Fred (RIP baby) and my other buns

[The-Family-O]

Fred:
- Location: Otisville, NY

- Description (Breed, color., weight): I believe he was a mini satin, white, I'm guessing about 4/5 lbs.

- Age: unknown, but if I had to guess not more than 2

- spayed/neutered? no

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? as of when I had cleaned his cage, they looked normal
- When did they last use their litterbox? he must have last used his litter box about 4-5 hours before he passed because his poops were really dry
- Any unusual behavior? hiding, i think he was grinding his teeth, very meloncholy, just wanted to stay near daddy

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before? not to my vet, and not to my knowledge. when i adopted him they didn't say

- Diet - what does your bunny eat? carrots, pellets, timothy/grass mix hay, extremely small snippet of parsley. i had given him the baked pine cones, but when i noticed his poops were getting yucky i took them away and he was fine.
- when and what did s/he eat last? last he would have eaten was saturday night, because when i came home sunday night he still hadn't touched his carrot, hay, water, or pellets

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally? he wasn't hopping...

- any weight loss? i don't think so

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach? no

- has the rabbit been outdoors? definitely not


He had what appeared to be like pasty tears (only way I can really describe it). He had this brownish wetness around his nose and when I lifted him up you could feel a raspy rattle, but it sounded and felt so bad. It almost sounded like when someone has bronchitis and they cough, it's that wet raspy rattle sound. there was no sign of blood.
When I called to talk to the person I had asked to take care of them, he told me that he had been acting fine all saturday. he had eaten friday night, saturday morning and night, but when he went in sunday, fred hid. he said he assumed he was just scared. I gave him specific instructions, and pointed out to him that they all act a certain way (fred never ever hid, he always wanted attention and always wanted out, i told him that) how my rabbits normally act. if they deviate from it to call me immediately. I know I'm probably grasping at straws, but I think I need someone to blame, and he's going to be it for the time being. I know that seems unfair, but I was very specific for a reason.


I do have other rabbits: Reeses, Oreo, and Pepper Ann. I have disinfected around them, and tonight my husband is going to help me take apart their cages (seperately) and disinfect them as well as all their dishes, water bottles, litter pans and hide-aways. I've mandated a hand washing/sanitation between feeding, water and petting until further notice, and only my husband and i are to really do any of that.

I've also decided its best to keep my dog and cat away from the rabbits, and vice versa, until I can figure out what is going on.

Pepper Ann and Reeses seem to be alright. Oreo seems ok too, but just his butt, so here's another:

Oreo:
- Location: Otisville, NY

- Description (Breed, color., weight): lionhead, white/grey/black, not more than 4 lbs

- Age: 3

- spayed/neutered? I was told he was

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? yes
- When did they last use their litterbox? i just saw him use it an hour ago
- Any unusual behavior? not really

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before? yes he has, but i don't know about being sick

- Diet - what does your bunny eat? carrots, pellets, timothy/grass mix hay, very small bits of parsley, a smidgen of banana once a week
- when and what did s/he eat last? this morning

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally? yes, well he runs, not so much hops. he's an odd one. he hops when he is out, or when he wants to get onto something

- any weight loss? no

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach? no

- has the rabbit been outdoors? definitely not

I'm mostly concerned about the poop that sticks to his butt. When I got him she told me that she trimmed his booty to keep the poo from sticking. I check his bum every day, and as of last week he hasn't really been cleaning his butt. I'm not sure if it's because he tries to clean the best he can or what. he is VERY furry and he likes to sit in his litter pan (for whatever reason).

Suggestions? Advice? Anything?

*sigh* this has been such a rough day... and it's not about to get easier any time soon....:cry2

Thank you all very much, you have all been very nice and very helpful.

 

[pla725]

Sorry about Fred. Sounds like a serious URI to me. When rabbits grind their teeth alot it means they are in pain.

As for Oreo it is probably related to diet. Perhaps he might be a bit overweight. Probably why he can't clean himself well. I don't give my rabbits pellets because of problems with overweight, bladder sludge and poppy butt. I give greens and hay.

 

[Orchid]

My heart is with you Sam. I know how it feels

 

[tonyshuman]

I think the raspy rattle cough is indicative of pneumonia, or some other lower respiratory infection. The eyes also sound like an upper respiratory infection. It's possible he had an upper respiratory infection that progressed farther down in the lungs and that's what caused his death.

