At what point do you stop trying to pick up an unruly bunny?

[Imbrium]

Ouch!! Poor sis!

Unfortunately, many bunns are quick to take advantage if they sense weakness or vulnerability of some sort in the creature trying to pick them up - it's simple instinct for a fragile prey animal skilled in evasive maneuvers. That's wonderful if they're being whisked away by a predator who wants to make a meal out of them... not so much when some poor nervous human is trying to learn how to handle them for their own safety and well-being.

I see the same thing in my sugar gliders who aren't bonded to me yet - I get nervous sometimes because they're so quick to bite the sh*t out of you and I'm anticipating a bite (which usually results in bleeding - they're capable of biting as painfully as a bunny, if not moreso, and can potentially lock down into a bite like a freaking vice grip)... it's when I'm nervous that they're most likely to lunge at me for that bite. When you know something that fits in your hand (or lap, in the case of a bunny) is capable of inflicting serious pain on you and more than willing to do so, it can definitely be challenging to regulate your breathing, heart rate, etc. in order to appear calm and collected!

 

[aozora]

I know! I feel bad for her, but at the same time I had to defend Mocha when she got mad at him for it because honestly, it's basic instinct for him to snap out at her like that. He normally doesn't like her that much - I think mostly because she hardly handles him - but it really didn't help that she was so nervous and darted her hand away like that after slipping it under his tummy.

It's definitely going to make it tougher to convince her to keep trying to get used to handling him from now on, though! *sigh*

 

[Imbrium]

Perhaps in a couple days (when the bite's healed up a bit and not so fresh in her memory) you can talk her into "one more try" before giving up, then convince her to use some relaxation techniques before her next attempt and maybe even guide her through them - if it makes a big difference, that may be all the encouragement she needs to continue working with him. It's very discouraging to consistently have bad experiences and feel like you're stuck in a hopeless downward spiral of one step forward/two steps back... making significant progress after a seemingly simple change in tactics is SO refreshing - suddenly you've got a reason to believe you'll continue to make progress.

 

[aozora]

I think I'll try that! I'm also working on convincing her to just give him a treat and pet him on the head-- nothing drastic or anything, just gentle pets for him to get used to her touching him. He's still very cautious around her and refuses to take a treat out of her hand-- but he'll take it out of mine the next second with no problems, and he'll eat it if she sets it on the floor in front of him so it's not like he's shunning treats entirely!

 

[Troller]

I've developed the confidence over time to pick up my rabbits, but my Conan has this sense you speak of that knows when Im about to do it. It never fails, he's okay with me hovering around me but the second the intent is formed he bolts for the litterbox or closest, deepest corner of his cage. My mistake was making the cage so deep in the first place but oh well.

Personally once I decide to pick up my rabbits I dont stop. If i know my buns are getting anxious by my attempts I may slow it down a bit, but they will get picked up eventually. I sometimes coax them, I sometimes just chase them down, but they always get a treat for the trouble.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Ok that was stressful!!!!!

I approached Sophie with a treat. I covered her eyes. She took off like a gazelle. She hid in her cage. I was able to coax her out of her cage so I gave her a treat for that. I covered her eyes again, she took off again. I approached her again, covered her eyes with my hand. She stayed put. I removed my had after 5 seconds and gave her another treat. I repeated this 5 more times. The last time I covered her eyes I didn't give her a treat but I massaged her face and ears instead. I repeated this a few more times so she seemed ok with me covering her eyes.

So I thought ok, I feel ok about this so maybe I will try to pick her up....spidey senses alert! She ran away. Ok no problem, I still felt fairly confident so I passively followed her around. She jumped on the couch and without hesitation I covered her face with a small blanket, bear hugged her, I could feel her struggling under me but I did not let her go. Good thing I used that blanket because I could feel her biting the heck out of it.

At this point I knew I had to follow through with flipping her over so I sort of held her head and body secure and while flipping her I also pulled her right against my body(I was kneeling beside the couch).

So she's on her back at this point, no kicking. She is very scared and her breathing is very fast, like how she is when at the vet. Her eyes are still covered but I moved the blanket away from her nose and mouth because I was afraid of suffocating her.

I held her on her back, I'm hoping I didn't have her in that trance position. I kept her like that for about 20 seconds then very carefully turned her. She did struggle a bit to gain her footing at the end of the turn over.

She jumped off the couch. I quickly gave her two treats, praised her and let her nibble a bit of wheat grass. She went back into her condo to relax and she came back out about 5 minutes later and is acting normal.

