At what point do you stop trying to pick up an unruly bunny?

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I read many of you say that you need to be firm and confident when picking up your rabbit. This makes sense. It's also been stated that once you have decided to pick them up, you must follow through or they won't take you seriously. This also makes sense.

Now the dilemma...

Sophie always knows when I'm up to no good lol...her spidey senses begin to tingle and before I can place my hand under her belly, she's off to the races!

I've tried the slow approach and I'm not having any success. She did get to the point where I was able to touch her belly and rump but as soon as I made the motion of picking up/flipping she totally freaks out.

My question is: when do you stop trying if you're not getting any success. I know you shouldn't give up on handling them but in the moment, if they're getting agitated or stressed out, should you stop? I don't want to traumatize Sophie and that's my worry with this.

I wish someone would post a video of them dealing with their unruly, biting, kicking rabbit so that I could see what to do. These videos of nice calm bunnies.'all sugary sweet and behaving nice make me sick lol.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I'd also like to see how you guys would grab your bunnies out of their cages! I know it's good to let them to out on their own but what if there's an emergency and you have to get them out fast! That's what I'm worried about.

 

[Ape337]

Honestly, I never pick up my rabbits. When it's time for inspections/nail trims I get them into a carrier and transport them to my dining room table. It's glass and they can't get a grip so it's easy for hubby to hold them down while I cut nails/check up on body parts/whatever else is needed. I got the idea bc this is how it's done at the vet with no issues. It's very non-stressful for me and my buns, and the important jobs get done. That's what really matters right? All 3 of my buns were disposable pets so I didn't have any of them from the baby stage. One of my buns (faith) is very traumatized from her previous home and even after being with me for almost 2 years she still can't be petted. I accept them for who they are and I love them all, even if I can't hold/cuddle/pet them (freckles and humma love pets but don't want to be picked up).

Don't beat yourself up if you're not "tough" enough. I'm not going to stress my rabbits out by grabbing them when I have found a perfectly acceptable way of getting the job done with little stress on them. I did the assertive way with freckles for a while when I first adopted him and he got to the point where I couldn't touch him because he was afraid of me. I wasn't rough with him and I didn't hurt him, but he really just didn't want to be picked up. With using this other way he is fine now and loves to be petted again. There are many ways to achieve the same goal. The point isn't how it's done, just that it gets done. Good luck to you 😊

 

[zombiesue]

Sometimes you will need to pick up your rabbit. I don't think you really need to bend the animal to your will to let it know that you're in charge, but it doesn't hurt to get it used to occasional handling.

When I need my rabbits, I take their litterbox out of their cage (because they always hop in it when they know I want to grab them) and then I just kinda go for it. If he tries to hide in his box, I will dump him out of the box.

Sometimes, when my littler rabbits kick a lot, I kind of set them down again and hold them in place on the floor and pet them, trying to calm them down, then I quickly pick them up and draw them against my chest.

Sometimes it helps to go at a rabbit with a towel. Drop the towel on him/her and scoop her up in it. Keeping their faces covered really reduces their fear and I think that it helps them feel more supported.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3okPKg9Fc8[/ame] here's a video on the bunny burrito, kind of similar concept. Good way to trim nails.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

I'd say never stop--you have to train them to accept your handling--you are supposed to be the alpha. While most don't like it, they will come to accept it. We had more than 40 bunnies and some were "biters"--that's right, bloody chunks of my flesh hanging and profuse bleeding when they first came to us. I work with all of mine every day, still. Some really enjoy being held and rubbed while others tolerate me, but, I haven't been bitten by anyone or had to contend with struggling for quite some time now. Cosmo was a handful and Mr Hoppes was afraid and would bite--they'd both been thru several adoptions and returned because of their behavior and were close to being euthanized--now they are both very good bunnies to the point of being pesty and come when called and accept head rubs willing and tooth purr. You have to be consistent and persistent and read up on rabbit behavior. Just like when training a dog, you have to be cognizant of inherent canine behaviors and act accordingly. Why I tell everyone, you can't be upset with a bunny acting like a bunny and you have to treat them like another rabbit would.