These infections are usually caused by bacteria carried in the bunnies at all times, so you can't really do much to prevent bunnies from getting them. The bacteria are present, and the immune system keeps them in check so you don't have an actual infection. If the bunny gets sick or stressed out, the immune system gets weak, and then they can get sick by one of the pathogens already present. Pasturella is one of those pathogens. There's really nothing you can do to keep the other guys from catching what he had because they already have the bug in their system.

I too wonder if Oreo's poopy bum is weight/food related. Lionheads have a hard time cleaning their bums, and it sounds like Oreo gets a lot of carbohydrates in his diet, no?

I am so sorry about Fred.

 

[The-Family-O]

tonyshuman wrote:

I think the raspy rattle cough is indicative of pneumonia, or some other lower respiratory infection. The eyes also sound like an upper respiratory infection. It's possible he had an upper respiratory infection that progressed farther down in the lungs and that's what caused his death.

These infections are usually caused by bacteria carried in the bunnies at all times, so you can't really do much to prevent bunnies from getting them. The bacteria are present, and the immune system keeps them in check so you don't have an actual infection. If the bunny gets sick or stressed out, the immune system gets weak, and then they can get sick by one of the pathogens already present. Pasturella is one of those pathogens. There's really nothing you can do to keep the other guys from catching what he had because they already have the bug in their system.

I too wonder if Oreo's poopy bum is weight/food related. Lionheads have a hard time cleaning their bums, and it sounds like Oreo gets a lot of carbohydrates in his diet, no?

I am so sorry about Fred.

Is there anything you can do to help the bacteria not get so bad that it makes them sick?

No, I mean Oreo eats hay a lot, but there's not a lot of carbs in the pellets. I just recently noticed that I have been giving them a tablespoon too much of the pellets, so we're trying to cut back on that. The banana is a pinch once a week, and he only nibbles on the carrot (which I cut into 1" sections). Pepper Ann likes the carrot more than Oreo.

Thank you.

 

[Maureen Las]

I am sorry about Fred..

Sometimes a respiratory infection can really come on quickly. I had an olderbun (RIP Babette :tears2 who would seem fine 1 day and then the next would be making hacking sounds and have difficulty with respirations. i would immediately get her on an antibiotic (that day )

Ithink that her immune system was weak because of her age.

Baytril was effective for the first few episodes but in time her body built up resistance to it.

she was on azithromycin for awhile but my stubborn vet underdosed her and it really did not help.

Iput her on bicillin myself (with the help of Randy ) and that really cleared up the infection.

When she had these episodes she would totally stop eating and drinking but once the antibiotics kicked him she would return back to her normal sweet self.
I just think that it is important to watch the other buns and catch the infection as fast as you can and get treatment for it immediately.


Sanitizing and cleaning everything is the way to go ...

It is a shame that you were gone when Fred got sick (really nasty luck) butI really doubt that the pet sitter was at fault here .

:bigtears:RIP littly Freddy ; you were loved !

 

[Maureen Las]

Poopy butt is fairly common in long haired breeds because it is easier for poop tostick in the long hair. . Cut the pellets down and push hay and it really should help firm up her poops.

I don't know if others do this but would it be possible to clip her hair shorter around her butt?

 

[The-Family-O]

Update on Fred's necropsy:

From what the vet could tell, it would seem that Fred had pneumonia, but on top of that he wasn't neutered properly and had an infection (remember I said he wasn't? That was because he had 2 large 'testicles', they weren't actually, and the previous owner never mentioned him being neutered when I asked).

So basically, he had an underlying infection, and the pneumonia is what ended up killing him. By the time we got home Sunday night there was literally nothing we could have done, as his sickness had gotten too bad.

He said to just make sure to disinfect the room(s), and the other cages, etc.; which we have done, and that he doesn't think I should worry, and he'll be here Saturday...

Let me say, it doesn't make it any easier...:tears2:

 

[tonyshuman]

Wow, that's really too bad. I'm sorry the previous owner didn't tell you about the neuter surgery and its complications. I hope the fact that you did everything you could for him will make it easier, and that you couldn't have known about the infection based on what the previous owners told you.