I am however a basket case! I'm not sure how on earth I did this but I somehow pulled my muscle in my frontal rib!! Wtf man! Lol...my heart rate is just now returning to normal.

Did I do ok or did I push her too far? I feel bad at the moment worrying

 

[Imbrium]

He's still very cautious around her and refuses to take a treat out of her hand-- but he'll take it out of mine the next second with no problems, and he'll eat it if she sets it on the floor in front of him so it's not like he's shunning treats entirely!

If he won't even take a treat from her, then I suspect she may be rushing things by trying to pick him up. It would be good for her to spend time in his general vicinity without pushing him to interact, talking to him as she sits with him.

It never fails, he's okay with me hovering around me but the second the intent is formed he bolts for the litterbox or closest, deepest corner of his cage.

Good to know we're not the only ones who feel like our bunnies can read our minds, lol. I don't know how the heck do they know the split second that "intent" pops into your head, but they truly do. It seems like being borderline mute makes them more tuned into telepathic abilities.

We've seen Nala send telepathic commands to Gaz before - Gaz is the give-away; if she's off in her own little world and gets startled by an abrupt command (usually related to one of us humans walking into the room), it's blatantly obvious . We've also seen Nala successfully send a command to our kitten that sends her running away. We've seen her try to send commands to our nearly 16 year old cat, Roo - he never obeys, but sometimes appears to send her a silent "screw you." We've even seen her attempt to command us at times. It sounds absolutely crazy if you've never experienced it, but that bunny's got some mental prowess! Nala is smart as a whip... Gazzles, bless her heart, is a little on the slow side. Gaz doesn't appear to know how to send thoughts, only receive them from Nala. Gaz is also hit-and-miss on reading our minds to see that "intent," while Nala catches even the tiniest whiff of it immediately every time.

~~~~~

@ Sophie's Humble Servent - Whew! Sounds like an ordeal!

It sounds like the focus on covering her eyes is probably making things worse (aside from preventing bites, which is always good). She sounds awfully agitated if she was biting the blanket that much, though. I've never used the covering the eyes tactic - I don't think it's necessary and it seems very uncondusive to building trust. It sounds like it might be a viable tactic in a pinch if you HAVE to handle a rabbit, but I don't see any benefit in using it during trust-building exercises.

Trancing is more than just position... but some rabbits are more stressed by being on their back than others. I often notice an increase in heart rate and breathing with Gazzles, while Nala is more comfortable with it.

Do NOT worry about things, as that will only make it worse... but I would recommend taking it more slowly next time.

Also, I don't remember if it's been mentioned at some point - how much does she weigh (approximate weight is fine)? The way you're describing things, she sounds like a pretty large bunny. You can lovingly strong-arm a huge creature the same way you can a little bunn (my tactics on our 16 lb cat are nearly identical to what I do with our bunns)... however, the process of learning how to confidently use those tactics is going to be much more difficult if you're learning on a big bunny because it's more challenging to keep their entire body fully supported as you're reigning them in. Also, for a large bunny, my advice of "just flip them over really quickly" is far less viable - that's a lot of weight to safely shift around, especially when they're struggling!

It may be a good idea to back-track a bit and stop trying to pick her up (or at the very least, to get her turned over) for a while and focus on trust-building instead.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Sophie weighs 4.5 pounds so I think that means she's medium sized?

I guess I know I can secure her if I have to but yeah I'd prefer if biting wasn't the result.

 

[aozora]

If he won't even take a treat from her, then I suspect she may be rushing things by trying to pick him up. It would be good for her to spend time in his general vicinity without pushing him to interact, talking to him as she sits with him.

Oh for sure! I actually suggested the same thing to her-- sit on the rug, browse on her iPad and let him come to her. He didn't go up to her, but he did hop into his upside down willow twigloo nearby and I showed her how he likes to be petted. He still struck me as a little tense even though she was stroking all his favourite spots like I instructed though.

I think she got impatient after seeing me plop him on my lap for some more petting (he's gotten a lot better about that and would actually stay on my lap for a few minutes before hopping off now! HUGE improvement for him even though that sounds like nothing!), and she told me to put him on her lap too..... Guess which naughty bunny jumped right off her lap immediately AND gave her a bunny feet flick of contempt??

I think we have a long way to go with these two...

 

[Imbrium]

Sophie weighs 4.5 pounds so I think that means she's medium sized?

I guess I know I can secure her if I have to but yeah I'd prefer if biting wasn't the result.

