Can't help but be ashamed to be human....

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missyscove wrote:
Local dairies can do really well- if they have the right niche market for their products.
The problem is that most small dairies don't have the ability- let alone the desire or the marketing ability- to process their own milk. What happens then is that they buy everything- feed, milking machines, labor, medications, barns- retail where they can't control the price and then they sell their milk at a wholesale price that they can't control either.
Interesting you should mention the glass bottles- one small dairy we visited that bottles their own milk and makes thier own ice cream mentioned that they switched from glass bottles to plastic and cartons after discovering that their customers weren't rinsing the bottles out and bacteria would grow inside and they ended up having to hand wash them after running them through their dish washer.

As far as the shelf life, yeah, that varies from dairy to dairy. For example, the Cornell dairy on campus can put a few more days on their milk than most can because they were able to track pathogens back to specific cows and solve the problems right here on our dairy.
That sucks about having to switch from glass to plastic bottles. I have never seen anyone return a dirty bottle, and I would be completely emberassed to return a dirty bottle.

Maybe I'm spoiled for good milk, though. I grew up in Manhattan, Kansas, home to Kansas State University, which has a really good animal science program. When I was growing up, my family would often go to the dairy on campus to get milk, it came in big glass gallon jars, and was about as fresh as it could get.
They also have a place on campus where the animal science students sell their products; they have milk, the awesome-ist ice cream in the world, cheese, and bacon regularly, plus other cuts of meat sometimes.

 
Kansas State was one of the places I looked at.
Here at Cornell we have the dairy bar where they sell milk, ice cream, cider, pudding, cheese, yogurt and maple syrup all from Cornell agriculture.
The milk, ice cream, cider, yogurt, apples and pudding are also in our dining halls.
We also have beef, swine and sheep facilities- all part of the animal science and vet school programs.
I swear the milk here tastes better than it did at home, of course given that the taste of milk is a function of what the cow eats, it's entirely plausible that it does taste different.
 
We lived in Clemson for a while and they had a place where we could get milk and the best ice cream on the planet.


As far as peer review goes, once you've done it, you no longer believe it. Basically, you write an article, send it off to be peer reviewed, they tear it up and tell you what they want you to say. To get published(and universities are publish or perish) you make whatever changes they want you to make, even if it violates your research or other things. My dad is a pretty big professor. He says that the leading person in forecasting says that the science used to back up Gore's claims violates 28 out of the 42 rules of forecasting.

Just out of curiosity. The greenhouse gas we are most concerned about it C02. How much percentage wise are we contributing to the C02 in the atmosphere?
 
missyscove wrote:
BethM wrote:
missyscove wrote:
2) Yes, some farms may be disappearing, but it's important to note that, at least in the US, small family farms really aren't economical anymore. Sure, it's great to see a small dairy, but that small dairy can't support a family. A large dairy that takes advantage of technologies including BST and sub therapeutic levels of antibiotics is not only economical but also more efficient- more milk per cow. Also, most dairies in the US are still family owned, it's just that they're larger than they were before.
I'm sort of late getting in to this, so I'm behind a bit....

I buy my milk from a local, family-owned dairy. That dairy actually does very well here. Their milk is in Whole Foods, as well as one local grocery store chain. The use no growth hormones, which I totally support. (I read that the hormones are injected into the cows' udders, which can cause irritation, inflammation, and sometimes infection, leading the cows to be put on even more antibiotics than they already are. If this isn't correct, I want to know.) So anyway. No BGH. Plus, the milk tastes much better, and stays fresh much longer than the cheap milk that's been shipped from two states away. And it comes in a glass bottle that I can return and it will be used again.
Yes, it is a little more expensive than the "imported" milk. It's actually cheaper at Whole Foods than the other store. They also have flavored milk (banana, strawberry, orange, and root beer), cream, butter, and ice cream.

I think the problem is, people are so wrapped up in getting a lot of stuff for very little money. But we need to re-evaluate what is actually important in life. I can't go around complaining that there aren't any local dairys any more, but be buying the cheap milk instead of the good stuff from the local dairy. I love milk, I drink it every day, as well as make my own yogurt with it. But I've cut down my milk consumption so I can afford to get the good, local milk.