 

[woahlookitsme]

I also never say stop. One thing I would try different. Instead of putting your hand under her stomach to try and pick her up place your hand over her head or eyes first. Think of the belly as the most sensitive part on an animal. It is the most vulnerable area to a predator. By first placing your hand under her belly it is pushing her to run in fear. If you cover her eyes instead its more comforting to some (not all). Work slowly building up on things and when she slips in her progress go back to things she knows. I do this whenever I am working with any animal but learned it the most when working with horses. Start by covering her face and when she just sits still reward her with something either with a treat or simply just removing your hand away. Simple pressure and release works well with training. Pressure is putting your hand over her eyes and release is taking it away. Then move forward to holding your hand over her face and try scooping her up by her bottom with your other hand. Depending on how big she is picking her up might be difficult. With my tans I will stop them with one hand by covering their faces and then scoop them from under their belly. They are quite used to me picking them up this way so its not as hard. Try different ways. If you like using a towel you could have her stop on the towel by covering her face. Then wrapping her like a burrito and picking her up that way.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Thank you for your replies. I would like to be able to pick up Sophie mainly in case of an emergency, and to at some point be able to trim her hoofs lol. I know that she's not the type of rabbit that's going to love being held or lugged around like a football but I feel like I need to be able to do this. I'm just worried about how much she can handle.

As far as the burrito, I have mixed feelings about this. I think this technique may be ok for some bunnies but definitely not for my bunny. Reason being is that the VET couldn't even burrito her!! Either could the tech. She flailed and wormed and kicked like there was a Tasmanian devil in that towel. It was very frightening and scary and they even told me, "whoa she's really difficult!". And these guys are the savvy ones....so you can imagine how I might feel about trying to take on the task as an amateur when the savvies can't even do it.

I have a nail trim appt for her next week so I'll be able to practice picking her up again. That's the annoying thing; she let's me pick her up and hold her at the vet but not at home. I think she's complying mainly because she's PETRIFIED!

Ugh it's all so discouraging. I feel like if I had to get her out of her cage quickly in an emergency that I wouldn't be able to do it...or that I would cause her to hurt herself. This causes me stress and worry

I will try covering her eyes and go at it again. Thank you for the suggestions.

 

[Imbrium]

I read many of you say that you need to be firm and confident when picking up your rabbit. This makes sense. It's also been stated that once you have decided to pick them up, you must follow through or they won't take you seriously. This also makes sense.

Now the dilemma...

Sophie always knows when I'm up to no good lol...her spidey senses begin to tingle and before I can place my hand under her belly, she's off to the races!

I've tried the slow approach and I'm not having any success. She did get to the point where I was able to touch her belly and rump but as soon as I made the motion of picking up/flipping she totally freaks out.

My question is: when do you stop trying if you're not getting any success. I know you shouldn't give up on handling them but in the moment, if they're getting agitated or stressed out, should you stop? I don't want to traumatize Sophie and that's my worry with this.

I wish someone would post a video of them dealing with their unruly, biting, kicking rabbit so that I could see what to do. These videos of nice calm bunnies.'all sugary sweet and behaving nice make me sick lol.

If anyone in the Katy/Houston area has an unruly bunn to volunteer, I'd be willing to make a video, lol. My girls have their outbursts where they kick or bite (well, nip sharply), but those are few and far between since I've been handling them regularly since they were 7-8 weeks old.

As for when to stop... I usually do what I'm gonna do and don't let the bunns thwart me, but sometimes I do let them off the hook if they're being extra difficult to catch and I'm being lazy. They know if I want them bad enough, I'll get them, so it's really not necessary to follow through *every* time. As the boss, I'll get what I want when I want it... but I see it as a matter of respect (and I think my bunnies do too) that if they DON'T want it badly enough, I'll change my mind about getting them. Whether or not I'll let them off the hook also depends on the tone I approached them with - if I addressed them in a "mommy means business" tone, then I'll always follow through but if I approached in a casual/friendly "let's have a snuggle" way, then I'll often let them have their way if they really don't want me bothering them.

