A short note about advertising

[TinysMom]

Hi! I just pulled a thread from here and some of y'all might notice it is gone.

I thought I'd share the policies (as I understand them) while the moderators discuss this again.

We don't usually allow advertising here unless some of the proceeds are going to help rescues.

This means we don't allow advertising of bunnies for sale - and we try to not allow other types of advertising.

You can always put a link in your profile if you have a store or a website with items for sale.

I'm sorry if I seem abrupt here - I'm fighting a migraine and feel lousy - but just wanted to let y'all know where the missing thread went.

Thanks for understanding!

Peg

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Maybe you guys should make a separate forum on here for those of us that do have rabbits for sale. sales also apply to rescues too. Not to start anything, but it would be unfair if the rescues are allowed to adopt and sell their animals on here, but breeders aren't. Not every breeder is going to support rescue when the cost of the rabbit in question barely covers the feed supplies. I am on a bird one where all aspects are supported, including rescue and sales. Works for everyone. they seem to be happy. Just some thoughts.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

also i looked through the site and there doesn't seem to be any official forums rules that apply to anything. Unless i have missed something?

 

[BlueCamasRabbitry]

DixonRabbitry - Rescues don't "sell" their animals, they rehome them for an adoption fee. Just thought I'd clarify that.

Emily

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

There isn't much of a difference. It all comes down to how you view it. Money passes between the owner and the person adopting or selling it(sometimes its considered a resale). My point is that both from breeders and rescues should be considered to be allowed here. If not, then no sales, at all. Like I said it wouldn't be fair to the breeders on here if the rescue side is allowed to do it. (Which I see they are). Why not have something for both. Breeders certainly aren't hurting anyone when they sell their rabbits, and rescues aren't either. Most of us here are pretty responsible with them when it comes to it. I am sure the mods would catch anyone that isn't.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Also I should clarify that I don't rescues are making money. I think my comment may have made it sound like that. LOL. As long as the bunny finds a good home......

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Like always, I feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

I do think that i'd be nice to have a for sale board on here someone. Just to let people get the word out about their rabbits...

And just like rescues ask for $50-80 to cover a spay/neuter, and the cost of feed.... The rabbits I sell for $30-60.... Basically covers the cost of feed (Pfaus is expensive. Over $30 a bag.), and a little extra for time, training, and space. I've yet to profit on a sale. It's gone directly back to pay for another bag of feed, a bale of hay, some medicine. All that sorta stuff. Although, there is a difference between that and asking $150 for a show rabbit with 2 legs. I'm not sure how you'd separate the two... But idk.

 

[Luluznewz]

Okay I just have to say that I'm a tad offended that anyone would think breeding rabbits and selling them is the same thing as what the adoption agencies are doing.

Adoption agencies take rabbits that are going to be abandoned and give them a safe place to live. Some rabbit stay there for months and the adopt fee never changes. It is 20-60 dollars for a rabbit that includes a spay. The spay alone often costs more than that. They take rabbits that are already in the world. They barely recover their losses. They pay for the care of animals that were someone elses responsibility.

Breeders CREATE MORE RABBITS and then sell those rabbits.Of course they should be responsible for the costs, they created them. They choose to bring the animals into the world. Yes, sometimes they dont make much money off it but they are choosing to add more living things to the equation. Agencies would love to get less rabbits. It means less are being abandoned.

I have NOTHING against good breeders. I do, however, have a huge problem with saying breeders are the same as adoption agencies.

They arent even kind of similar, seriously. Adoption agencies save lives and breeders create them. I wouldnt have any problem with a board being devoted to the sale of rabbits, but I think you should admit that those rabbits are being sold, not rescued.

All I'm saying is that its extremely offensive (in my opinion) to argue that adoption agencies are selling rabbits the same way breeders are. I dont mean to offend anyone, but that just seems deeply silly to me. It hurts me a little that rabbit lovers (breeders and non breeders) can't all recognize that there are too many rabbits that are abandoned in shelters looking for homes.

I'm sorry I'm just a little mad. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with breeding at all, but dont try and claim shelters sell their animals.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

Luluznewz wrote:

Yes, sometimes they dont make much money off it but they are choosing to add more living things to the equation. Agencies would love to get less rabbits. It means less are being abandoned.

