Diarrhea? Suddenly sick bunny. (RIP)

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DazyDaizee

DazyDaizee

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Location
, Massachusetts, USA
Wally
2.5year old New Zealand White
Residual head tilt from past (at rescue): unknown cause.
Adopted April 09
No health issues since.

Last night seemed fine. Alert, active.
Today he had been sitting under a chair all day. I didn't think it was strange until he moved and I noticed what looked like diarrhea beneath him. I moved the chair to find more piles of mushy poo. I picked him up and his whole underbelly was wet with a combination of feces and urine. I offered him hay and veggies, he wasn't interested. Definitely lethargic, but responsive and sitting up, fighting a little to be picked up.

I think he was grinding his teeth a little when I went over to him. Felt his belly, soft. Heard gut sounds. I cleaned up his belly and took his temp. 95.2. I wasn't sure if it was accurate. I took my other rabbit's temp which was 101 something.
I went to take Wally's temp again, picked him up and he started to defecate. It was mostly mushy feces, but there was brownish liquid.. I don't know if he was just urinating at the same time, or if he actually has watery diarrhea. I took the temp. 96.2.

I put him in a cage with a heating pad in one area and hay and veggies. I offered him a baby carrot. Eventually he started to eat it with me holding it. He was chewing funny and dropping pieces. He did eat about half of it.

Now he seems a little more alert, but definitely not himself. He doesn't seem obviously dehydrated when I tented the skin. I don't see anything obvious in his mouth or with his incisors. He is grooming himself normally. He doesn't seem pale or cold to the touch, his ears seem an okay temperature and I wonder if the temp isn't accurate because of stools in the anus? In the apartment the temp is around 72 so it is warm in here (I know hypothermia is a separate issue from room temp, just pointing it out).

The only thing I can think might have set off a GI upset is the fact that he went without hay for a few days (maybe just one or two?). We ran out and I didn't realize since my boyfriend typically feeds them. I bought a bag yesterday and he had plenty then.. Also the beginning of last week I switched back to his regular timothy based pellets after he had the alfalfa based for a few days (Again.. I ran out of food before the bag I ordered came in). But I would have thought it's been long enough since he was fine until this am.

So.. I want to wait a few hours and watch him closely, make sure he keeps improving.. I'm going to recheck his temp in another 10 minutes or so to make sure it's going up. Is there something else I should be doing?

I'm wondering if his teeth are okay because of the strange way he was chewing.. maybe he hasn't been eating hay for a while and I haven't noticed? He was seen by the vet back when I adopted him and his teeth were fine at that point.
 
Also.. he is drinking water

And he did have an abscess removed (probably a reaction from penG injections) before I adopted him. The abscess was between his shoulder blades and he recovered from the surgery with no problems. I don't think it's related.. that's his only real history I know..
 
I'm pretty sure rectal thermometers are quite accurate, regardless of whether there's stool or not. The low temp worries me a bit. I'm glad you got him a heat source.

Remove all other food except hay and water. Give him some Bene-Bac and simethicone (1ml of baby stuff/hr for 3hrs). If you have some Metacam that's no more than 6 months old, give him some of that.

Give him some pedialyte in a bowl, or by oral syringe if he won't drink it. I'd say at least 20 mL. If this doesn't help, he should see a vet very soon.

Diarrhea is really serious, especially when it comes on so fast. I don't know why he would also have urine on his fur, unless he was in too much pain from the gut distress to move to the litterbox, so he peed on himself.

If it were my bunny, I'd take him to the vet emergency style.

Good luck!
 
Okay.. the temp only went up 0.2 degrees. I'm going to recheck it, but I scheduled an appointment for 6:00 (in 2 hours, takes about an hour to get there).

Thanks for the advice. I was hoping for a bigger jump in the temp, hoping it was a fluke.. unfortunately that's not the case.
 
Will be thinking of you guys. Good luck at the vet's. In the meanwhile, you can try to wrap him in towels and keep him in a cat carrier with the heating pad, if you think he'll tolerate it. About all you can do right now is keep him warm and as hydrated as possible.
 
The temp went down a little more before I took him in. When we got there, after the exam, the temp was 99.1. The doctor was still pretty concerned. He had some mushy stools with blood there. They ran some tests on the stool and found an overgrowth of Clostridium. No coccidia yet, but they're sending out a float for that.
The vet is keeping him overnight (it's a 24 hour emergency hospital), they're going to run some blood work, keep him on heating pads while checking temp, give fluids, force feed, ect. His dental exam (what he tolerated of it) seemed normal and his stomach was empty, nothing too concerning that she could feel.
They may do xrays tomorrow, depending on what they find and how he's doing. They might also want to run a few other tests depending.
Poor Wally...
 
It sounds like he's in a good place right now. I hope he improves overnight, and that it was just clostridium.
 
Umm....what are they doing about the Clostridium? That can be a life threatening infection. If you search some of my old thread posts, you can see just how serious this bacteria should be taken. Clostridium is an anaerobic bacteria that shows itself when there is a bacterial imbalance in the GI. This bacteria can actually kill the inner membrane of the GI tract. It is a leading cause of food poisoning in humans....and is related to Botulism and Tetanus. Our response to Clostridium has traditionally been fluids along with an antibiotic known as Metronidazole (Flagyl). Not only is the Metronidazole effective against the Clostridium, it also has huge anti-inflammatory properties inside the gut. This bacteria is the reason that many oral antibiotics can't be used in the gut....either the drug kills the good bacteria that controls the Clostridium and/or the Clostridium is resistant. Either way, Clostridium is always bad news. But when properly treated, "the genie can be put back into the bottle".