With a rabbit that's not used to you, I'd say make the point that you CAN get them no matter how much they don't want you to, but at the same time, learn to read their stress level and know when you've pushed them far enough for the moment. Really, all it takes is to corner them/pin them down (figuratively, of course) in a location so that they have to admit that the chase is over, then pet them a couple times and walk off. They know **** well that you could've picked them up in that moment and simply chose not to, which is the point you really need to make. Going through the chase like you're going to pick them up but then simply petting them instead actually seems to help - it throws them off, making it harder for them to predict your intentions in the future (being able to knock them off their game is very advantageous if they like to play mind games like Nala does), it shows them that you're NOT constantly trying to pick them up against their will and letting them off the hook when they really don't want to be gotten is a show of good faith that helps build trust.

My rabbits (Nala, especially - Gaz is a lazy loaf) really love those chase scenes and often anticipate being "got". I usually have to unlock/open all floors of the condo for swift access before I go after Nala, then chase her from level to level until she corners herself and I nab her; Jay does the same. From time to time we catch her like a little football as she attempts to zoom out the bottom level .

As for flipping them over, you have to be *very* swift about it. They pretty much need to be on their back before they know what's happening. If you're doing it very swiftly and she's still freaking out, you may need to stop trying for a bit and continue earning her trust/conditioning her to accept being handled - it's possible you're rushing things a bit too much for her. Again, you only need to make it known that you *could* pick her up/flip her over - you don't actually HAVE to follow through to make your point.

 

[Imbrium]

As far as the burrito, I have mixed feelings about this. I think this technique may be ok for some bunnies but definitely not for my bunny.

That's the annoying thing; she let's me pick her up and hold her at the vet but not at home. I think she's complying mainly because she's PETRIFIED.

I've never really used the bunny burrito trick except post-spays when I had to force feed critical care (and even then, the towel was as much to prevent messes than anything). I think the effectiveness depends on the rabbit - with some, it can actually make things worse rather than better.

If she's letting you handle her at the vet, then maybe you could try working with her in a foreign area (that's safe, of course)... like if you've got a neighbor or friend who likes bunnies, you could take her (and an x-pen) over there for a play date.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

If I were to flip Sophie over, say on the couch or on the ground, if all I did was flip her then take my hands off, would it be dangerous for her to flip back on her own? If it's safe to do that then maybe I could just get her used to being flipped but then I'm not doing anything else to her until she gets used to that.

Basically what I want to know is when does the kicking get dangerous?

If I remember to, I'm going to take a video at the vet so I can watch it later on.

 

[Imbrium]

I wouldn't recommend it, as she could hurt herself during the split second of flailing before she got upright (you never want to let a rabbit kick their hind legs freely into the air - I've heard that there's a chance it could result in a spinal injury). If she's going to kick, you want her feet to connect with your body and not go through their full range of motion without hitting something.

You could flip her over and then - in the SAME motion/without ever pausing to hold her on her back - immediately flip her upright again and set her down.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Oh ok so it's the action of full ROM where they could get hurt. How about if I hog tie her? That seems pretty effective LOL...just joking of coarse! Boy oh boy I don't know if I'm stealthy enough to do this...I lack bunny confidence...:'(

And my hands are cold and clammy just thinking about doing all this!

 

[Imbrium]

ROFL! Man, now you're tempting me to do naughty things back to my naughty little bunnies >.>

Remember what I said in the other thread - you need to be confident (or at least be able to fake it), as bunnies pick up on stress and anxiety. Why should she trust you if YOU don't even trust you?