The rabbits that circulate through the rescue/adoption situation are very often not from reputable breeders. One may occasionally be dropped off, but reputable breeders go to similar extents as adoption agencies when they're looking for pet homes.

However, most animals stay within the breeding/show circle anyway. So the rabbits breeders create stay within the realm of responsible owners, in general terms.

The rabbits ending up at adoption agencies are most often the product of backyard breedings operations, irresponsible pet owners, and the like. Just thought I'd clarify that, because the reputable breeders on this forum are not really the issue you're dealing with at a rescue.

As mentioned, breeders make nothing off of sales. Even those who can sell top quality for higher prices are lucky if they break even. So neither group is benefitting from the exchange of money for rabbits. The only ones who are, are the previously mentioned backyard breeders and such. Just thought I'd clarify.

----------------------------

On a side note, I think a sale forum strictly for the breeding/show area would be a great idea. If the pet end of the forum supports rescue, I think that what DixonsRabbitry was saying about a sale forum makes sense. Both groups would benefit.

 

[Shaded Night Rabbitry]

Where do you live for rabbits to cost $20-60? It's very rare for a rabbit to be under $80 from a rescue here.

And I never said that I'm a rescue, and that I wasn't 'selling' rabbits. I most certainly am. But I'm also selling purebred, fancy rabbits with great temperments. The majority of rabbits in shelters I've seen have been there for a reason...

It's supply and demand. Say, if I weren't here... Then someone would be going to the other CL breeders I see, who house their rabbits in crummy conditions, overcrowd, and underfeed. There may be 20 rabbits in a seattle shelter, but out of those, how many don't have health problems such as maloclussion or snuffles? How many after that don't have some type of behavorial problem, like cage aggression, or biting issues?

I'd much rather purchase a $40 rabbit from a breeder who's cages and animals I can see, who's animals are vet checked by a knowledgable vet (the two rescues I've had contact with were vet checked by students, who didn't know a thing about rabbits. They fed so many bad foods that the rabbit died a week after leaving, due to pure dehydration and side effects from diarrea)

It's not a one sided deal. I'm constantly emailed by people being yelled at for bringing more lives of healthy, well tempered animals into the world, while there's "perfectly good" ones in the shelter. Out of all of those, how many are actually pet worthy? Quite few in my experience.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

Hi. Lulz i don't think either of us meant to offend. It just depends on how you view it. Coming from a breeders pov it looks like a sale. However, i do understand that many of the animals are taken out of bad situations and a lot of work of work is put into them. There is also a lot of work put into breeding show quality, and even the pet quality rabbits that come out of those show lines. Another point is is that if you are going to have a website that supports both breeding and rescue then the breeders should also have their own space where they would be allowed to sell(or adopt,, whatever you want to call it) their animals too. It just doesn't seem fair that rescues can advertise but breeders are reprimanded for it. We may be creating more, but we are also striving to breed purebred, healthy animals, that are show quality,and would also make excellent pets, 4h bunnies, etc. Few show quality animals make it into the shelters, and that is providing that she shelter actually takes in rabbits at all. (Most in my area rarely see them, unless you go upstate a bit).

rabbittalk.com is a forum that does something like that.

pigeon talk is another.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

OakRidgeRabbits wrote:

Luluznewz wrote:

Yes, sometimes they dont make much money off it but they are choosing to add more living things to the equation. Agencies would love to get less rabbits. It means less are being abandoned.

The rabbits that circulate through the rescue/adoption situation are very often not from reputable breeders. One may occasionally be dropped off, but reputable breeders go to similar extents as adoption agencies when they're looking for pet homes.

However, most animals stay within the breeding/show circle anyway. So the rabbits breeders create stay within the realm of responsible owners, in general terms.

The rabbits ending up at adoption agencies are most often the product of backyard breedings operations, irresponsible pet owners, and the like. Just thought I'd clarify that, because the reputable breeders on this forum are not really the issue you're dealing with at a rescue.

As mentioned, breeders make nothing off of sales. Even those who can sell top quality for higher prices are lucky if they break even. So neither group is benefitting from the exchange of money for rabbits. The only ones who are, are the previously mentioned backyard breeders and such. Just thought I'd clarify.

----------------------------

On a side note, I think a sale forum strictly for the breeding/show area would be a great idea. If the pet end of the forum supports rescue, I think that what DixonsRabbitry was saying about a sale forum makes sense. Both groups would benefit.

