At what point do you stop trying to pick up an unruly bunny?

[aozora]

I wouldn't put it pass him to do it on purpose, especially given the things I was saying both times it happened! First time was when I was about to say he naturally turns to face me and put his front paws on me... and of course he chose that exact moment to make his leap. Second time I think I was saying something about how he usually stays still when I'm holding him like that, so of course to make his point he did the exact opposite thing again, and thus I gave up lol!

Aww I wish Mocha enjoys being caught too instead of looking put out like I just grounded him or something! But I think maybe he does enjoy the actual chase portion after all-- usually he hops all around to various corners and then seems to "give up"-- you know, turns to face me and crouches and puts his head down while trying to look as pitiful as possible. Then when I put my hands around him, he just hops right up and off he goes again! Grrrrr!

Does Nala do much by way of jumping? With so much energy I'd imagine she'd be hopping up on things she shouldn't be hopping on too!

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Thanks for the video Amy, I appreciate you posting it. I flipped Sophie on her back again tonight, though definitely not as swiftly as you guys. I'm really worried that she's going to bite me so I have a blanket that I use to cover her upper body. Unfortunately, the blanket also gets in the way of my turning her. Since I'm not confident enough to let her body leave the couch while flipping, I've been rolling her over onto her back rather than flipping. I wanted to see and feel her body movements but not get bit...my technique is sloppy at the moment but at least I am getting her onto her back. I actually stood up with her in my arms. She's still breathing quite fast but I'm hoping she'll get better as we practice more. I need to ditch the blanket maybe and get myself a pair of gauntlets to wear on my arms lol. It is true that once they're on their backs they don't move and struggle as much. It's really getting them to that point that's the hard part. Well, for me anyway

 

[kmaben]

So been checking in on this thread and I'm a little confused as to why Sophie has to be flipped on her back. I understand people who show rabbits but just as a house pet? I worked with Sarah ( a rabbit shower/breeder) on how to flip Shya and Kai and man was it ridiculous to figure it out on a 17 pound giant. When I want to trim nails, groom him, or look him over he gets picked up and put on the washing machine. That's my groom table for all three of them. Nightly they have a routine where they get checked over, groomed, and nails trimmed as needed. Maybe they're just pretty exceptional about standing still for a nail trim. Maybe we do it so often they're all just use to it. I dont know. Kai my 17 pounder hates to be picked up due to his giant size and I have gotten bitten by giant teeth for it. Multiple times. He finally resigned to the fact it happens every night and that on occasion he has to be picked up to be moved somewhere. He's also resigned to the fact that even biting mom does not get you put down. He will take his frustrations out on a towel now instead of my biceps. (People were begining to think my husband was abusing me due to the large bruises Kai would leave!) But I finally got smart and started wearing my winter jacket when I knew I'd be working with him.
If I have to check bellies for matting or grooming issues I set him on my lap put his back to my chest, tuck my arm under his forelegs and hold him up to groom or clean as needed. His butt is in my lap and he's "sitting" on his butt not standing on his back legs. This he tolerates but not getting flipped on his back. I'm sure if I really wanted to work with him I could flip him on his back but I figured why stress him when I've found an alternative that works? Shya and Franklin will let me put them on their backs but they dont particularlly seem to enjoy it so it I dont. (actually it's kind of hard to tell with Franklin since he turns into playdough when you pick him up)

Sorry for the horrible spelling. I'm on a governement computer and they dont like spell check.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I want to be able to securely handle her, be able to pick her up, get her out of her cage in an emergency without having her hurt herself because I don't know what I'm doing, nail trims, body inspections. I hate that I have to take her to a vet to trim her nails. I'm of the mind that if you have a pet, you should be able to groom them and do the basic things for them. I've been cutting cats nails most if my life and able to inspect every animal I've ever had. Sophie is proving to be a challenge with this but I am determined. I need to get her used to these movements and I need to learn how she's going to react. If I knew for certain that I would never have to trim her nails or that there would never be an emergency then no, I wouldn't even be doing this at all but since nothing is certain I feel I would be remiss to not prepare.

If Sophie was the type of rabbit who just "sat" there while I inspected her that would be great! But she's not. She won't sit on my lap....I can't just pick her up, she freaks out...I have to immobilise her...well until she gets used to being handled lol

 

[Imbrium]

I flipped Sophie on her back again tonight, though definitely not as swiftly as you guys. I'm really worried that she's going to bite me so I have a blanket that I use to cover her upper body. Unfortunately, the blanket also gets in the way of my turning her.

I don't suppose you own a thick sweater, sweatshirt or jacket that you could wear? It seems like that might get in the way a lot less .

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I was looking through my sweaters thinking, ok, which one of these would I be ok if Sophie turned it into Swiss cheese lol...yes, I think at some point I've got to forgo the blanket. I'm just a bit worried about doing that because of the way I'm turning her at the moment...the blanket was helping to contain her a bit until I could turn her over. Argh I know I shouldn't get used to using it because then it'll be hard to stop. At the moment before I'm turning her, I'm wrapping myself around her to prevent her from getting away, snugging her up to my body then very awkwardly rolling her over. I have a bad feeling that this won't go so well if she can see and I don't have that blanket partially encasing her. This wouldn't be an issue if I felt comfortable enough actually lifting her off the ground...The getting off the ground thing is THE THING that haunts me lol....I'm scared to do it! At some point in the future when I'm a pro at this, I will look back and wonder what all the fuss and nervousness was about. But for now.....the plot thickens!!!!!!

