Help with Snuffles

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Jordan

Jordan

Active Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
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Location
Crete, Nebraska, USA
My bunny, Delilah, randomly started sneezing a few weeks ago and had a little bit of a runny nose. I took her to the vet and he diagnosed her with snuffles. He prescribed her Albon for 10 days. The last day of that 10 days she was still sick so I went back and he just gave me another 10 days worth of Albon. Yesterday was the last day of that ten days and she is still sniffling and sneezing. I went back and he just said to keep giving her the Albon until it stops. She isn't lethargic or anything like that, just sneezes and has a little bit of a runny nose.

Is it normal for this to take so long? It just seems like a really long time for an animal to be on antibiotics. I was planning on taking her to see another vet to get a second opinion but I live in a small town and the next closest vet is 30-45 min away. I just don't want to put her through the stress of a long car ride if this is normal.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks,
Jordan
 
I really think that you should find another vet (we may be able to help. )

The vet should have cultured the exudate from you rabbit's nose so that an antibiotic could be prescribed that is senstive to that particular strain of bacteria
Albon (sulfa drugs)is not going to be very effective for an upper respiatory infection ; there are many better drugs than that particualr one.

In a 10 day period you should have seen some improvement and any vet who just tells you to keep giving it until it works is not thinking too hard on the problem.
I am going to ask you to give us some other basic info on your rabbit which will include your location.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=44529&forum_id=16

Then we can give you the list of vets for your city/ state whatever...
 
- Location
Nebraska
- Description (Breed, color., weight)
Holland Lop, Broken Tort, about 2 pounds
- Age
almost 4 months
- spayed/neutered?
not yet
- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? yes
- When did they last use their litterbox?just a minute agolol
- Any unusual behavior? scratching her ears a little more than normal but not too terribly bad

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before?

Has never been sick before this

- Diet - what does your bunny eat? Timothy Hay, some alfalfa hay,pellets, romaine, and some parsley
- when and what did s/he eat last? pellets about an hour ago

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally? yes everything else is normal

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach?

no

- has the rabbit been outdoors?

no



I was wondering about the culture test. Since the vet didn't do one I started one on my own. I'm a biochemistry major with access to everything I would need for it at my college. I have the bacteria growing now and was planning on testing the antibiotic tomorrow, but if this doesn't seem normal to you either I will probably just take her toa differentvet instead. I've been really worried about her, but she is still acting normal at least.

 
That's awesome that you thought to do a culture and sensitivity test. I agree that sulfa drugs don't usually do very well in URIs, and a better vet might be a good option. I don't think a vet would take very kindly to you presenting your own culture and sensitivity data, although it would be really cool to do.

This link is about Culture and Sensitivity Testing. A good vet may prescribe Baytril (enrofloxacin) or Cipro (ciprofloxacin) while you are waiting for the test results to come back. Although they may not be able to treat the infection, it's better than nothing for that week it takes to determine what bacteria are there and what drugs they are susceptible to.

Here's our library article on Upper Respiratory Infections

The vet should give you an antibiotic based on the results of the test. Here are safe antibiotics for rabbits--notice that some are only safe injected due to bad effects on the GI tract. Safe Antibiotics
 
Haha yeah I don't think he'd like it too much either, the test was just for me. I just wanted to see if the Albon was working at all.

Thanks so much for all of your help. I will definately be calling someone else tomorrow. :)
 
Thanks so much for the vet recommendations! lol I've been looking everywhere for a rabbit vet in Nebraska but no one has any listed. That office is only about 30 minutes from my house so that works perfectly. :)


 
Let us know what that vet says. I really don't think Albon will kill that kind of infection. You need to have the big guns brought out for this, especially if it's being...
 
Jordan wrote:
-
 

I was wondering about the culture test.  Since the vet didn't do one I started one on my own.  I'm a biochemistry major with access to everything I would need for it at my college.  I have the bacteria growing now and was planning on testing the antibiotic tomorrow, but if this doesn't seem normal to you either I will probably just take her to a different vet instead.  I've been really worried about her, but she is still acting normal at least.
Click to expand...

That made me burst out laughing. Good thinking. Let us know what the new vet says.
 
So I called that vet on the list you gave me this morning and apparently they only treat cats and ferrets haha, but I found a different rabbit vet that wasn't too far away from my town. The vet I went to is Dr. Catherine Langdon at A-4 Animal Hospital if you wanted to add that one to the list instead :p.

