Help! Diagnose this young rabbit

[cornflakes]

Thanks, I think I'm close to Camp Humphreys. Is that in Pyeongtaek, South Korea? If it is, I'd be about 45 minutes away by bus. I'm located in city called Anseong.

Any help in finding him help or long-term housing and care would be good. If I can't help him and he's not getting better, I'll definitely like to send him somewhere where he can get a clean place to live and daily care.

Today is Sunday, I'm going into my work place again to see him now in a few minutes and give him his meds.

 

[JBun]

That would be so great if you could get a US vet experienced with rabbits, to take a look at the dad bun. I hope it works out. I don't know if you caught my previous post, but I mentioned that if you see the vet again, you may want to ask for a different kind of eye ointment, with a different antibiotic in it. Maybe it will be more effective against this bacteria.

 

[cornflakes]

Yes, I read that terramycin seemed to be quite popular for rabbit eye infections like conjunctivitis....but the good news is terramycin has polymixin B sulfate which is what the current ointment im using has. But all other ingredients are different.

I'll be upping his baytril to 2 tablets per day (2 15mg tablets...) starting on Monday.

 

[JBun]

If you can find terramycin eye ointment, it's ok to use. Here in the US it's sold otc for livestock. The increased baytril dosage should help too. Hopefully you'll start seeing some improvement.

 

[tonyshuman]

You could probably also use a saline solution that you have boiled and then let cool to room temperature. The saline solution for eyes is similar to the stuff you use in a neti pot. You could make it by mixing 9 grams salt (the kind without iodine added if you can find it) in 1000mL water, then boil this. Keep it covered while it cools, and then you can put it in the eye. That *should* be ok. I am not guaranteeing it but in this situation it seems like there's not much other option.

I think you are thinking about the welfare of the rabbit in a very responsible way. It is true that sometimes we just don't have the resources we need to treat our pets. The higher dose of Baytril should help, but it's hard to say. He should get better after 3-5 days of treatment with the antibiotic. The ointment is probably not doing a lot, with all that pus in there.

I know that to take rabbits to Canada, there is a quarantine period. We had a member move from Great Britain to Canada and her rabbits had to be in quarantine for at least 2 weeks, even though they were in perfect health. The stress of quarantine was pretty hard on one of them. I doubt you'd be able to take him into the country in his condition. I don't know how much longer you are living in Korea, but it will take at least 14 days for the Baytril to totally treat the infection, and that's in a best case scenario. It is possible that Baytril isn't the right medicine and/or there's something really wrong that led to the infection (tooth roots), and that would mean more time and different procedures, like surgery, which just may not be an option for you. This is really hard. It's so sad to see him suffering from something that a vet here could treat easily, but we are very lucky in the states and Canada and some other countries to have great vet care available that isn't possible around the world. I would be very frustrated too.

I personally would look long-term. Will he be healthy by the time you leave? If he's healthy, can you and he handle all of the difficult paperwork and hassle of customs, travel, and quarantine? If he has to stay in Korea, is there someone who can take care of him when you leave? It may be better to have him euthanized rather than suffer with this condition, especially if there is nowhere for him to go. I have seen some gruesome eye infection pictures, and Dad bun has a very serious infection. I am concerned that if it doesn't improve he will lose the eye shortly. It is probably very painful. I really hope that the Baytril will help him improve soon. In the meantime look into what it would require to bring him home, and if that doesn't look possible look for a home for him in Korea. If you can find a home, maybe they will have better connections in the vet world.

 

[cornflakes]

Yeah, I don't understand why it got worse.

The actual eye itself didn't look infected or bad. There was no cloudiness or any redness of the eyeball itself. It was only that wound/lump under his eye that seemed to produce all this discharge. It stayed that way for about 9 days.
Then all of a sudden the next day his eye was completely shut because of more white discharge that was now coming seemingly from a new swelling above the eye...so i still think that the shut eye is only shut because there's so much discharge that it's kinda dried up and glued the eyelids together, but I don't think there's actually anything wrong with his eye initially.

Not sure what that new lump was from...it kinda looks like a mosquito bite or something because there is a concentrated redness that resembles a bite.

I just wish there was a way i could wash out the discharge/pus dried up cuz I really didn't think there was anything wrong with his actual eye.

Do you think that I should get a 2nd person to help me wrap him up in a towel and force wash that eye out?? It'll probably make him go absolutely crazy and nuts but how important is it to wash out crusted/dried up white discharge? Will that pus/discharge melt on its own or will it stay completely dried like crazy glue??

I have no idea what is better or worse...to leave the eye alone shut by the discharge or risk washing it out causing him immense pain and stress and probably hurting the eye even more? But if he's going to lose that eye anyways, then shouldn't I just do it?

