BlueGiants
Well-Known Member
Yes, I saw brown/black barring on the front legs, very black ears and unusualblack shading on the loinon the third generation out (whites bred back to Sandy).
Harlequin Flemish
- Thread starter weedflemishgiants
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weedflemishgiants
Well-Known Member
Okay good to watch for. Unfortunately now there is some dispute among the rest of us as to who has what. We know one guy up north claims he imported contis and his friend back east also makes the same claim. But I checked the website for a guy in the mid west who imported contis which are actually good looking animals and they look NOTHING at all like the supposed contis up north here. So hey- the differences are so extreme I don't think these guys all have contis. I know they SAY they are contis but man contis must come in a huge array of shapes and sizes then.
The contis I saw were way way over 20 lbs- closer to 30 actually and resembled Flemish but not as strongly as those contis in the midwest, the largest of which is only standard weight of 20. 5 lbs.
Are we sure we are all talking about the same rabbit breed here? This is WEIRD. I am thinking they are not all contis. I think some of them are German or British Giants which ARE huge.
The contis I saw were way way over 20 lbs- closer to 30 actually and resembled Flemish but not as strongly as those contis in the midwest, the largest of which is only standard weight of 20. 5 lbs.
Are we sure we are all talking about the same rabbit breed here? This is WEIRD. I am thinking they are not all contis. I think some of them are German or British Giants which ARE huge.
BlueGiants
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I think what some people call a Continental and what the British Standard defines as a Continental might be different. The Conti's I saw were from Holland. (I was told there are a lot of restrictions on exporting Conti's out of the UK.)
I've never seen barring on any of the true bred Continentals (in any of the photo's I've seen).
I've never seen barring on any of the true bred Continentals (in any of the photo's I've seen).
weedflemishgiants
Well-Known Member
The true contis I have seen are gorgeous.
Let me go to HOlland and see what they are calling conties and then britain. I have links to both on my web.
Let me go to HOlland and see what they are calling conties and then britain. I have links to both on my web.
weedflemishgiants
Well-Known Member
Wow- looking at the europe pictures-
the first thing that shocks me are the ears. It also frightens me as I have been seeing those ears pop up here and especially in the Washington rabbits. So far I have only seen those ears in whites though.
Theother are the colors- way off from ours especially their standard color of opal.
I wonder if the opals you have been seeing are actually contis.
the first thing that shocks me are the ears. It also frightens me as I have been seeing those ears pop up here and especially in the Washington rabbits. So far I have only seen those ears in whites though.
Theother are the colors- way off from ours especially their standard color of opal.
I wonder if the opals you have been seeing are actually contis.
weedflemishgiants
Well-Known Member
Yeah. both the holland site and british site for continentals-
the ears are really really funky. The heads don't fit the ears either. And the ears kind of flare out half way up and curve on the backs. Not good ears for flemish.
Then looking at what I think is called steel over there- do you realise that it is choc. brown cast? When I looked at the winning rabbits, the dark steels is what I would call them had solid color muzzles that were choc. brown. They also had choc. brown on the feet.
Then when I compared top lines- I know people are telling me these rabbits haverise but it is not mandolin shaped. Not at all. The rise is way too level and I can't tell from the pictures for sure but it is definately starting earlier than our rises.
Much closer to the shoulders than ours, but that might be due to the bulkiness in front. I can't tell. And then to make matters worse, it looks like it starts to flatten too soon. The type is really really not the same at least as far as topline goes. Not at all.
It also looks like they have shorter clunkier legs. But in show stance, who can know?
I have not found a good picture of an opal conti yet.
the ears are really really funky. The heads don't fit the ears either. And the ears kind of flare out half way up and curve on the backs. Not good ears for flemish.
Then looking at what I think is called steel over there- do you realise that it is choc. brown cast? When I looked at the winning rabbits, the dark steels is what I would call them had solid color muzzles that were choc. brown. They also had choc. brown on the feet.
Then when I compared top lines- I know people are telling me these rabbits haverise but it is not mandolin shaped. Not at all. The rise is way too level and I can't tell from the pictures for sure but it is definately starting earlier than our rises.
Much closer to the shoulders than ours, but that might be due to the bulkiness in front. I can't tell. And then to make matters worse, it looks like it starts to flatten too soon. The type is really really not the same at least as far as topline goes. Not at all.
It also looks like they have shorter clunkier legs. But in show stance, who can know?
I have not found a good picture of an opal conti yet.
