HELP ME: Previously bonded rabbits now HATE each other!

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

Hello everyone,

So my two rabbits Chubbers and Willow were and excellent pair before Chubbers got neutered. I took him to the vet the other day and was told everything was healing perfectly fine and I could start having them play together again. I had kept Chubbers in a small separate enclosure to heal. Previously they shared a play pen and big litter box. They groomed each other, cuddled, and shared food. Willow took the submissive role very easily in the past. But now that introduced Chubbers back into Willow in my living room all hell broke loose. They circled and RIPPED each other's hair out! I separated them immediately. The second time they got a long and I decided to connect the cage and the large play pen so they could share the space and cleaned it out VERY well to reduce territorial tendencies. They did very very well so I decided it'll be fine for the night. I realized this was a mistake...I woke up and Willow was out of the play pen (jumped out I assume) so I put her back in and immediately Chubbers went to mount which started the circling behavior again and soon started the biting. I separated them. Two separate cages, I then went to work and tried to let them out at the same time to clean their areas and this time it was bad twice I had to separate the fighting and I actually got bit on the hand twice. It drew blood once on me. I have checked my rabbits and see no wounds but I may have to take a closer look. Long story short I don't know what to do. Keeping them separate is not sustainable especially since the healing cage isn't big enough in my opinion for a permanent housing. I do not have the space in my one bedroom apartment to house them separately comfortably. As I said previously they were bonded before. I'm afraid that they just hate each other now and the bond is forever broken....HELP. I'm a fairly new rabbit mom.

 

[Blue eyes]

It can take many weeks for hormones to dissipate after a neuter. If his hormones are still in flux, then either rabbit could react to those hormones. I really get irritated when vets that don't know better tell people to put a newly neutered rabbit with another rabbit. This is seldom good advice.

The other issue is that even if Chubbers was not neutered, but had been just taken to the vet by himself for the day and then came back, it is very possible that he would have been met with the same reaction. Females are particularly territorial and don't like intruders. Chubbers, now smelling totally different (and unfamiliar) from being at the vet's, would be seen as a threat. Bonded rabbits need to go everywhere together. (That includes to the vet, even if only one of them is ill.)

I assume these rabbits are relatively young? Baby bonds just don't count as true bonds. Hormones will often turn previously cuddly, loving rabbits into mortal enemies.

What to do now? Since they've had what sounds like some pretty serious fighting, they need to be separated- at least for now. They should be kept separate for now anyway to allow Chubbers hormones to dissipate. That usually takes a good 4 weeks after surgery but can take as much as 6-8 weeks. (how old was he when neutered?)

It is also advised to spay the female if you want them to bond. An intact female isn't the best candidate for bonding. Hormones affect the possibility of bonding. This is why it advised to fix both rabbits to give the best chance of establishing a true bond (still there are no guarantees).

Once she is also fixed and his hormones have had time to settle, then the bonding process can be attempted once again. I would strongly, strongly advise that such bonding be done in a location that neither rabbit has been before. Given their recent history of fighting, it will be to your advantage to provide neutral territory. It could make the difference between a successful outcome and unsuccessful.

It is unfortunate that you have had to go through this, but hopefully it is still salvage-able and they'll eventually agree to bond.

 

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

Actually what's funny is they were getting along the day I took him back from the vet it wasn't until the morning after that they brawled again! So I don't know what's up with that.

Yes they were young. Willow is 6 months old and she was spayed at 5 months. Chubbers is almost 4 months old now. He was neutered at almost 13 weeks by a very rabbit savy vet. He healed just fine, I know that is fairly young for a neuter though but I thought I would catch the brunt of hormones before this happened and obviously that didn't help much. So you're saying I should avoid a face to face all the way until about 6 weeks after the surgery?

 

[Blue eyes]

Good that she is already spayed. Wasn't sure on that.

Given that they have been fighting each time you've had them together (since the neuter), it would be good to keep them apart for awhile in hopes that they forget that they don't like each other. It sounds like it has been about 3 weeks since the neuter? If they hadn't fought, trying them together in a couple weeks (5 weeks after surgery) might've been an idea. But since they've fought, I'd err on the side of caution and wait longer, giving them time to forget their disagreements. I don't see any advantage of trying sooner. It could even set things back further.

 

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

Okay so your advice would be cage swapping until then? What can I do to work on them in the future? They can still see each other through the bars and touch noses. I just feel bad doing so because there is a clear disadvantage to one of the buns because one is in a large play pen then and the other is in a small dog pen. It was only meant for Chubbers while he was healing so he didn't hurt himself. Don't have the space or the funds to change the housing situation at all right now. It's just really sad that this has suddenly started. Do you think their relationship is mendable? I do not want to have to rehouse or give one up. I love each of their unique personalities but I won't be able to give them both the proper care in my eyes of this continues which worries me.