I *strongly* recommend doing whatever you normally do to de-stress before working with her - do relaxation exercises, meditate, take a long bath/shower, watch some TV, whatever it is you do to gather yourself when you're overwhelmed! Focus your energy and keep telling yourself that you can do this - you're a huge human, she's a little bunny... you can overpower her without hurting her; you can hold her in a way that prevents her from hurting herself or you. If need be, couple this with slowing down the pace at which you're trying to make "progress" with her. Until you can muster up an air of confidence, don't try to move forward with Sophie. You have to get your mind where it needs to be so that hers can follow, otherwise you'll both be nervous wrecks and things will almost certainly go badly. Her energy WILL feed off of yours, positive or negative.

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

I totally agree! My energy is cold, clammy and non collective lol! She probably thinks she's the boss! Well to be honest with a name like Sophie's Humble Servant, I've become my own self fulfilling prophecy!

It's a good thing I don't have a dog, I could never be a pack leader!

 

[Imbrium]

Lol! My energy is very "I'm the alpha bunn" and Nala still sometimes gets it in her head that she can stage a coup.

Just do your best not to stress and to remember that these things take time so it's perfectly natural to not see immediate results! Work on you, then work on your relationship with her. Also, don't forget the craisins (or whatever treat she fiends for)!

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

When I'm using the treats, do I give the treat first, then try or do I try, fail, give a treat OR do I only give a treat if I succeed?

 

[Imbrium]

Well, if you've failed, then the bunny has escaped your clutches and scampered off, so obviously they've just run away from their chances of getting a treat .

The only "wrong" way to do it would be to throw a treat at a bunny who's hiding on the other side of the room after thwarting you, lol. Beyond that, it's personal preference and what works for you/your bunny (in other words, pick your own tactics through trial and error), though there are some moments when offering a treat tends to be more strategically advantageous.

~ You can try offering a treat as your opening bribe to see if you can circumvent the chase scene (this is most effective if the bunny's in their cage or a bit of a corner when you approach with the treat, and for obvious reasons it works a lot better on a food-motivated bunny than one like my Nala who cares more about trying to get that "win" against you).
~ Do not continue to try to offer the treat if you have to pursue her - she lost out on that treat when she decided to run; now it's a battle of wills (and strategy)!
~ Definitely offer a treat after you've picked the bunny up and/or corralled her in front of you for petting/handling - you won the chase scene, so the bunny gets a treat as a consolation prize. No, she wasn't obedient about it... but it's more important that she learns to associate being "gotten" with good things.
~ If the session ends with her escaping of her own volition, NO treat. If it ends with you choosing to release her, give a treat - her reward for waiting for you to dismiss her.

Oh, and don't forget to break/cut the treats up into appropriately small pieces depending on how many times in a day you plan to work with her!

 

[Sophie's Humble Servant]

Ok that all makes sense, thanks for clarifying that

 

[Imbrium]

No problem .

The key to treats lies mostly in remembering that rabbits can NOT be taught or trained through negative reinforcement - it just doesn't work - but they can learn through *positive* reinforcement. Denial of positive reinforcement is not the same thing as negative reinforcement - it's a matter of making sure you don't positively enforce negative behavior. What you're essentially teaching them with the treats is that it's worth tolerating things they don't like in order to get that nummy, nummy reward .

 

[aozora]

Just wanted to chime in about the confidence bit because it's true! I think I've grown more confident about handling Mocha now - he used to hate getting picked up and would kick up a storm too, both picking up and she putting him down - but I have since grown firmer about it and apart from some occasional chasing around at first because he doesn't want to be picked up, he's been pretty good about it.

Tonight, however, I suggested to my sister that maybe she can try picking him up too, just to get her used to it in case she needs to look after him for me in the future. I showed her how to hold him on a stuffed animal and also slipped my hands under him as a demonstration - he crouched but no flinching or nipping. Then she tried to slip her hand under him, got nervous, drew her hand back and SNAP, he whipped his head around and bit her hand so hard she was actually bleeding with a bit of her skin torn clean off. He had never reacted that way before, but she was noticeably nervous all throughout and in general when interacting with him too. I think it's really true that they can sense fear and uncertainty.