Hi to everyone. I lost my bunny yesterday during a routine neutering. The vet said they couldn't intubate and then couldn't use a LMA mask either, then they carried on with some another mask? He collapsed, they reversed the anaesthetic, gave adrenaline and cardiac massage but by then it was too late. Does anyone know the standard procedures regarding these methods? I am devastated and am thinking it might be a case of airway mismanagement by two inexperienced vets. Do you think they should have stopped if they couldn't intubate in the first instance. All comments welcome. I am lost.
Bunny death during neutering.
- Thread starter Clem
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cwebster
Well-Known Member
I am so very sorry for the loss of your bunny. I just postponed spaying our bunny for another month out of fear of losing her.
Thank you for your reply. Totally understand your worries. Girls have the cancer issue as well which doesn't help decisions at all does it.
I'm not sure I would do the same again if I had a boy and his behaviour wasn't too bad. For the record, my bunny was OK I just followed every advice that I read that said to neuter.
Might be an idea for bunny mums to have a detailed conversation with their vets about these issues. Feel for you.
I'm not sure I would do the same again if I had a boy and his behaviour wasn't too bad. For the record, my bunny was OK I just followed every advice that I read that said to neuter.
Might be an idea for bunny mums to have a detailed conversation with their vets about these issues. Feel for you.
FuzzyBunny ph
Well-Known Member
so sorry for your loss ='(
I dont know much about the anesthesia process but maybe the dosage was off? or not the right anesthesia? I'm not so sure
I hope this won't discourage you in getting your next adopted bunny fixed in the future <3
I dont know much about the anesthesia process but maybe the dosage was off? or not the right anesthesia? I'm not so sure
I hope this won't discourage you in getting your next adopted bunny fixed in the future <3
NYAngela
Well-Known Member
I’m so sorry for your loss. We lost our first bun in an attempt to neuter him. He didn’t respond well the the anesthesia so they stopped. We brought him home but he passes the next day from an an aneurysm. I’m petrified to have our bun neutered now and have avoided it
Hello NYAngela, thank you for your reply. I am so sorry for your loss too, that sounds heart-breaking to have had him back only for him to be taken.
No one could have predicted his aneurysm could they. So tragic. My heart goes out to you. Not surprised you are wary for your next bun, I will be the same. x
No one could have predicted his aneurysm could they. So tragic. My heart goes out to you. Not surprised you are wary for your next bun, I will be the same. x
Hello Fuzzybunny, I am thinking that this might have been a possibility or just inexperience/mismanagement, or perhaps all three. I am going to ask for a very detailed report. I will post if anyone is interested. Rabbit intubation is difficult I know but I think it all went too far. Totally lost without him.
Hmm.. think I would have to rescue a spayed female. Really unsure about doing this again. Thank you for your post. x
Hmm.. think I would have to rescue a spayed female. Really unsure about doing this again. Thank you for your post. x
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I am so very sorry about your bun. It's important to know the vets experience and to have that conversation before the surgery. How many of these surgeries have they done? How many years experience with anesthesia? Ask them if they have ever had a rabbit die during the procedure. It's important information to have so that you, the pet owner, can make an informed decision. It may mean that you need to "shop around" for another vet that has a lot of experience. I know anesthesia with a rabbit is high risk. I took my rabbit to a different vet because I didn't get a good feeling about their ability to be successful. A good vet shouldn't have any problem answering these questions. If they can't, go elsewhere. Again, so very sorry for your loss.
NYAngela
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately we know each other’s pain
although I have had time to heal. Taking our nearly 1.5yo bun this week for another well visit & will discuss it.
We have had over 50 rescues neutered, with no losses--lucky as all get out. We did a lot of research and drove over an hour away to get the females neutered as I really liked the vet there and she did at least 10 a week, so, no surprises. We had a really good vet less than a mile away that I took all my boys to. They both gave me a break on the price since they knew they were all rescues. Take your time, always, and find a Vet that knows bunnies. The Vet we used in Oakley, 75 miles away, was one I found thru HRS.
Most of mine have been rescues (on the euthanize list) from shelters that automatically spay/neuter the bunnies before letting them leave. It's worth a drive to find a rescue or shelter that does that. That way you don't have the cost and risk of getting it done yourself. However, I took in a stray 6 weeks ago (was dumped in our neighborhood), so I too will be facing the neutering question soon.