She said exactly what you guys were thinking. Albon was useless against those bacteria. She gave me baytrill instead. She also checked swabber her ears and checked the wax under a microscope to see why she was scratching so much. I've only given one dose of it so far but I'm positive it will work a hundred times better than the albon and it's marshmallow flavored so my bunny loves it lol :)
 
Well, Baytril (enrofloxacin) is a broad-spectrum antibiotic. It's going to work better than a sulfa drug, for sure, but a lot of bacteria are still resistant to it. If you don't see improvement in the next 4 days, I'd say, you may need to change antibiotics.
 
Yeah. I'm supposed to call her back in 8-10 days and give her an update. If it's not working she has something else I can try.
 
Umm....another scary thread. If a vet gives a diagnosis of "snuffles"....that is all the information I need to know that particular vet is out of his/her league...."snuffles" as a disease is a myth....it'sa catch all phrase for most any infection a rabbit can get and is a holdover from the "dark ages" in which no vets would treat rabbits. Albon?....the only thing that Albon is used for is coccidia and it doesn't work against that. Baytril and Sulfa drugs are mostly ineffective against most pathogens usually found in rabbits. Sulfa drugs (Sulfatrim, SMZ, TMZ, Bactrim, etc.) are old school drugs that are again from old school treatments....we now know that sulfa is usually ineffective and can harm the beneficial bacteria in the gut. Most top end vets have long ago abandoned Baytril (even in dogs). Depending on the exact bacteria (and many times it's Pasteurella that is the villain in rabbits but it can be others), my preferred antibiotics are Zithromax or Zeniquin for most issues and Pen G, Convenia or Chloramphenicol (sometimes in tandem with some of the other drugs) for more difficult (for example, abscesses or walled off infections) to treat issues.

You might find that Baytril may work for the first one or two times it's used....and then it's done.

Since you have the capability of doing a culture....Pasteurella Multocida is a gram negative non-motile coccobacillus. It is a faculative anaerobe. It is carried sub-clinically in the upper respiratory of a rabbit (and most mammals and birds) Many times pasteurella will not grow in a dish....therefore I have learned in my years of treating rabbits that if I have clinical presentations of a bacterial infection and no growth in a dish....I treat for Pasteurella. One of the most effective drugs against Pasteurella is Azithromycin (dosed at higher than normal dose when comparing a dog/cat protocol). We have been seeing some unusual bacteria in rabbits (again upper respiratory) and one of the is Peptostreptococcus....a most interesting bug. Will be interested to see if you grow anything...and if so, what it is.

And since you have knowledge of microbiology....oral antibiotics (especially sulfa, penicillins and cephalosporins) are very effective at killing or causing the loss of population of the gram positive bacteria in the GI that digests food. Even Baytril can have a negative effect on that population. When you lose that bacteria, the patient will develop GI stress and you also lose your control of harmful bacteria....primarily Clostridium and sometimes E Coli. This is why it's so important to fully understand a rabbit's GI as well as the operation of the drug.

Randy
 
Luckily, she did find a different vet. My question is, though, did the vet do a swab for a culture and sensitivity test?
 
Unfortunately most vets don't actually culture....either the client doens't want the expensed or the vet "assumes". At one time not so long ago, we could pretty much assume Pasteurella.....but no longer and even if it is Pasteurella, no guarantee that the particular strain is sensitive to any one drug. And it appears it's going to get more challenging. Been at the NC State Fair....and the vet school is across the street and has a huge presense at the fair. Talked with quite a few vets from the school, local practices and drug companies.....we shared some good information. And I have some researching to do after the fair to look into some ofthese alternate drugs that reps have suggested. They were also quite interested in BioSponge. We have got to get people to understand if we screw up and get resistant bacteria in animals....most of those bugs come our way. We need to culture (when possible)and attack bacteria properly.
 
No she did not do a culture and sensitivity test. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a vet anywhere near me that would in time. I was more concerned with getting her in to see a better vet right away, but now that I feel better about the situation I'm going to start calling around to different vet clinics. The medicine does seem to be helping quite a bit already though. I've only seen her sneeze once since she's been on it and she has so much more energy its insane. She's running laps around the room as I'm typing this and her new favorite way to pass the time is to chase the cat around my apartment relentlessly haha :p.
 
Ok, that sounds good. It's possible that the baytril will clear it up, sounds like it's helping so far. :)
 
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