(So you know, I'm on a very tight budget. But I am willing to make sacrifices for the things I care about. I would prefer to drink a half gallon of good milk a week, than a gallon of cheap milk that tastes bland and starts going bad before I finish it.)
Keeping in mind that what I know about dairying is from a few days of general animal science classes- I don' t have a concentration in dairying and I haven't taken any actual dairy specific classes.

As far as I know, BST is NOT injected into the udder. Posilac is one BST supplement. You can see here exactly where they intend for it to be injected: the tailhead, shoulder or neck.
https://www.make10.net/FILES/Management%20Links/How%20to%20Administer%20POSILAC.pdf

A small, though statistically significant, increase in mastitis risk is associated with cows on BST, though I'm not sure exactly why that is.
Mastitis is essentially caused by something getting up inside the teat sphincter and causing an infection. Mastitis is generally treated with an antibiotic because there are regulations on somatic cell count in milk so in order to keep somatic cell count low, mastitis must be treated. The milk from cows that are treated with therapeutic levels of antibiotics- and thus cows that are secreting antibiotics in their milk- must be dumped. One of the dairies we toured uses this milk to raise their heifer calves instead of raising them on milk replacer. Bottom line is that you don't drink milk from sick cows.

Some more information on mastitis:
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/INF-DA/INF-DA_MASTITIS101.HTML


Local dairies can do really well- if they have the right niche market for their products.
The problem is that most small dairies don't have the ability- let alone the desire or the marketing ability- to process their own milk. What happens then is that they buy everything- feed, milking machines, labor, medications, barns- retail where they can't control the price and then they sell their milk at a wholesale price that they can't control either.
Interesting you should mention the glass bottles- one small dairy we visited that bottles their own milk and makes thier own ice cream mentioned that they switched from glass bottles to plastic and cartons after discovering that their customers weren't rinsing the bottles out and bacteria would grow inside and they ended up having to hand wash them after running them through their dish washer.

As far as the shelf life, yeah, that varies from dairy to dairy. For example, the Cornell dairy on campus can put a few more days on their milk than most can because they were able to track pathogens back to specific cows and solve the problems right here on our dairy.



Mastitis is caused by bacteria getting into the udder, usually due to poor environment or milking machines, and is treated with intramammary antibiotics.

SCC increases in the milk of a cow who has mastitis. I think there are regulations on how high the SCC can be in the milk, if it is to be sold. A high count affects the quality of the milk, and its composition, so I don't think that cheese/yoghurt etc. could actually be made.

I'm not totally knowledgable about it- I worked with two vets for a few weeks and we visited quite a few farms and dairy farms, and I do remember talking about bovine mastitis but I can't really remember anything other than what I've said. :S

It's one of the most common infections in cows, so I wouldn't have thought anyone could get away with selling infected milk?


 
BethM wrote:
missyscove wrote:
2) Yes, some farms may be disappearing, but it's important to note that, at least in the US, small family farms really aren't economical anymore. Sure, it's great to see a small dairy, but that small dairy can't support a family. A large dairy that takes advantage of technologies including BST and sub therapeutic levels of antibiotics is not only economical but also more efficient- more milk per cow. Also, most dairies in the US are still family owned, it's just that they're larger than they were before.
I'm sort of late getting in to this, so I'm behind a bit....

I buy my milk from a local, family-owned dairy. That dairy actually does very well here. Their milk is in Whole Foods, as well as one local grocery store chain. The use no growth hormones, which I totally support. (I read that the hormones are injected into the cows' udders, which can cause irritation, inflammation, and sometimes infection, leading the cows to be put on even more antibiotics than they already are. If this isn't correct, I want to know.) So anyway. No BGH.
:expressionless

Amazing the amount of consumers that go out of their way to find milk that is from cows that are "not treated with artificial growth hormone".

BSTis not an "added" hormone, like some people want to believe. BST is produced naturally by cows, in varying amounts.Using additional BST in milk production is FDA approved, and studies have shown that there is no difference between milk from cows that were treated with BST and those who weren't.

By purchasing "rBST Free" milk, you're basically paying more for a label and not paying more for a product that is safer than milk without the label.
 
jcottonl02 wrote


Mastitis is caused by bacteria getting into the udder, usually due to poor environment or milking machines, and is treated with intramammary antibiotics.

SCC increases in the milk of a cow who has mastitis. I think there are regulations on how high the SCC can be in the milk, if it is to be sold. A high count affects the quality of the milk, and its composition, so I don't think that cheese/yoghurt etc. could actually be made.