 

[LilyPatchFarm]

Have been following this silently for some time, and just needed to say you are my hero. You are doing some amazing work with them! Thanks for trying so very hard, I know it must be insanely frustrating.

Just a thought, but that new bump may be fly strike. In open wounds in areas where there are flys... they lay their eggs in the wound and it swells up and covers the eggs, then the maggots hatch and eat all the flesh around the wound. Its not a pretty sight...

 

[cornflakes]

Thanks Lily. I hope that's not the case.
It seemed like his eye was getting better until suddenly a huge swelling appearing on the top part of the eyelid and now it's swollen shut with so much white discharge.

The open wound though was on the skin just below his eye, so not sure why the swelling above the eye started.

Just before I left work, I decided to try something different since the eye ointment hasn't seemed to do anything. I diluted the ointment in a small bit of warm water. Then I sucked up the water with the feeding syringe and squirted at his eye. I did this about 4 times with a full syringe...he didn't like it of course and ran for his life....but since his eye is shut closed, he can't see it coming from his blind side so I got in 4 good squirts....i'm hoping the water or wetness of it will help wash off or loosen the dry white pus that is sealing his eye shut.

He's also not eating much either ever since I started the enrofloxacin treatment. I left some food at 9am and by 4pm the food was hardly touched or eaten if it all. His poop around the pen is once again looking smaller and rounder....hopefully this won't be another problem.

 

[cornflakes]

By the way....when talking about fly strike...are you talking about those common household black flies? Or does fly strike come from fleas? It's just those common black flies we see all the time....i've been killing as many as I can each day and i stuck up 3 or 4 strips of those fly catching sticky strips.

 

[cornflakes]

Just spoke to another english speaking vet on the phone....1.5 hours away from me but at least can get some info. He said that the rabbit need anti-inflammatory meds (since his upper eyelid is now swollen). Nobody ever mentioned this before. Do you think dad rabbit needs anti-inflammatory medicine??? He said something like meglumine, or meloxicam is used.

Once again, I can't transport him to an animal hospital without a car. My local vet is way too small, they don't have any expertise for rabbits. I'm looking at 45 to 1 hour drive to get to a major city and find a bigger hospital that treats rabbits.

He also told me that the rabbit needs pain killers because I told him how sensitive he is now to me touching his eye when trying to apply the ointment. How on earth do i give a rabbit pain killers? I don't think that's in the baytril is it? The original antibiotic I was given (that had amoxicillin in it) also had ibuprofen and some other stuff for pain killer. Is there some way to give him a painkiller while giving him his baytril tabs?

 

[JBun]

Originally anti inflammatories really weren't needed as the wound didn't look swollen or painful, and the dad bun was eating and acting normally. I think it would be good to give them to him now. You want metacam(meloxicam). It's an anti inflammatory, and will provide pain relief. Dosage is 0.1-0.2mg/kg, but you could go up to 0.6mg/kg, and it is usually given once a day, but can be given twice a day if needed. The easiest way to give it is in a sweet suspension liquid. It could be that the dad bun is eating less, because of his wound now being painful. Hopefully you can get some metacam, and it will help him start eating better.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm

If you are interested in Kaleys(kmaben) offer of an army vet, you may want to try sending her a pm to let her know.

 

[cornflakes]

Just got in this morning and now the dad rabbit will NOT EAT ANYTHING.
I cannot give him his baytril tablets anymore. Even with a banana slice or I even tried sweetened fruit jelly/sauce (like apple sauce), he won't even try it...he just runs away.

I cannot get meloxacam or any anti-inflammatory because even if i got it, there'd be no way to administer it to him.

The only option left now is for someone to hopefully come and adopt him or pick him up. If not, I'm afraid he'll just die. If he won't eat, then there's nothing I can do. It seems that every few days or so, there's a new issue and another medicine I have to get and another and another and nothing is actually working.

Someone needs to adopt him or pick him up to save his life. I put out ads for him online hopefully for anyone who might want him but I doubt anyone will with him being sick and all and needing medical exams, tests, and drugs.

I spoke with another english vet last night and same talk.....'you have to bring him in so i can see him' blah blah blah the same stuff that I CANT DO because I don't have a car. I used to drive 80,000 km a year back home in Canada and I'd do everything by car....this adds to the frustration because a simple thing like not having a car is the only thing that stands between him living and dying.

I'm out of options so it appears

He will get no meds and no more eye ointment because he won't eat and he won't let me come near him (not to mention his eye is shut anyways so i cant get any ointment in his eye even if i had one that works).

We can only just pray for a miracle now.....

 

[Ilovemyrabbit]

Would the vet be willing to drive to you to see the dad rabbit? Or would a friend with a car be willing to take him to the vet for you?

I'm going to start praying for the dad rabbit and you.