BlueGiants
Well-Known Member
They do show them sitting up as opposed to our position. Yeah, the ears are very different. The German Giants have to have a minimum ear WIDTH... almost 6 inches across! Quite a difference.
Flemish Guy
Member
Reading about these crossings and the color issues makes me wonder what is going to become of Flemish Giants, my first response was to start breeding more to make more Flemish available because I know my lines are clean and if there is a question I will not breed that rabbit for any reason. But my problem is that I really do get attached to these bunnies and I want them to go to a home where they are not neglected and are given the care they need and deserve. I have heard of many instances of these rabbits getting sore hocks or dying from the heat or a breeder just not need the rabbit any longer and destroying a healthy animal. I just feel I owe these animals something if I am the reason they are brought into this world. I just hope that these crossings dont eventually bring an end to these wonderful animals.
weedflemishgiants
Well-Known Member
Nothing is going to happen to the Flemish. this has all happened before when they were crossed to make bigger E Lops in France, and crossed to be foundational for almost ALL the meat breeds. And remember the Flemish Rex? Now an extinct variety? Bred to make bigger better fur coats?
The Flemish will be fine because there ARE so many breeders working to keep their lines clean. I know of eight breeders right now that will not allow crossings in their barn.
As far as selling your babies- you need to give it a try. for one thing you want to find other people who will love the breed and keep it going, and secondly, you don't want to end up with too many rabbits cause that is not good for them.
Try to relax. You can screen your buyers and you can ear tag your rabbits as a pet and you can sell it without a pedigree- you can offer discounts if the buyer proves they neutered or spayed the rabbit- that way you know they didn' t breed it. Lots of things you can do.
You can also be like me and charge a fortune- my new thing- cause that way you know they are really going to care for their investment.
The Flemish will be fine because there ARE so many breeders working to keep their lines clean. I know of eight breeders right now that will not allow crossings in their barn.
As far as selling your babies- you need to give it a try. for one thing you want to find other people who will love the breed and keep it going, and secondly, you don't want to end up with too many rabbits cause that is not good for them.
Try to relax. You can screen your buyers and you can ear tag your rabbits as a pet and you can sell it without a pedigree- you can offer discounts if the buyer proves they neutered or spayed the rabbit- that way you know they didn' t breed it. Lots of things you can do.
You can also be like me and charge a fortune- my new thing- cause that way you know they are really going to care for their investment.
BlueGiants
Well-Known Member
Ido not think anything is going to happen to the Flemish breed. There are a LOT more than 8 breeders that care about where their rabbits come from and where they are going. (I'd say the majority of Flemish Breeders are very conscientious and dedicated to the breed.)
And yes, the breed has been through this before. Conti's were introduced back in the 60's and crossed into a lot of lines.Some breeders, to this day, get "throw backs" to the old style body type and colors. The Flemish rexwas promoted "back in the day". Some breeders still see an occasional rex fur type. Beverens and Americans were crossed in to improve the blue color... but wrecked havoc with the size and type! (And you can argue that the Flemish influenced a lot of other breeds, both good and bad!) That's why we have a strict standard that judges adhere to and breeders use as the ultimate guide.
And yes, the breed has been through this before. Conti's were introduced back in the 60's and crossed into a lot of lines.Some breeders, to this day, get "throw backs" to the old style body type and colors. The Flemish rexwas promoted "back in the day". Some breeders still see an occasional rex fur type. Beverens and Americans were crossed in to improve the blue color... but wrecked havoc with the size and type! (And you can argue that the Flemish influenced a lot of other breeds, both good and bad!) That's why we have a strict standard that judges adhere to and breeders use as the ultimate guide.
gentle giants
Well-Known Member
I think probably all breeds go through this sort of thing at one time or another. Flemish are really popular around here as pets, most people don't have a clue as far as type. I haven't bred in two years, and I still have people occasionally contact me looking for pet Flemish. I have heard there is someone just a few miles from me that is now breeding Flemish, and evidently a lot of them becuase they have business cards out in the feed store. It makes me cringe, I have thought about just going out there and looking around to see what they have, but I'm afraid of whatI might find.
Oh, and BlueGiants--I would never cross Flemmies with any other breed, but I would still love to get my hands on one of those Flemish-Conti crosses, just for a pet. I bet they are impressive size-wise!
Oh, and BlueGiants--I would never cross Flemmies with any other breed, but I would still love to get my hands on one of those Flemish-Conti crosses, just for a pet. I bet they are impressive size-wise!