I'm not totally knowledgable about it- I worked with two vets for a few weeks and we visited quite a few farms and dairy farms, and I do remember talking about bovine mastitis but I can't really remember anything other than what I've said. :S

It's one of the most common infections in cows, so I wouldn't have thought anyone could get away with selling infected milk?
Well, while farmers can test individual cows if they'd like, the processor just tests the entire tank of milk so if a few cows have a high count, that can be diluted by the rest of the cows having low count.
 
No doubt humans have screwed up the earth, but I think we'll okay. I don't believe in God, so in my opinion the end of the world will be brought about by humans. Let's hope that it doesn't come to that.

This world could be such a lovely place if it wasn't so corrupted by greed and hate.

I don't really believe global warming is as bad as people make it out to be.
 
OakRidgeRabbits wrote:
BethM wrote
I'm sort of late getting in to this, so I'm behind a bit....

I buy my milk from a local, family-owned dairy. That dairy actually does very well here. Their milk is in Whole Foods, as well as one local grocery store chain. The use no growth hormones, which I totally support. (I read that the hormones are injected into the cows' udders, which can cause irritation, inflammation, and sometimes infection, leading the cows to be put on even more antibiotics than they already are. If this isn't correct, I want to know.) So anyway. No BGH.
:expressionless

Amazing the amount of consumers that go out of their way to find milk that is from cows that are "not treated with artificial growth hormone".

BSTis not an "added" hormone, like some people want to believe. BST is produced naturally by cows, in varying amounts.Using additional BST in milk production is FDA approved, and studies have shown that there is no difference between milk from cows that were treated with BST and those who weren't.

By purchasing "rBST Free" milk, you're basically paying more for a label and not paying more for a product that is safer than milk without the label.
There are some things other than rBST that are "approved by the FDA" that I don't think are good to consume. There are things that have been proven harmful that are approved by the FDA for use in food products. I try to avoid products that have a lot of artificial sweeteners, colorings, preservatives, high fructose corn syrup, etc.


I do pay more for my milk. The milk I buy comes from a dairy that is only 70 miles from my house. The "regular" milk in my supermarket is imported from Iowa. The glass bottles the milk comes in helps me save a bit of energy. Not only in the wasteful use of plastic, but glass containers help to increase the efficiency of your refrigerator. The milk not only tastes much, much better than the "regular" milk, even the "regular" whole milk tastes like water, but it stays tasting good for at least 3 days longer, probably because it wasn't trucked in from 2 states away (which is another waste of energy).

I am not paying more for "just the label." I am paying more for a higher quality product, and for a reduced environmental impact. I am also paying more because it is a small, family-owned farm. I would prefer my money to go to a family-owned, responsible company, than to save 25 cents and have my money go to a large corporation, while receiving an inferior product. I could pay even more to get organic milk with no added rBST, but that milk is trucked in from another state.

These are all things that are very important to me. I am also willing to pay more for free-range eggs, but only if the eggs are of a higher quality, and preferably local. I will pay more for the cheese crackers with no nasty additives, or for the apples from the local farmer's market. I am on a very tight grocery budget, but filling my stomach with loads of cheap junk does nothing but make me fat and sick.

I also drive a Prius, drink tap water from a reuseable aluminum water bottle, take my own cloth grocery bags to the store, and take recycling to a drop-off because there's no recycling pick-up here, even though it's not convenient for me.
We are in the process of buying a house, and one of my criteria is a yard that I can start a garden in, providing fresh, organic produce for us and the rabbits during the growing season. We won't get in the house soon enough to put a garden in this year, but I will be starting compost right away.



 
Thank you to everyone who corrected me about the method in which the bovine growth hormones are used. I don't like spreading mis-information, and am happy to learn that the injections are not given directly into the udder.

Although my Bachelor's Degree is officially in "Agriculture," I studied Ornamental Horticulture, and avoided the animal science buildings as much as possible. (I was always terrified I'd accidentally wander into the big stainless steel room with the drain in the floor. Yuck.)
 
Same Bethm.

I try to make up for the horrors animals suffer for us to have meat, by buying everything free-range.
We buy free-range eggs, pork, chicken, sausages, bacon, lamb....everything actually.

Of course, at restaurants I doubt they would be using free-range products, which is quite sad :(

But I am completely willing to pay more, and always will do, for free range products- I don't think I'll buy anything else again.
 

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