 

[JBun]

I'm so sorry this isn't working out and that he's getting worse. I'm afraid that he's at the point where he is going to take a lot more medical care and nursing. If you continue on, he would need hand feeding several times a day. If this isn't something you are going to be able to do, it might be kindest to have him pts, to spare him anymore suffering. If you still want to try, get the metacam It needs to be compounded in a liquid, so that you can syringe it into the corner of his mouth. If he has only stopped eating because of eye pain, the metacam may help him start eating again on his own. Otherwise he would need syringe feeding. If the vet there has Oxbow critical care herbivore food mix, then that is what you use to syringe feed. You can also use plain canned pumpkin(with no spices and nothing but pumpkin in the can) to syringe feed with. You would also need to syringe water so he doesn't dehydrate. Syringing needs to be done slowly too, giving a chance to chew and swallow, so the liquid isn't aspirated. It's a lot of work to hand feed a rabbit, and can be difficult to get them to cooperate, but it is possible if you want to try it. You would also need to change his antibiotic med, since he won't eat. You would need the cipro if it can be syringe fed, or he would need injections. You could also crush up the baytril tablets into a powder and mix it with a small amount of something smooth enough to administer in a syringe without clogging it, into his mouth. The canned pumpkin would work, or mushed banana might if it's smooth enough.

You've tried your best with him, especially considering the circumstances you are in. Whatever you decide will be the best thing for him.

 

[tonyshuman]

This is really rough. If you could get a hold of him and keep him still, you could use a washcloth with warm water on the eye to try to de-gunk it. However it sounds like he's so upset that holding him down to do so, or to give meds, would really stress him out. It is possible that de-gunking the eye would start to make him feel better so if you managed to keep him still for 5 min, he'd let you hold on for a few more minutes. Is there a rabbit rescue that might be able to help?

 

[cornflakes]

I was looking for a rabbit rescue but things like that in korea are so rare....they really don't care much for rabbits as rabbits are still eaten here in stews and not regarded anywhere as close to a dog or cat. Vets that I've talked to just laugh at me (not in a mean way but as in just humorous news to them) when I ask if there might be any service that can come to my place and pick up the rabbit.

The problem with the antibiotics is that it kills his appetite completely!!! Baytril is doing the same thing amoxicillin was doing. After just 4 tablets of baytril, he's completely stopped eating, pooping, and peeing (well he peed a lot when I was trying to catch him with a blanket). He will not accept the banana anymore, he wont eat his favourite foods like carrot pieces and this yummy fruit/veggie pellet treat i used to give him (he just loved that but now he doesn't even touch it).

The pain in his eye is definitely not what's causing him to stop eating because he was eating well even with the giant swollen shut eye. It's the antibiotic. Yesterday was the first day I gave him 2 tablets in a day (once the morning and once in the afternoon), and today he completely stopped eating. I have to stop giving him the antibiotic now just so that he can get his appetite back....it's a no win situation. Maybe what I'll do is stop the meds and see if he'll start eating again in a couple days. Then slowly reintroduce the baytril back into the banana...maybe only once a day.

I stopped with the eye ointment. I spent about 10 minutes trying to catch him with a wool blanket....he was running around scared all over the place...i didn't want to grab him roughly but I think if i just do it roughly, I can catch him prety easily and quickly....but I can tell he was so stressed. I finally caught him and he gave a little struggle but then when I picked him up and kinda sat him on my knee he stopped....i tried to put the syringe into his mouth but the syringe is too short and fat....he resisted and even tried to paw it out of the way.....the baytril inside was crushed up and mixed in a sweet fruit jelly liquid...i thought that would help but he completely rejected it...i tried to put it in his mouth but i dont think he got much or any of it...probably just spilled over on to his chin or fur coat.

I'm restraining myself as much as possible but i'm literally over the edge now. I just want to cuss left right and center because of a stupid like not having a "ride" is the only thing that keeps him from getting treated or suffering and dying.

What do i do now? How do I get him to eat?? Is the only way to grab him, force feed him? If I don't,he'll probably go into GI stasis and die anyways right?

An injection would have been better as it would not affect his appetite at all! But no car = no visit to the vet.

I can't even take him to the vet to get put down. He's just going to have to sit there and hope a miracle happens.

 

[JBun]

I'm frustrated for you as well. He looked like he was doing so well after the first week. It wasn't better, but it wasn't worse. All I can think of to try at this point is changing the antibiotic and seeing if a different one causes less of a lack of appetite. You could try the cipro, or if you want to learn how to give injections, you could try that, but it could be really hard to do cause you have to get the dad bun to hold still long enough to inject the med. Probiotics might help too.