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Another huge motivating factor in needing to properly handle her is because I am moving out of province in the spring. I will be taking Sophie on an airplane and in order to go through the security checks, I HAVE to remove her from her carrier and be able to hold her and walk through the security checkpoint. I've already called the airport security to tell them about my fears of having to remove a potentially uncooperative animal from a carrier and how they can get injured. Chances are I will be able to go into a private room with Sophie for the inspection which would be great but I still have to be able to safely remove her and put her back in. No vet tech there to help me out, it'll be my problem:S

 

[kmaben]

I was wandering if maybe "stages" would help. If you're terrified to get her off the ground why not work first with simply picking her up. Once she's used to getting picked up and nothing "bad" happens then work on flipping her on her back?

 

[lovelops]

Thanks for the video. I thought it was great... Mocha is such a cutie! I'm going to have to post more pics of Brooke and Lady. Brooke is so heavy, close to 10 pounds now it's hard at times to get a handle on her!

 

[Imbrium]

Are you comfortable sitting on the floor and pulling her into your lap yet? That's where I would start. No picking her up required and if she breaks away, no risk of injury. Once you've got that down, try the tactic I showed in the video of one hand on her chest and one on her rump, but DON'T go straight to trying to flip her over - just get her used to having your hands there.

Basically, pull her into your lap and put your hands on her like you're going to flip her... then, if she hasn't engineered an escape, offer a treat and then let her go about her way. Once you can do that without either of you freaking out, then try flipping her. Again, be sitting on the floor when you do this - that way if she twists around in your arms and makes a break for it, the worst thing that can happen is that you have to chase her down.

It's completely okay if she gets away from you - if she kicks/struggles and attempts to break away from you, sometimes the safest thing to do is to not fight her, since her back feet will inevitably connect with your body (be it arms, legs or torso) as she flips herself back over and you don't actually have to do anything to prevent her from kicking full-force into open air and injuring herself. If she escapes, simply re-exert control/authority by catching her again - this shows her that getting away doesn't mean she's off the hook.

If you have a cell phone or digital camera with video capabilities, feel free to film some of your attempts to work with her and post them here, as that may be more helpful to those offering advice than just describing things - we may be able to gain insights from something about either her body language or yours that can help you learn to handle her. Consider this thread a judgment-free zone - don't worry about Sophie making a fool of you, as I guarantee there's not a rabbit owner around who hasn't been made a fool of by their bunny (as is evidenced by some of the things that happened in the videos aozora and I made)! The fact that they're so clever and capable that they can get the better of us sometimes is a big part of what makes them so endearing as pets .

Oh, and kmaben, I'm going to have to meet these ginormous bunnies of yours when you're back in Texas! I've worked with a 17 lb motherf*cker of a cat, but never a bunny that big - I'd love to have you teach me how to safely handle the largest rabbit breeds.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I have tried several times to grab her from the ground, I cannot for the life of me get a grip on her. She's more slippery than a greased pig on fair day lol.

When I was trying to slow approach with her I spent a lot of time on the ground, coaxing her with treats to get up on my lap. It seems that the most she will do is sit on my lap long enough to grab the treat then jump off or if she's decided she doesn't want to be there because I'm not giving her the treat she's gone!

I am willing to try different techniques, I'm open minded. Hey, I'd shake magic rocks at her if I thought it would help lol. I will try again to pull her onto my lap....it's very difficult to just simply grab her like I said so grabbing and pulling her onto me seems like a monumental task...I won't give up, I'll find someway to do this!

 

[aozora]

Hmmm just some other random suggestions off the top of my head-- but of course, what works with me might not work with you so it's all a matter of trial-and-error!

- Have you tried cornering her to a spot where she can't escape? Make sure to wear something long sleeved and preferably thick when you're doing this. What I do when I get Mocha into a corner is push one side of his flank (like say, the right or left hind leg) real quick to turn him around so he has a ways to spin in order to try and nip me if that's what he has in mind, and scoop him up quickly that way. I always try to get him facing away from me because even though he doesn't nip much anymore, he still does on occasion and it's always better to be safe than sorry!

- Does Sophie do well with traction-less flooring like hardwood/smooth tiles/etc.? Mocha absolutely hates hardwood so back when he wasn't as keen to let me pick him up, I would herd him over to a patch of hardwood in my room (it's all hardwood, but I've got a couple of big rugs laid down for him to have some traction) where he's unsure of himself and too distracted by the OMGSLIPPERY floor to struggle when I pick him up. He does scramble somewhat into my arms which might startle you when you try, but it's never intended to hurt *you*, the bun is just really relieved to have something to cling to lol. Try to do this far away from a carpeted area so that she can't just make a mad dash for the safety zone.