A vet needs to be VERY experienced with intubation for me to let them intubate my rabbits, since it is a tricky procedure and they can easily damage structures. My local vet is honest enough to say that she doesn't have enough experience to intubate and knows I don't want her experimenting on my bunny! Maybe your vets were less experienced? So very sorry that he and you had to go through that.
A vet needs to be VERY experienced with intubation for me to let them intubate my rabbits, since it is a tricky procedure and they can easily damage structures. My local vet is honest enough to say that she doesn't have enough experience to intubate and knows I don't want her experimenting on my bunny! Maybe your vets were less experienced? So very sorry that he and you had to go through that.
I'm in the NYC area and have absolutely obsessed over this decision. The cost -- which here is astronomical -- the risk, figuring out which vet to use, all caused me to delay spaying my bunny. I've finally decided to bite the bullet and have her spayed by my very expensive but very rabbit-savvy vet this week.
The veterinary technician spent almost an hour on the phone explaining every aspect of the procedure to me before I decided to schedule it. These are my notes on the steps they take. I was writing quickly so they may not be 100% accurate.
I hope this helps someone else with their decision!
One week prior:
Complete blood workup and stool sample analysis to ensure that the rabbit is on a healthy candidate for surgery.
Day of surgery:
The veterinary technician spent almost an hour on the phone explaining every aspect of the procedure to me before I decided to schedule it. These are my notes on the steps they take. I was writing quickly so they may not be 100% accurate.
I hope this helps someone else with their decision!
One week prior:
Complete blood workup and stool sample analysis to ensure that the rabbit is on a healthy candidate for surgery.
Day of surgery:
- Injection of Cerenia (anti-nausea med) and NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory)
- Administer " knockout drugs" (ketamine, buprenorphine and something else I didn't catch)
- Bunny gets groggy and goes to sleep
- Administer anesthesia (isoflurane gas)
- Apply oxygen mask and, if they can, an airway tube to administer oxygen
- Monitor her vital signs and shave her abdomen
- Perform surgery
- Apply internal sutures
- Apply surgical glue rather than sutures to external skin layer because bunnies tend to remove their external sutures
- Apply laser therapy to incision area to promote more rapid healing
- Bring home meloxicam for pain management and topical ointment
TreasuredFriend
Well-Known Member
Know Your Vet. Make Sure they are experienced. Ask how many sp/euters they have done. @Nancy McClelland , @rabbit_friend :
One of our first rescue transitions from shelter that was overpopulated died in neuter surgery when I did not research properly. The overanxious DVM was tackling a cryptorchid neuter on our dutch boy who would've been euthanized because the shelter was overcapacity. I regret that I ever took him to that vet. (DVM is no longer on the HRS recommended list).
Our rescue has taken unwanted or abandoned buns in for sp/euters. Nurmerous rabbits removed from high-volume shelters.
CBC/BMP and wellness exams are done prior by our experienced DVM team. Our rabbit-savvy team requires pre-surgery tests (checking organ function, hydration, blood-clotting capability) and recently added lung xray. This costs money but I will pay the additional costs.
I have also heard of inexperienced assistant in SNIP clinic not shutting off the right valve to restore oxygen vs. isoflurane; something to that regard.
Another experience that left us heartbroken occured in December 2018. The sweetest 7 mo. old Flemish who originated from a backyard breeder transitioned to a person who could no longer keep him and his brother. Stupid me, not thinking of the dangers of ingesting baking-soda odor control bedding material. He and bro were spraying horrendously and dominance mounting occurred so we separated the sibs prior to neuter day.
He died from cardiac arrest as our rabbit-savvy DVM was closing up. I was shocked, angry, stunned and heartbroken. I thought all concerns were covered in the pre-surgery CBC/BMP approx. 5 days earlier. ** The necropsy showed he had 1/4th normal lung function. ** This didn't show nor detected when DVM listened to heart/lungs with stethoscope prior to surgery?
- Our clinic now adds a lung xray as pre-surgery protocol. // During rabbit socializer years at the shelter we saw many rabbits doing well in their SNIP clinic surgery.
I can relate to your loss, Clem. I can relate to the regrets. My heartfelt empathy as you heal.