 

[Blue eyes]

I would try to separate them totally and completely so they can forget each other. This would mean separate rooms, no cage swapping. If possible, I would put them each in an area different from whatever area you hope to eventually keep them together. The idea behind this would be to keep one from claiming that 'future together area' as their own. Keep them totally separate like this for a couple weeks.

Then I would figure out a separate neutral area in which to bond them when the time comes. Hopefully each will see the other as a brand new rabbit, having forgotten any previous fights. Once it is time to start bonding them again, cage swapping may be helpful. Sometimes that can help. Sometimes it can be counterproductive. That will be your call.

Bonding can be a tricky thing and is so dependent on the individual rabbits. What works for some doesn't work for others. Some bond effortlessly, others are difficult or outright refuse to bond. The advice I offered is what I would do in your shoes, but it is no magic answer.

I wouldn't suggest keeping them where they can touch noses now because they can still harm each other. I also wouldn't suggest cage-swapping yet. BUT, that doesn't mean that it would be wrong to do so. It could still work (or it could backfire). Generally though, if a pair of rabbits have gotten to fighting, having them forget each other is the best chance of starting over and hoping for the best.

 

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

For my living space, I live in a small one bedroom apartment and unfortunately it's either the living room or nothing. I could potentially keep one rabbit in the kitchen area but that is also a very small area and one would have to remain in the living room. They cannot go in my bedroom because there is literally no room to put them in there. Thank you for the advice though I'll have to do some thinking

 

[Imbrium]

I started with two girls, 7 and 8 weeks old. They got spayed at around 5 mos iirc... didn't seem hormonal quite yet at the time of surgery. Went to the vet together, snuggled in recovery together, came home to their 'hospital' cage to recuperate together. A couple days later when they started to feel better, all hell broke loose. I separated them, then tried putting them back together a few days later... same thing. Tried the front yard, which is when I discovered that Gaz, the submissive one, had suddenly worked up the nerve to give dominant Nala a humping (on her face, no less, lol). I went back to having them separate (but cages next to each other). The next day I took an x-pen to my neighbor's kitchen and sat in it with the two bunnies while her little poodle dog stared nervously into the pen. Between the never-before-seen neutral territory and the mild stress of the dog they'd never met before, they re-bonded and I didn't have any more problems.

I would try rebooting them with totally neutral territory and/or 'fear bonding' (putting them in an empty bath tub together or taking them on a car ride if you've got a second person so that someone can sit in the back seat and referee). Anything that makes them nervous and willing to remember that they like each other, really. This might work, it might not, but it's the easiest and quickest fix so it's worth a shot. If the quick reboot doesn't work, the next thing to do is separate them completely (where they can't see or smell each other is best) for a few weeks to reset things completely and let them forget about their fighting (rabbits can hold grudges!). Once they've had time to forget, start the bonding process from scratch as though they were meeting for the first time. Hormones linger for about 4 weeks in girls and 6-8 weeks in boys after they get fixed, so if you end up having to separate them, wait for the 8 week mark to reintroduce for the best chance of success.

 

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I tried stress bonding them by lightly hitting a box they were in together and then doing the bathtub method. It worked! I did that for a few days and now I have it where their free roam time is together in my living room and they both are making progress again! Chubbs is still the dominant one and demands his groomings from Willow but she freely gives them. They cuddle and hunky around my living room for play time. I have been trusting them more and more again each day. I let them explore eachothers play-pens (they each have their own now for the time being) and there was no fight! They shared some carrot too. So far so good. I have been having their play time be together now for the past week or so I may do it for another couple of weeks and then maybe try combining the play-pens possibly for a bit but keeping the litter boxes separate. What do you guys think?

 

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

*binky not hunky haha

 

[Imbrium]

I'm so glad things have been getting better! Honestly, I would set aside a long chunk of time (your day off or w/e) where a human can be in the room with them (or at least within earshot/seconds away) and give them a marathon session where they spend all day together in whatever space they'll be living in together once they're re-bonded. If they make it through that without a single fight, call it official. When you move 'em back in together, I wouldn't hedge with some stuff separate, other stuff shared, etc. - just go back to 'business as usual' and let them forget all about their feud .

 

[Marie_Chubbers_Willow]

That sounds like a good plan! They had 4 hours out at one point being together the whole time actually. Chubbers mounted willow and she actually didn’t fight back which is a really good sign. I don’t want to move too fast though I guess I don’t know when they are good to go so to speak.

 

[Imbrium]

As I suggested in my last post, your rabbits are probably bonded... don't worry about moving too fast; given how much time has passed, feel free to put them together. Keep an eye out for signs of fighting when you're not around (just in case) like tufts of fur that have been pulled out... but as long as there aren't any indications of a problem, they're almost certainly fully bonded .