Bumps in ears, wet nose and eyes

[MILU]

I've been very worried about Bilem (read "Beelain"), the bunny I'm fostering..
Before she came here, she has been beaten by other rabbits (not sure about people), she had her eye tore, I don't know what else. So the area above her left eye is a little swollen, but ok.
What actually worries me is that she always has some red spots in her ears, I don't know if she made them by scratching or what. I can see little circular bumps inside her ears (as big as pimples, but with no stuff inside them). I also see the red scratches. Deep inside the ear, I can see white stuff, I can't tell what it is 'cause, unlike MILU, this bunny won't let me really handle her much.

I saw an article about using honey to treat ear mites and tries it (although I don't know what she has).
http://voices.yahoo.com/how-honey-cure-ear-mites-rabbits-more-4801060.html
I diluted a little bit in water and sprayed it in her ears, not much and not well 'cause she always ran away and it's hard to try to treat her. I did that for quite some time, as I know 1 month of treatment is required. I still see red spots and bumps in her ear, got no clue what it can be.
The girls from whom I got this bunny said there's no mixo here (I was worried about that too) so thank God that's not it

I also noticed, since she arrived, that her nose is always wet. MILU and Fedorento (my 1st bunny) used to sneeze, and had this issue too, so I don't know if something here is bad for bunnies or if they all come like this. I noticed the wet nose since Bilem arrived here.
Now her eyes are getting a little too wet too.

I try to give tree branches for Bilem to bite (to prevent dental issues) but she hates them. The pushes them instead of biting. If anything, she bites ME, as she knows I'm the one who's holding the stick on her face. She's very smart, and likes things her way… won't really fall for any of my tricks..
Any suggestions on what she might have, and what sort of treatment I could try?
Thanks for your help!

* My internet is slow, but I'll post pics asap

 

[Honey and Brownie]

it wont get your bunny better but when my rabbits get scared i give them banana and they become calm. hope this helps a bit and i hope you bunny gets well soon xxxx:thumbup

 

[tonyshuman]

It could be a number of things. It sounds a lot like when our Big Bunny had a fungal infection in his ears. He had the same red dots and white stuff in his ears. The white stuff was dry skin that had come off after being irritated by the infection, and the red dots were from him trying to scratch at it. It would be best to take him to a vet to get a better idea of what's causing the problem. I also wouldn't treat it with honey. There are a lot of things on the internet that are just not supported by real scientific study, and this honey thing sounds like that.

The bunny could also have an ear infection that's making her scratch at her ears, causing the red dots, and causing a lot of gunk to come out of the ears, leading to the white stuff. The ear infection could be related to an upper respiratory infection. Is there any other possible reason for the buns having wet noses? A type of bedding or hay, dust or dry air? It sounds more likely to me that she has an ear infection and is getting an upper respiratory infection.

 

[ladysown]

white stuff would be fungal...get the honey out of there as it would just be FOOD for the fungal infection.

Get the rabbit to a vet and properly cared for.

 

[MILU]

 

[MILU]

I don't know if you can see some white stuff deep inside her ear (strands? Crust collection?)

 

[MILU]

Thanks for the advice, everybody! I stopped the honey treatment as I didn't see much improvement. I guess the white stuff is, like Claire mentioned, skin debris (from scratching) accumulated in her ears.

I don't know ANY decent vets here.. I'm in São Paulo, Brazil, and this city has always sucked when it comes to rabbit savvy vets.
This bunny was seen by a vet before she came to me (she had baby bunnies too, before I got her) and the vet said she's "fine". So I can't really count on them. Once a vet had to check MILU's ears and his otoscope was out of batteries, and instead of asking his assistant to get batteries, he asked him to bring a soda. Unbelievable, but that's how things work here (doctors suck too).. I appreciate any input from you, since Rabbits Online and the infirmary section was my MILU's help and salvation.

By the way, yes, Bilem goes to dusty areas here she isn't supposed to go. So maybe that's where she got the wet nose from? I also give her alfalfa hay that even I sneeze when I touch it.. I don't like it for that reason, but Bilem loves it, so I give it to her....

* It's great to hear again from you, Claire, I really appreciate all you did for my MILU! And now for Bilem too :big kiss:
Thank you Ladysown too for your very important input. :thumbup
And Thank you Honey and Brownie for the banana tip! :thumbup

 

[MILU]

Here's a pic of her nose. It never looked so bad, it's usually better than that

There's no gunk or white stuff coming out of her ears though, only nose.

 

[ladysown]

okay....now that we have pictures that helps.

Do you have access to some oil?

