say that hopefully, all of this will be dealt with properly and that in the future bunnies will be checked over more carefully.
 
seniorcats wrote:

Also, if you look at the rest of the context, Randy states:I am also demanding that the breeder be banned from future fairs. He is elderly so I think that I might suggest that he "retire" so that he might retain some dignity if he has any.

I don't find anything inflammatory about threatening to pursue every legal means possible to punish cruelty to animals.
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We clearly don't have any facts on how the rabbit was injured, so I am unclear as to how criminal charges should be pursued against the owner.

If this is a criminal case, it is out of Randy's hands. This is something that would be handled by the authorities and not a civil case being pursued by Randy.

Pam
 
Whatever happened, I think Randy's goal is admirable. Having more stringent rules at fairs etc. can't be a bad plan and can only work to help the animals involved.

___________
Nadia


 
NZminilops wrote:
Any personal issues aside, I think the real sad thing here is thinking of that bunny in pain. I hope that whatever happened to him, that he is no longer in misery and no longer in pain.

It's really heart-breaking to see this sort of thing, unfortunalty it happens a lot, sometimes on perpose and sometimes by accident.

I hope you are resting in peace little bunny.
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I couldn't agree more!

As far as the thread goes - I think Randy has very strong feelingsthat a really bad thing happened which probably affects him deeply. I am very sensitive myself and those sort of things break my heart.

pamnock is (i hope this is correct) I think trying to convey that when we don't really know what happened, we shouldn't speculate. At least if we are speculating, make it extremely clear that is the case and always go to the proper authority for the situation.

With pam's gentle reminder that we have young people on the board, I agree. We want to set the example of following rules and laws. We don't want someone to take a situation into their own hands nor do we want to promote violence against someone suspected of abuse. We might very well want to choke the guy if it's true what Randy thinks happened, but in truth, we have to go by the laws that are in place to handle such things. If not, we'd have all sorts of riots in show situations! We don't want to be the Sports parent socking the coach so to speak.

When it comes down to the wire - we're all very passionate about our rabbits as well as other pets.Mistreatment of animals is something most of us are completely appalled by.

:group2:
 
This is EXACTLY what I would've posted as well, so I may as well just quote it. Nicely put, Nadia. :)

I honestly don't want to become involved with any strife, but I think this is perfectly put...and states the heart of things.

HoneyPot wrote:
Whatever happened, I think Randy's goal is admirable. Having more stringent rules at fairs etc. can't be a bad plan and can only work to help the animals involved.

___________
Nadia
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Yeah, as a journalist, based solely on the first post, I have to say without the facts and witnesses presented,it would have been a non-story. It would have been written off asemotional (if notfanatical) and not pursued. Although of course I personally understand the emotion,the apparent speculation and the references to the 'prison' were the main problems.

Accidents happen, euthanasiais the right of the owner, but it has to be humane. Unless more info reveals the injury wasn't accidental, the only point that can be pursued is the latter, and only if witnesses state it wasn't in fact humane, or the methoddoesn't fit whatever laws are in place in that area.

I'm sure withthe heat of the moment subsiding, Randyknows enough to do the researchand present facts that WILL peg this breeder (he obviouslyknows the guy's history) as a bad egg, but this incident, as presented, can't really stand on it's own.

Any rescuer entering an agricultural arena will always be treated with apprehension, thanks to their more fanatical brethren. But at least their presence will keep the organizers and participants on their toes and ensure better care for their livestock, in this case especially the rabbits, traditionally rural underdogs -- right down there with chickens.

Thanks to Randy for helping and caring, and thanks to Pam for tempering it withreality.


sas :(

 
Thank you to EVERYONE for discussing this topic in an adult and rational manner. It is certainly something that should be discussed. No matter if you are a pet owner, breeder, rescuer, whatever...I think we all want the same outcome....the humane treatment of the furry ones.

The only problems I have ever seen have been at county or state fairs. I'm not sure how a fair becomes ARBA sanctioned. Pam, is there anthing ARBA can do to police these fairs?
 
Are they arba sanctioned or just arba ruled? That's what ours is. Just ruled and judged by ARBA.
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Good point. I'm not really sure. Pam, could you educate us on how ARBA comes into play with a county or state fair vs. a show? How much control do they have over the rules (and I know I'm probably not using the correct terminology here) that apply to fair entrants. Does ARBA have rules regarding the treatment of the rabbits?

I know I could research this myself, but I'm being lazy and I'm sure Pam knows the answers right off the bat. Good discussion, I'm very interested.
 
Oh, I'm sure ARBA has treatment rules and I'm sure that any 4H organization has rules as well.

Ours are very strict in that if you are caught abusing the animal in any way - you cannot show any animals in that fair or the next year's at the very least.


 
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