Honest to god, though, I find the "slow and easy approach" never works with Mocha. The whole petting them for a while so they relax and won't struggle when you pick them up advice? Yeah, you can imagine my dismay when Mocha goes from 0 to 100 in a split second and zooms off the moment I try to slip one handunder him, every. single. TIME. So with him I've noticed that the element of surprise works a lot better. Scooping him up before he has the chance to struggle gave me a much better success rate! Does he jump out of my arms a lot? Of course! But that's when persistence pays off because after a few more tries of give-and-chase, it's almost like he goes "Okay, I give up, you win" and finally lets me hold him.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I have tried cornering her, that was what I tried in the beginning to no avail. Though she doesn't like being on the hardwood she will use it to escape if she has to. Oh the best one was I blocked her into the kitchen. I thought, YES!, I've got you cornered now!! As I made contact to grab her, she jumped right over my shoulder, ha ha! What a beastie!!

 

[aozora]

Lol! Oh wow, she sure sounds feisty! How about restricting her to a small space, like maybe the bathroom with the door closed behind you or someplace similar where she's only got limited space to run and no place to hide? Mocha's a lot more likely to give up if he knows resistance is futile.

EDIT: And maybe you can try turning her around to face away from you this time when cornering her? Like I said, not only will she be surprised, she also can't see where she can escape (since she's facing the corner) so you can use that to your advantage.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I think I will maybe just try turning her a few times and see if I can get her used to that...I'm sure I'll find something that she's more receptive to...if all else fails, there's always hog tying lol...jj

 

[Imbrium]

Lol! Oh wow, she sure sounds feisty! How about restricting her to a small space, like maybe the bathroom with the door closed behind you or someplace similar where she's only got limited space to run and no place to hide? Mocha's a lot more likely to give up if he knows resistance is futile.

EDIT: And maybe you can try turning her around to face away from you this time when cornering her? Like I said, not only will she be surprised, she also can't see where she can escape (since she's facing the corner) so you can use that to your advantage.

Bunnies have nearly 360 degree vision; their only blind spot is very small and is located directly in front of them, so facing the corner won't actually make it harder to plot escape routes... however, being in the corner *does* mean 2 of the 4 possible directions are impassible and the human directly behind would certainly block visibility a great deal

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I would've thought her luxurious mane would be a blind spot but it doesn't seem to hinder her in any way...she shakes her head and her mane flies around in reckless abandonment lol.

 

[missyscove]

If I were you I would try working on even just holding her in one spot on the ground. My own rabbits are not cuddle-bunnies (except when it comes to cuddling eachother) but both of them do get regularly handled by me because there are times when you do have to handle them (taking them to the vet, nail trims, emergencies, etc.) and it's important to me that both I and my rabbits are comfortable with it.

We recently had a dinner talk with a vet who sees mostly rabbit and her personal technique started with petting them between the eyes and then working your way back until you were holding their shoulders. If you have good control of their shoulders generally that keeps them from bolting forward.

My bunnies get treats for coming to me, treats for touching me, and treats for climbing into my lap. They think their pellets are treats and that's how they get about 1/2 of their pellets each day.

I don't want you rushing into things both of you aren't comfortable with if you can't even touch her when you want to.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

That's a good suggestion. How do I hold her shoulders? Am I using one hand only? Where should the placement of my hand be(direction)?

Thanks

 

[JBun]

Jennifer, you have an accent! Is it a Texan accent? You and Amy have it sooo easy. Your buns are so well behaved. Yes, even with the little nip you got at the end. Great video's though.

I have one bun that DETESTS being picked up. She bucks, growls, and grunts at me, and this is just to let her out for playtime. I have another that will bite if I reach to pick her up but is fine once I'm holding her. My biting bun I have to first secure her over her shoulders/head(so I don't get bit), then I will reach under her belly with my other hand, and as I'm lifting I will slide my hand that was over the shoulders/head, back to support the rump, and bring her right to my chest. Once she is there she is fine and loves to be snuggled.

My grunty bun does NOT want me picking her up, and it's not because she isn't used to it. I held her all of the time as a baby. As she hit her teen years she decided she hated it for some reason. So she's a bit more difficult to handle. I either have to catch her by surprise when she's near me, or corner her. She's not treat motivated either, or I could use that trick. To get her to hold still so I can pick her up, I will either wait til she is near me and not looking in my direction or get her in a corner where she can't get past me, then I'll quickly place my hand firmly(but gently) over the shoulders so she can't dart away, then scoop right up with a hand on the rump and sliding my shoulder hand under the belly(slightly different than my bitey bun, but works better for this rabbit as she's smaller and wigglier) and right onto my chest where I hold her with a hand under the rump and one over the shoulders. Sometimes having your hand over the eyes helps as well, but you still need to maintain a firm hold. I have to keep a gentle but firm hold on her the whole time I'm holding her as she will always try to squirm loose, except she will sometimes relax when I am giving nose rubs. With flighty buns, you need to halt that flight and fleeing reaction first. So that's what the hand over the shoulders accomplishes. Then when you have the fleeing under control, then you can move to working out the scooping up part.

This video has a few different handling techniques. I don't know if any of them will be helpful.
http://rabbit.org/how-to-handle-a-rabbit/