Oh, really? Man, I wish I had access to a struggling demonstration bunny! I don't know how much it'll help if I use an unhappy but fairly complaint bunny (though she's nipped me on the boob a time or two >.>), but I can try to make a video with Gazzles tomorrow - she's about the same size. She does attempt to struggle during nail trims if I don't thwart her, so I may be able to get some useful video.

I think she got impatient after seeing me plop him on my lap for some more petting (he's gotten a lot better about that and would actually stay on my lap for a few minutes before hopping off now! HUGE improvement for him even though that sounds like nothing!), and she told me to put him on her lap too..... Guess which naughty bunny jumped right off her lap immediately AND gave her a bunny feet flick of contempt??

I think we have a long way to go with these two...

If you don't mind me asking, what's your sister's age (or general age range)? From all your posts, it sounds like age is coming into play here - knowing how old she is might help me get a better idea of the situation

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

That'd be awesome if you could post a video

I know one thing, there is no way I'm going to have Sophie leave the ground or the couch until I'm satisfied I can keep her calm.

 

[aozora]

She's actually older than me, almost 30! But our household has never had pets of any sort and Mocha is the first one ever, so everyone is pretty lost about how to care for him (you should have seen me the first few weeks or so, I was probably researching everyday for information on how to look after and act around Mocha!)

I am the one who looks after him pretty much; I graduated from uni recently but have been having troubles with job hunting so I have a lot of time to bond with Mocha and build trust. My sister on the other hand has a full time job so she only pops into my room in the late evenings/on days off and tries to play with him, but he usually ignores or runs away from her unless she has a treat on her. He'll take from her hand if he's hungry enough but more often than not just waits for her to set it down first. I don't think it helps that her favourite activity with him is using his favourite towel and waving it around like a matador would with a bull-- it gets him super riled up and he chases/lunges at the towel and grunts like crazy! It's pretty amusing to watch, but I think maybe now he has started associating her with that frustrating activity?

 

[Imbrium]

LOL! I *so* had you pegged as the older sibling . At first, it sounded like you were both adults... but then after a while I couldn't tell if she was younger/an impatient teenager or if you guys were adults but your frustration with her impatience was causing it to stand out extra.

Instigating a bunny can be pretty darn amusing, but I agree, it's probably not helpful that it's her main form of interacting with him.

 

[aozora]

I always tell her I'm the mature one, but she never believes me! *cough*

But yes, I can be pretty frustrated at her sometimes due to her impatience, lack of knowledge or both. She hasn't done any reading up about rabbits and most of the time what I tell her about Mocha goes in one ear and out the other, so she's not familiar with rabbit behaviour and doesn't realize how long it's taken me to even be able to pick him up without struggling or set him on my lap. He used to be so good at it that if there were kickboxing competitions for rabbits he could probably contend for the championship! Luckily he hardly tried to bite me during his struggles (he tries that mostly when I'm trying to groom him), but I do think my lack of confidence and fear of hurting him played a big part... it's hard not to when you see all those warnings about rabbits' fragile spines!

Oh, one thing that I did think of (and is actually relevant to this thread!!) just now for Beverly-- I think what really changed things with Mocha was when I learned to turn him towards me as I pick him up so that all four of his paws rested against my chest and stomach. Not only is he no longer able to kick because his hind feet are resting directly on my tummy with my hand under his bum to support him, I can either hug or stroke him with my free hand as well. I think that position feels a lot safer to him because while he might crane his neck and look down from side to side, he never struggles to jump out of my arms like his tail is on fire anymore. Does he still look and act scared? Well, yes... but I think he's just the sort of bunny who will never enjoy getting picked up even though he's learned to tolerate it. Anyway, I hope that might be of help to you, Beverly!

 

[aozora]

One more thing to note-- I think Mocha tends to be pretty skittish compared to many of the other buns owned by members on this forum, but related to your topic question of what point do I stop picking him up (or set him down after I've picked him up):

Sometimes, I notice that when Mocha is very agitated, he would start breathing heavily enough for me to hear it even without bringing my ear close. That's sort of the first/lesser warning sign. But sometimes he would also do a tooth grinding that sounds very different from his tooth purring-- it almost sounds like grinding glass shards? I've read that bunnies do that when they're really scared, and that's the point when I either give up or I set him down if I already have him in my arms. I'm not sure if you've experienced that before - or if you ever will - but with my own bun that's basically when I back off and let him be. I don't think it's worth it to scare him to that point just to get him used to being picked up, not to mention I think it's the length of time you keep at it (ie. doing it on a consistent basis even if you're just picking him up for a minute or two) rather than how extreme you go that is more important.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Do you lift him under the rump and chest then bring him towards your body?