She looks like she has ear mites indeed....and you need oil to kill those if you don't have ivermectin on hand???? Ivermectin will kill off mites, but a bit of clean (not used) veggie oil will do the trick as well. Put a little (so not a ton) in the ear. MASSAGE THE EAR and then back away VERY quickly. She will shake and get gunk EVERYWHERE.

Takes about 10-12 days to kill 'em dead (because of how the eggs hatch). And if they've gone in really deep you'll need a qualified vets assistance to get the debris etc out of there). But generally they don't go in really deep and using some oil...Some people will mix the oil with a touch of iodine. I've done it both ways with equal success. Do this every other day. And yes, you will need to catch her and hold her securely (if she's particularly disagreeable get a strong willed friend to help). She (the rabbit) won't be happy with you, but TOUGH LUCK...she'll need to cope as you have her best interests at heart. Just reward her with her favourite greens after the fact.

as to the wet nose....I can't advise you. wet noses can be a sign of stress (ear mites), be a sign of damage (could she have hit her nose shaking b/c of the ear mites?), be a sign of illness, heat stroke (unlikely as she's still living), or some say allergies....Is it dusty where you are at or is this a long term condition? Could also be indicative of a tooth problem....is she eating and drinking well?

If it's a long term condition I'd be inclined to stay illness. of what particularly, I really couldn't say.

 

[MILU]

Wow, THANK YOU, Ladysown!!!!
So, just to get the details right - I have olive oil and soy oil (cooking oils) at hand. Would they be ok? I can see if I find ivermectin, I'll buy it if they sell it in the pharmacy here. Not sure though.
If I need to use the oil, how much should I apply? I mean, should it run down her ears? Won't it affect her hearing or damage her ear later? I was worried about that when I tried to use honey, so I sprayed as little as possible.

How should I insert it in her ear? Syringe? If so, how many ml, more or less?

She doesn't like me much, it's hard to even pet her sometimes. She had a bunny friend that was adopted and all she knows is that I'm the "mean" person who put her friend in a cage and the cage came back but the bunny didn't. She never stepped foot to play in that cage again, and never forgave me for that
But I'll have bananas at hand, and surely will give her some good veggies too, so I'll try to massage the oil, but I don't know how deep I can massage it into her ear (or if she'll really let me make it at all).

Yes, there are dusty areas here and she is very skilled in getting there. She's very smart, she climbs very tall things (I don't know how, I blocked the way but she still makes it to the top!) and she's not shy of breaking doors to get where she wants. So I guess dust can have its part in the nose issue.
I sort of feared dental issues too, as she refuses to bite anything hard. Yesterday I found a truck loaded with hay, gave it to her.. she didn't really like it
I bother her putting a wood stick at her face (to make her bite it) but it's hard to make her bite it. She pushes it instead, or - I'm telling you she's smart! - she bites my finger instead. She knows that if she bites my finger, the stick will fall and won't be at her face anymore.. LOL (the stick technique used to work with MILU.. but I just can't win with this new bunny, it seems!!!)
I get her to give it a few bites.. but not as many as I'd like her to.

 

[ladysown]

i find olive oil goes rancid quickly, a simple veggie or canola oil is what i would use.
It's hard to say just how much to use....not that much...just enough that you can massage it in (easier to show this in person rather than on the internet). It doesn't look like it has gone deep, as really bad cases of ear mites the whole ear is crusted over and hangs down.

YOU HAVE TO massage it in. That's how you can break up the crusties so they fly out of the ear (and yes, it makes a BIG mess). You also will need to do a REALLY good clean or she will just get them back again.

 

[tonyshuman]

The oil treatment can work if you can't get a hold of other remedies. Mineral oil or baby oil is probably the best. I do think it looks more like ear mites than a fungal infection, though. For the dusty hay, can you maybe shake it out outside so that she doesn't get so much of the dust? Her nose doesn't look too bad but having wet skin can lead to fungal infection. Too bad your vets are so ridiculous. Good to hear from you again too!

 

[Watermelons]

You should be able to get ahold of ear cleanser at any vet with out seeing the dr. This is 100x better then using oil as especially for issue prone ears you want it to stay dry most of the time so other issues dont appear. If you do decide to use oil as claire mentioned its best to use mineral or baby. As per ear cleaners you want a vet one not a pet store one as vet ones usually have the added benifit of altering the ph of the ear environment so bugs and bacteria are less likely to want to visit in there.
You should still look into aquiring ivermectin or my fave Selamectin ( revolution @18mg/kg) (may be able to purchase off craigslist or phone around and see if any vets will dispense a single tube with no visit)

 

[ladysown]

the reason to use the oil is that is smothers the mites so they can't breathe. Ear cleaner won't do that.