If he's not eating and it's been more than 24 hours, you have to get him to eat. If he won't he'll go into GI stasis, if he hasn't already. Force feeding with a syringe is necessary when a rabbit stops eating for too long. I've had to do it with my own rabbits. They don't like it but it's for their own good and they get over it eventually. If you can manage to just hold him securely between you legs and with a hand cupping the back of his neck/head, try that. Or you can try burrito wrapping in a towel. You could also flush his eye and put the med on it, at this point too. You could maybe try just a regular triple antibiotic ointment(with no pain relief added), since his eyes shut, it won't get in the eye anyways. Maybe a different one will be more effective.

I don't know what else to tell you. Even here in the US it can be hard to treat rabbits. Better medical care is available, but rabbits are just very prone to having problems sometimes, and it can be hard to get the rabbit better. I've lost a few rabbits to medical problems that the meds just didn't help clear up. You've done your best with this bun, and that's all you can really do.

 

[cornflakes]

Yes, thanks so much for your support. I'm deeply appreciative of people like you and everyone on this site who has tried to offer their help.
I'm currently and actively posting this story and link to other major sites in Korea to try and find someone with a car who can help me get him to a hospital ASAP.

Hopefully a good samaritan will respond to me soon. It's the last ditch effort. I need someone to drive me to a hospital or I need to find a way to rent a car....i was even considering buying a used car but i think that will take too long (the research, paper work, etc).

I will stop giving him the antibiotic to let him regain his appetitie and eat again. I'd rather face the eye infection problem than GI STASIS.

 

[PaGal]

I am so sorry things are so difficult for both you and the bun. I wish it were possible to ship you the items that you could use such as probiotics. I'll be keeping the two of you in my thoughts and hoping that someone will be kind enough to help you out.

 

[cornflakes]

Ok update, this morning i got him some fresh green lettuce (romaine type) and he ate some of it so that's a good sign. However, I stopped giving him antibiotics and eye ointment. I'm just trying to get him back to eating again.

I talked with a lot more vets and my coworker to help me find out other options like renting a car here in korea or even buying a used one.

The renting a car option is out the window. It requires me to have an international or korean DL. My cdn DL is not enough. I'd have to go through this long process of getting documents and travelling to other cities to get the application etc. It'll take 1-2 weeks minimum. Then I could rent a car but that would run me up $100 a day or so + insurance.

Nobody thus far has responded to my request for giving me a ride to the hospital (this hospital is about 1 hour drive from where I live). I've called other local clinics and they don't treat rabbits. This is why I can't just take a taxi and go to a hospital...the only hospital I can go is over an hour away.

I called the place which is: http://www.acris-ah.co.kr/index.html
and they told me that if I wanted to 'hospitalize' the rabbit and keep him there for a few days, it'll cost me $80 per day which includes all medicine/injections. They said normal time frame is he should stay for about 7 days. This means $560 dollars give or take. There isn't even a guarantee if he'll live....we don't know what stage he's at...and they said there's no refund or % returned to me if he stayed there for 3 or 4 days and then died. I'd still be out 400 bucks.

But I feel like his best chance to recover would be to go to the hospital, stay there a couple days at least, get all the necessary shots and medicines, and then take him back home with me (not my workplace) and try to finish the rest on my own.

I would want him to stay a full 7 days there but that's a lot of money to pay, and he's not even my rabbit. I'm just doing the good samaritan thing and trying to help him out.

Since this is pretty much the end of the line, I'm just going to try and ask anyways, but at this point, I would welcome any DONATIONS to help me cover the cost to hospitalize him! I'll probably still eat the bulk of the costs, but if some people could pitch in anything, it would help a lot. I hate asking for anything and some ppl in the past even offered to donate some funds to me a few months back for the LUCKY STAR situation, but I kindly declined because it was just for food that I felt I could easily pay for.

Now that I'm looking at hospitalization as the only option left and it's coming out to this amount that I never expected I'd ever even CONSIDER paying for a rabbit that I don't even own.....i just have to try and ask. Of course I'll take pics and video and update everyone on his situation and recovery (ask the hospital to take a pic of him everyday) and then when I pick him up, continue the rest.

But some part of me says, "Why are you even considering doing this? Why would you go and spend so much money on rabbits that aren't even yours?" Is it really that easy to just turn my back on a situation I know I can HELP even if it's costing me a lot? I hate that I'm so compassionate...it's really my weakness.

I don't even know if I'm allowed to ask for donations....it might be illegal or against the TOS? I apologize if it is. I'm going to just ask at all the forums I've shared this with and see what happens. I want to take him as soon as possible but I might have to wait for the weekend cuz maybe I can get at least ONE ride (on the way to the big city) by then.

My Paypal is: [email protected]
Anything will be helpful. There aren't any other options left that I can think of. I've tried everything possible...situation just keeps getting worse. Sorry that it has come to this where I'm asking for donations.....