Maybe you can post a video too!

 

[aozora]

Yes I do! I usually have to corner him to do it because he runs around for a while-- in his case, I don't think he considers it a give-and-chase game because he doesn't like being picked up, but once I have him cornered he would crouch and try to flatten his tummy to the ground as much as he can and generally look really put out lol. I like to slip my right hand under his tummy first and sort of secure his two front feet between my fingers (thumb on the right side, index finger between his front feet, and the other three fingers on the left). If he does a huge jump out of my hand and hops away, I just let him go, follow him to his new crouching spot and repeat and rinse until he gives up and lets me put my other hand behind his bum.

Then I tighten my grip with my right hand and push his bum up with my left so that his feet are a bit up in the air and turn him. He hates not having good footing - not sure if that's the same for your Sophie though - so the moment I start turning him, he literally scrambles to put all four paws on me because that's when he feels safest-- all four paws on something that isn't slippery! You need to get used to it because the first couple of times I was worried he might scratch me with his nails and I didn't really hold him that well so he squirmed free and jumped (luckily I was on my knees so it wasn't a big jump). It may hurt if you're wearing thin clothing and she has long nails, just keep that in mind.

Once I have him plastered to my front, I just support his bum with my left hand and stand up. But just in case she does try to kick you, don't let your left hand go slack - though it shouldn't anyway since it's supporting his weight. By that point he's too scared/nervous to even consider biting, not to mention he's practically standing straight up on his bum in a sense (like 90 degrees to the ground?) so it's almost like biting is the last thing on his mind. Nowadays when I set him down I sort of let him slide off my front so he eases down to the ground between my legs bum-first rather than feet first, which is great because 1) he can't kick and 2) he always has to put his front paws on me to get his bearings first before hopping away, so even if he tries to nip by that time I've got my hands free and away from biting distance!

I'll try to do a video, maybe I can get my sister to film it for me? I'll ask her!

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

What if I get bit? If by chance I'm actually able to not let her go out of instinct when she bites me, should I keep ahold of her? At this point she's really hating me if I'm getting bit but if I let her go I guess I would be teaching her that biting means you get let go?

 

[Rainbow_Foxes]

Females usually hate their bellies touched, babies are the only ones allowed. Grab around her shoulders with one hand and scoop up her butt with the other instead. Some are calm enough to allow one hand under their necks supporting their chests and the other hand on their butts. Or even lift like a person, hands on their sides.
Some rabbits will suddenly start hating being lifted if bad things happen afterwards. Like nail trimming or too much fussing over them.

 

[lovelops]

Well, if you've failed, then the bunny has escaped your clutches and scampered off, so obviously they've just run away from their chances of getting a treat .

Jennifer

I wanted to add to this since I saw the pics of your Broken Holland Lop in your avatar who looks almost exactly like the one I just rescued who was about to be put down. Maybe this is the wrong place to post this but it ties into picking up also so here we go..

I just rescued two bunnies... the Holland Lop and a giant bunny who I have no idea what kind she is other than she is about a year old and going on 10 pounds.. She is bigger than my chihuahua's...

I can pick up the Giant bunny no problems and she loves food, doesn't mind being held.. etc.. She will NIP which I find to be annoying because my two bunnies I've had since they were two kits in the same litter do not do any of this and are just so sweet... they are Agoutis...

Anyway the Holland Lop which I love to death can be the biggest brat and I can't pick her up half the time which is annoying. She throws the sand out of her litter box, when I took her to get her nails trimmed and brushed and her teeth trimmed she hopped out of her carrier in the kitchen and promptly came over and bit me on the behind.. I mean she is a bit 'high spirited' but at times she will stretch out beside me and lay down while I pet and stroke her which makes up for all the times she nips me and acts like a brat. Since she was a rescue, I know she is not going to be perfect and she is 8 going on 9 months old.

How can I start working on getting her to allow me to pick her up? Some times I need to and it's just like pulling teeth.

Also if anyone has any experience with Rescues and or Lops and can tell me if this is 'normal' behavior for them it would be greatly appreciated. I just got her and the giant one fixed because the first day I got them from the rescue they got in a fight over food and the Lop bit the giant bunny which surprised me.. I learned something new...

Thanks!
Vanessa