Do you believe in Cesar Milans ways of dog training?

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1357bunnylover

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After reading a previous post i see some people believe in his dominance theory and some don't. I honestly hate him and would never use any of his methods on my dogs. All the dominance theory and being the 'pack leader' stuff is stupid in my opinion.

What is your opinion on him and his methods of training??
 

Kipcha

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Haha, I gave my 2 cents on this earlier, just wanted to reinforce that I do not believe in his training method at all. The whole alpha theory is outdated and the study that lead to the theory is flawed.
 

Hyatt101

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The training he does is genuine training, but I don't feel like debating about it. You have to research dogs for a long time and know everything about them before you can really come to a conclusion. Some of the stuff he may do to get on T.V. , but most of it is true . Like i said in the other thread, alpha theory does exist clearly in training, but this is a rabbit forum, not a dog forum, so best this discussion be dropped ;)
 

1357bunnylover

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This is called 'Let your hare down' and it says 'talk about anything other than rabbits'. I think it's healthy to have a debate but obviously if people start getting nasty about it i'll delete it. I just like to hear why people do believe in him. You believe in him because you believe in alpha based training, i don't. But there was nothing to get nasty about i just want to see what everyone's opinions on him are. I just thought i'd add, the 'alpha' based training was a test type of thing taken out on wolves, and dogs are not wolves which shows that it can't be true. Dogs are so so different to wolves.
 

JBun

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Charlotte, just so you know, Christina isn't an adult, and I just think that she doesn't understand that it's ok to discuss this kind of thing here, as long as no one is trying to cause an argument, and everyone stays civil.

It's ok Christina. This is a 'let your hare down' thread, so it's ok to talk about non-bunny related things. I don't think anyone is trying to argue here. Just interested in other's opinions :)

I personally like the way Victoria Stilwell from 'It's Me or the Dog' does her dog training, but I'm unsure how that positive reinforcement training could be applied to rabbits, to solve behavior issues. I give my rabbit treats and she still tries to bite me when I reach in her cage because of her cage aggression. Anyone know a good bunny trainer? :)
 

agnesthelion

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I completely agree with Cesar Milans type of training. BUT it has to be applied correctly and to the right dog. It's about knowing each dogs personality. I used this type of method with my rottie and she was a wonderful dog. But, on the flip side, I helped with a greyhound rescue a few years back and those retired dogs were already so timid that any type of firmness could send them into their shell.
The pack leader theory has not been debunked. There are just newer theories and people who disagree and prefer a more positive approach to training. Which is fine. I tend to think people humanize dogs and think that being alpha hurts their feelings. It doesn't. Dogs crave leadership and control (in the right way). Now, I do not support abuse, hitting, yelling, aggressiveness at all. But i have helped train dogs for years, I have attended classes and researched all types of training...including positive approach training. And for the most part I see better results and agree with cesar Milan type training, or pack leader training.
 

Nela

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I see dog training the same way I see raising kids. If you do not discipline children properly and teach them right behavior vs bad behavior, they will just end up with rowdy kids that don't understand authority and will just do anything they want whenever they want. They will start believing they are the 'boss' and I see doings doing the same. Is it out of malice? No, I don't believe so. I just think that if they think they can get away with it, they will keep doing it. Same applies to kids.

Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I find him very good in some instances? Yes. Do I hate him? No. Do I love him? Sometimes, especially if the owners are being particularly stupid.

To be honest though, in the pet world, I have found most people to be very black and white in their ways of thinking so I doubt this discussion will really end up being more than people just stating if they love him or hate him. :)


 

Hyatt101

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I agree, Nela that was a good way to put it! It's just my opinion, but I do think Cesaer Milan's stuff works :)
 

1357bunnylover

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I'm not an adult either lol :) yeah I must admit, I shouldn't have really said i hate Cesar but I do hate some if his techniques like the 'tsst' and the jab/ touch thing at the side of the neck/ ribs. I'm not one of these people that think he's an animal abuser and that, and some if his things I do think are good like the way he he says you train the human and that makes the dog behave better, and how he teaches people that dogs needs walked and they are not humans. Some of his clips make me mad though like one where he picks an adult dachund by the scruff and just hangs him there, and when he nearly killed a dog by over exercising it on a treadmill but some of the things he says does make sense. But I am just someone that does not believe in the alpha and the dominance thing. I have 2 dogs that are very well behaved that were trained through positive reinforcement, but every one is different like everyone brings their kids up different ways and think that you should bring a child up this way and that way, it's the same with dogs really..
 

KittyKatMe

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I also love Victoria Stillwell's training; positive reinforcement and letting the dogs figure out what they're doing wrong. I used it on my own dog. I strongly dislike Cesar Milan. I don't believe in jabbing a dog on the side or being all grabby. I think the dog responds more in fear than respect. I couldn't disagree more with his techniques. I know people will try to tell me otherwise, but that type or training is just not me.
 