 

[MILU]

Thanks everybody, and thanks Ladysown!
I don't know about getting ear cleaner here like what you got, don't forget I'm 2 worlds below yours.. :bow
So yes, I'm looking for simple solutions, that (hopefully) I could try myself, since our vets not only overlook issues and misdiagnose bunnies, but also kill them. Now I understand why the massage, but still wonder if I should pour oil in a way it runs down the ear or if I should only apply on the ear "walls" without letting it run down.

- Do you think it'd be more or less what, 3 drops of oil a ear, or a tablespoon of oil/ear??

Her ears don't look that bad, they look ok much of the time, just not perfect. I'd like to have the debris removed from her ears but that'd be something difficult to do. Do you think the mites live at her place now? There's some carpet there, should I wash it or vacuuming should be ok? Can we see them or they're too small to see?

I hope I'm strong enough (emotionally) to massage her ears and break crusts.. I mean, there aren't "crusts" except for debris inside her ears, but sometimes I see some little eruptions in her ear walls.. I guess that's what you mean, I'd have to break them open, right? :faint:

 

[MILU]

It's great to hear from you again too, Tonyshuman! I hope everything is fine with you! :big kiss:

 

[JBun]

Don't break anything open or remove crusts unless it is already loose and you can just pick it off. Trying to remove crusts attached to the ear is going to cause your rabbit pain. If you go with the oil, I think it has to be done every day, and you only put 3-4 drops in there, and if you get a chance to massage the base of the ear, then do so to sort of spread the oil around it there, but most likely as soon as you get the drops in there, your rabbit is going to start shaking it's head to get the oil out, which is ok, it will help spread the oil around. The crusts will start breaking up and loosening on their own. Your rabbit should just shake the loose crusts out on her own.

If you can get a hold of ivermectin, that is going to be a much easier solution for the mites. You only need to give it once, and then repeat again in 2 weeks to get any remaining eggs that hatch, you can also do a third treatment in another 2 weeks, to be sure you got them all. Ivermectin is a fairly common antiparasitic used for livestock. You may be able to pick some up at a feed or tractor supply. You want the liquid ivermectin 1% solution. Then you just put 3 drops in each ear. The other one that works well for mites is the Revolution(selamectin) and is applied topically behind the head between the shoulders once, then repeat in 2 weeks. It is just a topical flea and tick application used on cats and dogs. So you may be able to find it where they sell cat and dog stuff. Here it is prescription, but it may not be where you are at. Just make sure NOT to get Frontline(fipronil). It is toxic to rabbits.

It would be a good idea to clean as best you can, after you start treating for the mites. You should also treat your other rabbits at the same time.

 

[Watermelons]

Most ear cleaners that do a proper job are generally sold world wide at vets. We not looking for anything amazing here, just a few special words on the bottle, nothing too tough.
In your case, yes simple is better, but you also dont want to take short cuts and possibly make the situation worse since you dont have as easy availablity for vet choices. You are still in a main enough city that we should be able to locate some decent things that will help out.
And yes you will have to deal with the environment. if you decide to "try" and oil them... you will be dealing with the environment every day for possible months... You may kill some here or there but more will pop up and join the party. Washing clothing and blankets, vacuuming carpets, freezing items that cant be washed, etc. If you decide to deal with the environment, and there are living mites on your rabbit when you're done, their just going to go elsewhere for the time being. The faster you get rid of them the better. The cleaner you keep the ears the better, and keep them dry to avoid other issues.

 

[MILU]

Thanks Jbun and Watermelons!
Yes, I'll have to wash everything here... I don't know how spread these mites are at my home. My bunny arrived here more or less 2.5 months ago, she already had this issue. When I talked to the girl who gave me her, she said Bilém was been seen by a vet and the rashes in her ear were only scratches 'cause her nails were long... I suspected they weren't just nail scratches and observed them.. and now hopefully will eradicate the problem.

This bunny was sold as "food" (i.e. didn't live in the best environment) then the buyer didn't have courage to cook her and decided to dump her and other 2 bunnies in the street. She had babies, had fights with other rabbits, and only after a lot of drama she came here.
I got soy oil here, if it's ok I'll use it today on her while I don't have Ivermectin.

 

[Watermelons]

Phone around and see if you can get your hands on a few doses of Ivermectin or Selamectin (Called Revolution) from either a vet that will sell you some with out seeing the animal (more likely down there of that happening then up here) or from another person if the vets wont sell you any. Check classified type sites like craigslist. http://saopaulo.pt.craigslist.org/ I would check the Community section (top left) or the For sale section (middle bottom), might be somebody in the grooming industry under Services but who knows just keep checking! Dont forget your other bun should be treated too.