Do you believe in Cesar Milans ways of dog training?

Discussion in 'Let Your Hare Down' started by 1357bunnylover, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. Dec 5, 2012 #21

    whitelop

    whitelop

    whitelop

    Morgan

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    Since this all started with my dog, I feel I should weigh in a little. I don't really know how I feel about Cesar. I've never really watched the show and I didn't train my dog the way that he trains dogs, nor have I ever trained a dog like that. Honestly, I can't get passed his tiny little attitude filled body to watch that show.
    I think that his methods work for some dogs and some personalities. But I think that it depends on different dogs needing different training methods. My mom loves that guy, she tries to teach her chihauhauh the way he does and the dog gets scared and cowers away. It doesn't work on him.
    It would also not work on my dog. He is a little skittish, because he came from my constantly yelling FIL. He is a dingo, so he has a high prey drive. He also herds our chickens and cats, but never my son or rabbit. He listens like there is no tomorrow, he responds to just my snapping. I can say his name one time when he's out and he'll come back to me. He was never aggressive until the other evening when he snapped. But that was an isolated incident and it hasn't happened since, nor do I believe it will happen again. I'm now taking measures to prevent it from ever happening.

    As for Cesar, he is all a matter of opinion. Everyone could go back and forth all day saying they love him or they hate him or they're indifferent.

    I think Lauren said something about dogs forming dog packs when they have to, that is completely true. If you go into the mountains of NC, TN or WV; you'll find all kinds of domestic dogs turned wild, running in packs to survive. We have a close family friend who grew up in the hills of WV and he said that people would just let their dogs loose, and eventually the dogs started to band together and they would terrorize the hills. Like to the point where you would have to kill them, because they would come at you like you where their prey. They went from someones dog to a completely wild animal. I guess that would be evolution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  2. Dec 5, 2012 #22

    MLS

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    Dogs do form roaming packs but their social hierarchy and group dynamic works in a completely different way from actual wolf packs. Just wanted to pipe in on that tidbit :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  3. Dec 5, 2012 #23

    fuzz16

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    fuzz16

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    i want to clarify this....dogs are not wolves. they do not have a pack mentality the same as a wolfs family pack structure. Even wolf dogs have trouble integrating into wolf packs in sanctuararys and normally housed separately.

    my opinion about this glorrified dog trainers who get their own show is kinda "meh". every dog is different and requires different training. toward an abused, afraid dog...he would come off as a threat and send the dog back into himself and make things worse.


    my dog was abused badly..if you touch his belly or chest to fast he yelps still after 1.5 years of being with us. if i try anything dominent with him, he shuts down. he sulks, he wont eat. praise and lots of treats and slow movements and positive reinforcement is what he needs.
    my sisters dog...is a spoiled brat of a mutt...shes a 70lbs dane mix who is hot headed and spacey and has a high prey drive. she doesnt respond to treats or praise, she expects it. she needs a stern tone and if you slip from that she gets worse...3 years old and always been able to take anywhere, she is super friendly. she started killing birds in the yard, then attacked a dog at the dog park when i moved farther away...my 3x a week being around her and working with her a few hours doesnt happen now and she has gotten badly messed up.

    every dog is different (like kids! good way to compare, whoever said it earlier) and needs different techniques.
     
  4. Dec 5, 2012 #24

    Nelsons_Mom

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    The guy who wrote the book on Alpha Theory has been trying to get his book off of the shelf and out of print since then. Because it was a misfounded study and has been disproven by every behaviorist since then.

    But, even if it was accurate (which it isn't) it would be irrelavant anyway because dogs are not wolves! They have been bred for 15000 years to communicate with humans! They can read our facial expressions. They use the same eye movement with the same accuracy as humans do when reading eacg other's faces. They are not wolves! And comparing them to wolves is like trying to learn human social structure by researching a chimpanzee: pointless and extremely misinformed if not idiotic.

    People keep bringing up that wild dogs live in packs. Well, yes they do. however, the social structure of feral dogs is extremely UNLIKE those of wolves. Dog packs have members that come and go without a defined leader like in a wolf pack.