Know your vet. Know your vet team. Cherish each day. (19 rabbits successfully sailed thru their sp/euters in 2006 after intact agouti male and female, and female NZW were dumped outdoors to populate.)
One of our first rescue transitions from shelter that was overpopulated died in neuter surgery when I did not research properly. The overanxious DVM was tackling a cryptorchid neuter on our dutch boy who would've been euthanized because the shelter was overcapacity. I regret that I ever took him to that vet. (DVM is no longer on the HRS recommended list).
Our rescue has taken unwanted or abandoned buns in for sp/euters. Nurmerous rabbits removed from high-volume shelters.
CBC/BMP and wellness exams are done prior by our experienced DVM team. Our rabbit-savvy team requires pre-surgery tests (checking organ function, hydration, blood-clotting capability) and recently added lung xray. This costs money but I will pay the additional costs.
I have also heard of inexperienced assistant in SNIP clinic not shutting off the right valve to restore oxygen vs. isoflurane; something to that regard.
Another experience that left us heartbroken occured in December 2018. The sweetest 7 mo. old Flemish who originated from a backyard breeder transitioned to a person who could no longer keep him and his brother. Stupid me, not thinking of the dangers of ingesting baking-soda odor control bedding material. He and bro were spraying horrendously and dominance mounting occurred so we separated the sibs prior to neuter day.
He died from cardiac arrest as our rabbit-savvy DVM was closing up. I was shocked, angry, stunned and heartbroken. I thought all concerns were covered in the pre-surgery CBC/BMP approx. 5 days earlier. ** The necropsy showed he had 1/4th normal lung function. ** This didn't show nor detected when DVM listened to heart/lungs with stethoscope prior to surgery?
- Our clinic now adds a lung xray as pre-surgery protocol. // During rabbit socializer years at the shelter we saw many rabbits doing well in their SNIP clinic surgery.
I can relate to your loss, Clem. I can relate to the regrets. My heartfelt empathy as you heal.
Know your vet. Know your vet team. Cherish each day. (19 rabbits successfully sailed thru their sp/euters in 2006 after intact agouti male and female, and female NZW were dumped outdoors to populate.)
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allenstacy74
Well-Known Member
Hi! I’m so sorry for your loss, I lost one of my bunnies due to spaying. When I spoke to my vet they said that rabbits don’t take well to anaesthetic so they can only give them a small dose, this could be the reasoning to what may of happened? They could have given too much or simply it is possible that your bunny couldn’t handle the anaesthetic. The loss of my rabbit was due to a different problem in which my vet surgeon told me was somewhat rare to occur, but once my doe had been spayed she seemed fine but after her surgery one of her organs had crossed over another and caused a gas build up and restricted oxygen to her brain causing her to go brain dead… I had to make the decision to put her down because it would have been wildly inhumane to keep her in those conditions.. whether your spaying or neutering your bunny they is always a fairly high chance that something may go wrong, it’s not always the vet surgeons fault, bunnies are just extremely fragile animals! ❤
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TreasuredFriend
Well-Known Member
Yes. It would be beneficial to see actual numbers from each rabbit-savvy DVM on successful sp/euters, or how many were lost for one reason or another. Cardiac arrest, in-experienced staff, etc.
At the shelter when I volunteered, surrendered rabbits were sp/eutered as were dogs/cats.
Spaying and neutering for rabbits has become a safe procedure when performed by experienced rabbit veterinarians. The House Rabbit Society has had over 1000 rabbits spayed or neutered with approximately . 1% mortality due to anesthesia.
At the shelter when I volunteered, surrendered rabbits were sp/eutered as were dogs/cats.
Spaying and neutering for rabbits has become a safe procedure when performed by experienced rabbit veterinarians. The House Rabbit Society has had over 1000 rabbits spayed or neutered with approximately . 1% mortality due to anesthesia.