1357bunnylover

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I dont think he really knows the dogs body language, in one of his clips this dog is food aggressive and Cesar keeps on getting up closer and closer while the dog is growling, then the dog stops growling a gives him calming signals and signals yo try and diffuse the situation but Cesar just keeps on saying he has not surrendered and after the dog gave him many signals to try and diffuse the situation he then had to defend himself because he felt threatened because Cesar kept on cornering him which then made the dog bite him, this is what you see a lot on his shows.. The dog giving loads of calming signals to Cesar but Cesar just ignores them and then gets bitten. Also, when you see the dog that only a few hours ago was trying to attack other dogs on walks, after Cesar spends time with him the dog is so knackered that when a another dog does go past he has so energy left to bark and try to attack so I don't think he actually helps the dog, he just gets it knackered then once he sees they are really tired he brings them out and videos the dog being 'good' to put on his show.
 

kmaben

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I kind of do and do not understand the "alpha" dog thing. Yes dogs are domesticated but just like cats a house dog can turn feral if left on their own long enough. They can form packs and an "alpha" is elected to lead the pack. So the domesticated dog can have a pack mentality. You as a person thrown in with a bunch of unknown individuals a "leader" type personality will emerge. Your dog in my opinion is no different. Every species has a pecking order of some kind. Does your dog see you as a dog? No his nose wont allow that. But does he have to figure out where he falls in the pecking order, absolutely.
 

audrinasmommy88

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I believe that you do have to show dominance over your dog. Especially in large breeds. We have a rottweiler/beagle mix. The rottweiler in her makes her very protective (which is good in most situations) but the beagle in her makes her extremely stubborn and not listen. We had to establish dominance with her early. With everyone in the house. Even my 3 year old. My daughter was 1 when we got Bailey. We started teaching audrina how to feed her. It started there. We didn't want the dog seeing audrina as inferior. So audrina fed her at meal times, gave her treats. When we started teaching Bailey basic commands, audrina was part of that too. Now, if audrina tells bailey no, or go lay down, she listens to her just as well as she listens to me. If you dont establish this with a dog, they will try to run your house, because they think there is no authority...i firmly believe in alpha and dominance
 

MiserySmith

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I liked the episode where he got bitten. I think he's just full of himself and his techniques only work on VERY specific dogs and NO ONE other than a professional should try it unless they'd like to get bitten also.
This is my opinion.
 

ldoerr

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I personally REALLY like cesar's way of training. I have read all of his books and studdied it a bit. I have applied it to my dogs and they are SOOOOOOOO much better because of it. His methods work if you do them right. Dogs techincally are wolfs. They are breed from wolfs many years ago, but still have the traits of them. Some domestic dogs even look like real wolfs. The test to see if animals are the same species still it to cross breed them and have them produce fertile offspring together. Dogs and wolfs can still do that so they are still the same species. Dogs will if need be revert back to their wolf instincts and form packs and all that sort of stuff to live, survive and thrive. Cesar speaks the truth with his methods. I am a firm believer in them. His methods have been proven time and time again. Sure not EVERY single time it will work, but no mater the method it will never work 100% of the time. In one of his books he states that he has only ever had 2 dogs that could not be helped out of the 1000s he has worked with.
 

MLS

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Personally I think Cesar's methods are completely bunk and that his alpha theories are both outdated and garbage. It's been proven that only primitive breeds of dog ( huskies, chows, shiba inu, etc. ) can understand wolf-style pack body language and even they respond differently than actual wolves. I use positive and food based methods and it requires patience and sticking to your guns to work but I feel that it doesn't backslide as much as more negative reinforcement and discipline based methods. I feel like Cesar's methods put dogs into situations where they will fail and than punishing them rather than teaching the owner to keep their dog in situations where they will not be forced to fail and redirecting their bad habits into more healthy/appropriate channels. He also seems to work more on shutting down unwanted behaviors which I feel can backfire more easily/create anxious and nervous dogs that are more prone to "snap out of the blue" because they've created a dog that is taught by fear to not show things like growling when its annoyed, which could prevent a bite when the dog is annoyed as that would be a CLEAR tell that the dog was upset and needed space which should be respected, rather than teaching dogs to redirect their behaviors in more positive and acceptable ways. That and Cesar has no dog work experience aside from his "Mexican farm dog experience" and working at a groomers. He also has no actual degree in animal behavior or indeed, any actual credentials of any kind, at all.
These are just my opinions and just the way that I like to do things Not calling anyone out or trying to start drama lol However if anyone wants to learn a bit more about why I feel the way I do or just read something better articulated coming from people who disagree with Cesar than what I typed up these are some nice links to read (they're brief) : http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominance.aspx/ http://avsabonline.org/uploads/position_statements/dominance_statement.pdf
 
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Watermelons

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You have to think too... Are they really going to show you the ones Cesar cant fix on TV? Lets see an episode where he does he poke thing and the dog bites him back and takes off a finger. I much prefered the dog whisperer, but still prefer positive reinforcement untill every method has been attempted.
I've been training for a few years now, and I still struggle to watch an entire episode of Cesar.... I think I would rather go to the dentist!
 
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