    Dogs don't think we're strange bipedeal hairless wolves. They are born understanding human body language (though lacking human manners, which is why we have to train them.) They want to work with us, not dominate us. especially when "dominance" in behaviorist terms means "in control of resources". Since dogs don't have thumbs, you already win that round if you think you need it.

    Ceasar Milan's methods are physically bullying and psychologically damaging. i will never understand methods that punish behavior instead of rewarding whar you DO want them to do. Theres a reason that zoos and aquariums use positive reinforcement training: it is more reliable and BUILDS trust instead of bullying an animal. It's much more reliable behavior when an animal WANTS to do a "good" behavior rather than being afraid of punishment to not do a "bad" behavior. And, in the case of zoos and aquariums, you're a lot less likely to get bitten when your animal WANTS to work with you. If only someone had told Caesar that.
     
  5. Dec 5, 2012 #25

    Nelsons_Mom

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    And, as people of freewill, you will obviously choose to train your dog however you want. i just hope it's not blindly following someone on tv who makes up crap as he goes and damages dogs for life. Because, to paraphrase Bill Nye, science is always a fact, whether you choose to believe it or not.

    Ps. I wrote this on my phone so sorry for any typos.
     
  6. Dec 7, 2012 #26

    Bassetluv

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    I used to be a big fan of Cesar Millan. I still do think that some of his methods are good, but tend to disagree with many of the dominance theory approaches, especially when it comes to working with an aggressive dog. For instance, my border collie Izzy developed food aggression at a very young age (he had it when I bought him, but - my fault - I didn't properly train him to accept that people can / should be allowed near his food dish). Right now if I were to attempt a dominant approach with Izzy when working with him on food aggression, I can guarantee that it would exacerbate the problem exponentially. A dog with food aggression (or really, any kind of aggression) is reacting out of fear. A fear-based dog needs to be taught how to re-think...to understand that there is no phantom threat to their dish, their toys, the mailman approaching the door, etc. Alpha-roll a dog with fear-based aggression and you will most likely wind up having to get stitches in a limb. The first time Izzy lunged at me over his food dish when he was just a few months old, I did attempt to subdue him by putting him in a passive position - on his side on the floor - and I wound up not only with a scar on my arm that was there for well over a year, but the small trust that Izzy and I had was completely broken, and it took several months of working with him in a more positive, gentle manner to earn it back again on both sides.

    I won't write off Cesar Millan, and he does do some good work with dogs, but I cannot agree with the alpha-roll approach or the 'have dominance over your dog' all the time. To me, a dog/person relationship should be more of a partnership, and just as with raising children, it is a matter of earning respect and trust through positive action, words, and (always positive) corrections when necessary. There definitely is no black-and-white approach either; what works for one dog may not work for another. But in order to have a happy, healthy relationship with a dog in the home, it all has to start with respect, not dominance.
     
  7. Dec 8, 2012 #27

    ani-lover

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    i dont like his methods and i dont like how commercial he has become.
    some people are so impressed and think that he is the only person in the world that can successfully
    train a dog. just my opinion.
     
  8. Dec 8, 2012 #28

    Hyatt101

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    The one thing I do wonder about is that, Cesar can fix the dog's behavior, but then what happens when he leaves? He has to 'train' the owners, so to speak, so that they can dominate over the dog. I do think his methods are very good, and you do need dominance over your dog, definitely. The thing where he does the 'pssst!' noise and jabs the dog in the neck is a good method. Lots of people don't understand that this does not hurt the dog, (if you have a super tiny breed of dog, then do it more gently) but it's a very useful technique. You'll find people who say its abusive to do this, but it is not. It's getting the dog's attention. We have done this with our dogs, and it works. It helps especially if you have a dog that barks a lot, just a little (gentle but still firm) jab and the noise "psssst" works well.
    As for Cesar, he can be a bit too 'commercial' like, but, his methods work. You may not like his personality, but he does successfully teach dogs.
    Just my 2 cents :)
     

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