Bunnygreen
Well-Known Member
I have not experienced this with neutering my boys, I am so so sorry for your loss 
. Although I have not experienced this in particular, the overall theme of "knowing your vet" hits hard for me, as I almost lost Dr. Cheese after only having him under 6 months after adopting him so I do understand the frustration of feeling like you were lied to or ripped off in some way. I took him to my usual bun vet after adopting him concerned about his cecotropes appearing "leaky" as he was leaving stains on his matts, so the vet requested he go on an all hay diet and provided dietary instructions to do so. Fast forward a few months from then, and I almost lost him because of this vet's direction, and a SECONDARY vet I took him to when I was concerned about his health told me he was fine despite losing weight. A week after they told me he was completely fine, the same vet recommended I take him to an emergency rabbit specialist 1.5 hours away to do testing, get him on an IV, and do more bloodwork or he was going to die within 24hrs. All of this cost me about $1500 in the first 4 months of owning him: and the final diagnoses was "anorexia" due to his malnutrition from not receiving pellets as requested by his original vet.
Apologies for the tangent, but I will always share this story when relevant because it is so upsetting when responsible rabbit owners such as yourself try to provide the best health for their buns and end up being deceived. I truly hope that your situation was purely incidental and not a reflection on the veterinarian's skillset. I do not blame you for your fears in getting your future buns fixed, but I also would emphasize that you did absolutely nothing wrong by trying to provide the best healthcare for your bunny
. Although I have not experienced this in particular, the overall theme of "knowing your vet" hits hard for me, as I almost lost Dr. Cheese after only having him under 6 months after adopting him so I do understand the frustration of feeling like you were lied to or ripped off in some way. I took him to my usual bun vet after adopting him concerned about his cecotropes appearing "leaky" as he was leaving stains on his matts, so the vet requested he go on an all hay diet and provided dietary instructions to do so. Fast forward a few months from then, and I almost lost him because of this vet's direction, and a SECONDARY vet I took him to when I was concerned about his health told me he was fine despite losing weight. A week after they told me he was completely fine, the same vet recommended I take him to an emergency rabbit specialist 1.5 hours away to do testing, get him on an IV, and do more bloodwork or he was going to die within 24hrs. All of this cost me about $1500 in the first 4 months of owning him: and the final diagnoses was "anorexia" due to his malnutrition from not receiving pellets as requested by his original vet.Apologies for the tangent, but I will always share this story when relevant because it is so upsetting when responsible rabbit owners such as yourself try to provide the best health for their buns and end up being deceived. I truly hope that your situation was purely incidental and not a reflection on the veterinarian's skillset. I do not blame you for your fears in getting your future buns fixed, but I also would emphasize that you did absolutely nothing wrong by trying to provide the best healthcare for your bunny
❣
TreasuredFriend
Well-Known Member
TreasuredFriend
Well-Known Member
Facebook and RO forums have search functions wrt veterinarians that are experienced. Hence I did an RO search on vets and found the link above. ^
Bun parents also mention the good and the bad about experiences with a certain clinic or DVM, etc.
I was trying to locate the state-by-state listing that RO members chimed in on since 2006. It is helpful to get personal feedback. from rescues and bun parents. Staff changes can make your preference and decisions change, also. Bedside manner to ease stress together with a DVM's expertise can also factor into decisions.
I request certain CVTs or assistants whenever possible. I have go-to DVMs that I trust to sp/euter (since 2003).
I am devastated though when our fur-babies do not survive a surgery. Our street-rescue gal Marietta estimate bdate Feb. 2005 (NZW, that was dumped outdoors and gave birth to nine in our home in 2006 prior to her spay appt) passed away in her 3rd mammary gland tumor surgery in January 2014.
Bun parents also mention the good and the bad about experiences with a certain clinic or DVM, etc.
I was trying to locate the state-by-state listing that RO members chimed in on since 2006. It is helpful to get personal feedback. from rescues and bun parents. Staff changes can make your preference and decisions change, also. Bedside manner to ease stress together with a DVM's expertise can also factor into decisions.
I request certain CVTs or assistants whenever possible. I have go-to DVMs that I trust to sp/euter (since 2003).
I am devastated though when our fur-babies do not survive a surgery. Our street-rescue gal Marietta estimate bdate Feb. 2005 (NZW, that was dumped outdoors and gave birth to nine in our home in 2006 prior to her spay appt) passed away in her 3rd mammary gland tumor surgery in January 2014.
Barbara
Well-Known Member
So sorry for your loss. My guy just turned one year old and as of now there is no reason for me to bring him in to have this surgery done. He pees in his litter box every time. Other than trying to hump my leg every night when I put him away he is just fine as is. I just can't bring myself to risk it.