I would also urge you to discuss something new we are just starting to test here with wildlife that have "blow out diarrhea". Same rules apply to wildlife and have been worse this year due to some major formula issues. There is a horse product called BioSponge. In vitro testing shows that this product can bind and filter almost all of the toxins from Clostridium. I am sure that people smarter than me are using this product already....so maybe your vet would be willing to go out on the VIN just fora look see. Those toxins from Clostridium have to be contained.

Randy
 
They did start metronidazole and fluids. I forgot to mention that. I think there may be one other medication they have started or may start as well.. it was just a lot to take in at once and I didn't get any discharge instructions since he's still there. She just didn't seem to think that the Clostridium alone was the cause for low temp.

I can ask her tomorrow when she calls with an update about the BioSponge. Thanks for the tips
 
He's doing better. Still had some mushy stool with blood, but is eating greens on his own & they are giving critical care. He won't eat any hay. He seems more alert than when I first brought him in and his temp is back up to 101.4.

The blood work came back with a mild elevation of creatinine (by about 0.2), but also showed some dehydration, so this may be just due to that (I hope) and less likely due to a kidney issues. His white blood cells weren't very high, but the ratio between white and red blood cells was off. The blood glucose was a little high, she said this is likely due to stress, but can indicate problems with the pancreas, ect.

She wanted to keep him overnight again since he is still dehydrated. They are increasing his fluid rate. I'm supposed to get another call this morning with an update and hopefully be able to pick him up today. There's a different vet on today that I know better since she took care of one of my other pets recently. So we'll see what she has to say..
 
Thanks for keeping us updated! We've been thinking about him! I hope they can get his dehydration under control soon.
 
I didn't talk to the doctor today, but her notes said that Wally seemed brighter this morning, but still having mushy stool with blood. She would like to see an improvement in that before he goes home, so she wanted him to be there for the day. I'm hoping we can pick him up tonight, so we'll see how the afternoon goes.
 
So I brought Wally home on Thursday the 17th. He was doing well that night, eating, bright, ect. Next day seemed a little less active, but was eating in the morning.. by that night he wasn't eating much of anything. The next morning, Saturday 19th he looked bad again.. lethargic, no interest in food. I took a temp. 98.6.
Took him to see a vet I used to work with. She gave him SQ fluids and prescribed cisapride to help his gut moving. She suggested adding a probiotic and continuing metronidazole and SQ fluids at home if needed. Also Critical Care to be force fed if not eating.
He seemed better that night. However, last night our old guinea pig wasn't looking well. I found that he had an anal impaction and cleaned it out, figuring that was the main issue. He does have hyperthyroidism and just started meds a few weeks ago. He has definitely lost a lot of weight. He was dehydrated (skin tent, sunken eyes), I gave some SQ fluids.
So this morning Wally seemed okay and the guinea pig was eating but still didn't look great. Fluids & meds for Wally, and I cleaned out the guinea pig again to avoid another impaction.

When I got home from work Wally looks worse again and not eating much. Has had a heating pad in with him all day. The guinea pig looks like he's about to die. Soft stool, puffed up coat, sunken eyes, extremely lethargic, not eating. I gave him more SQ fluids, tried to force some Critical Care with vitamin B and C. Got very little into him.

Here's my question. I did have a foster rabbit with Coccidia. Wally was tested and was negative, but I know that Coccidia can be hard to find and false negatives are common. Now that the guinea pig has loose stool, inappetance, ect, does it seem more likely that they could both have Coccidia? I started Albon for both. I figured that it doesn't typically cause adverse effects, but it's worth a shot.

The issue with the pig is that he's almost 5 years old with hyperthyroidism (we don't know if the tumor is benign or malignant and he's had it for some time). The way he looks, I honestly don't think he'll survive and we just spent almost $800 on Wally this week, and he's still sick.. we just can't afford to hospitalize the guinea pig, too. And I'm not sure it's worth the stress on him when this looks so grim.

Any ideas? Think it's related? Sound like Coccidia or not?
 
I haven't had GPs in years, but personally I think you'd be buying the little piggy months at best, he's pretty old. I'd make him comfortable, get lots of liquids, pain meds into him and hope for the best.

Those symptoms can be the side effects of pretty much any illness. Or an upset tummy.

But I'm really not all that knowledgeable.

Best of luck.


sas :pray:
 
Best of luck with the GP. I know he appreciates all of your efforts to take care of him.

I wasn't aware that the coccidia test could be a false negative. However, it is likely that it could spread from one to the other. Coccidia is spread by spores in the stool (if I remember correctly), so it would be simple for that to pass between them--you'd just have to touch the GP's poo and then touch Wally. I would mention it to the vet. A course of Albon may not be harmful, even if it isn't coccidia. However, Dana Krempels (and probably Randy) prefer to treat with Marquis. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Treating-bunny-coccidia.htm
 
Thanks for the link.. I'll have to see if I can find Marquis. I have Albon from the rabbit I was treating before, that's why I started with that.
The guinea pig died last night. He got a lot worse so fast.

I had Wally separated in a cage to make cleaning and monitoring easier. Last night after I cleaned him up I let him hop around while he dried off. He seemed to perk up more, so I left him out of the cage last night. (Anything that he's been exposed to, my other rabbit and other guinea pig have been exposed to. They are always in very close contact and share the same living area.)
This morning he ate pretty well and seemed more lively. There's no diarrhea anywhere. His stomach is making some gurgly noises and he seems sensitive. It's not hard or doughy.. So I'm going to try to pick up some simethicone this morning. I'm guessing he hasn't passed any stool since last night... not sure what that means..
I gave him his fluids and meds this morning, which he protested and flicked his feet and thumped at me when it was done.. which I guess is a good sign..
 
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