Yes. And maybe we could be encouraged (not forced0 to donate a little bit of the money to animal rescues in one way or another. I like donating to the bunny bunch every now and then. Never been through a rabbit sale. But on ebay with artwork. i also donate part of my art sales to a wildlife center too.

 

[TinysMom]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

also i looked through the site and there doesn't seem to be any official forums rules that apply to anything. Unless i have missed something?

Unacceptable Behavior (Subject toWarnings):

- name calling

- ridiculing of another's opinion

- failure to 'agree to disagree'

- the posting of obviously inflammatorytopics (eg: rabbit meat, breeder vs.animal rights attacks)

- overly abrasive or negative posts on any topic

- personal vendettas

- 'advertising' or linking other forums or commercialventuresin posts (see Content Rulesfor advertising policies).

Forum Decorum

 

[Luluznewz]

I think the point of my first post was very clear and may have been responded too differently than expected.

I wasn't saying that reputable breeders contribute to the over crowded shelters, because I dont think they do. I realize its backyard breeders causing the problem.

Also, I completely understand why some people get rabbits from breeders...I'm considering doing it myself. They are assured to get a healthy, pretty, great rabbit. So, again, that what not what I was saying.

I was just saying that it is very different than adopting and I resent the implication that the two are somehow even remotely similar. Shelters rescue animals and breeders produce high quality animals that improve the standard. They are both great for different reasons... If you want to save an animal go to a shelter, if you want a quality assured rabbit go to a breeder.

I think the point of my post was pretty clear, and I feel like the point has been made, so I wont go on any further. I am sorry if I ruffled any breeders feathers, because I had no intention of insulting your practices.

I just think everyone on this site can / should see the difference between shelters and breeders.

Like I said, I would like a "for sale" board, it would be fun to see all the cute bunnies!

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

thank you. its really confusing because I had a heck of a time finding anything like that. Maybe that section shoul dbe renamed forum rules?

 

[TinysMom]

dixonsrabbitry1 wrote:

Maybe you guys should make a separate forum on here for those of us that do have rabbits for sale. sales also apply to rescues too. Not to start anything, but it would be unfair if the rescues are allowed to adopt and sell their animals on here, but breeders aren't. Not every breeder is going to support rescue when the cost of the rabbit in question barely covers the feed supplies. I am on a bird one where all aspects are supported, including rescue and sales. Works for everyone. they seem to be happy. Just some thoughts.

No - it would NOT be unfair at all.

Rescues often LOSE money (more so than breeders) when adopting out rabbits because they need to get donations to help cover the cost of the spay unless they find a vet who will charge them only a little OR possibly donate their services.

I apologize for this whole thread - I actually meant to lock it just so folks would know why a thread had disappeared versus starting a discussion like this.

 

[dixonsrabbitry1]

I think I am going to have to politely disagree, tinys mom. I think it is something you guys should consider, since there seems to be some that like the idea. its also a good discussion, so no need to apologize.

 

[SnowyShiloh]

Shaded Night Rabbitry wrote:

Where do you live for rabbits to cost $20-60? It's very rare for a rabbit to be under $80 from a rescue here.

And I never said that I'm a rescue, and that I wasn't 'selling' rabbits. I most certainly am. But I'm also selling purebred, fancy rabbits with great temperments. The majority of rabbits in shelters I've seen have been there for a reason...

It's supply and demand. Say, if I weren't here... Then someone would be going to the other CL breeders I see, who house their rabbits in crummy conditions, overcrowd, and underfeed. There may be 20 rabbits in a seattle shelter, but out of those, how many don't have health problems such as maloclussion or snuffles? How many after that don't have some type of behavorial problem, like cage aggression, or biting issues?

I'd much rather purchase a $40 rabbit from a breeder who's cages and animals I can see, who's animals are vet checked by a knowledgable vet (the two rescues I've had contact with were vet checked by students, who didn't know a thing about rabbits. They fed so many bad foods that the rabbit died a week after leaving, due to pure dehydration and side effects from diarrea)

It's not a one sided deal. I'm constantly emailed by people being yelled at for bringing more lives of healthy, well tempered animals into the world, while there's "perfectly good" ones in the shelter. Out of all of those, how many are actually pet worthy? Quite few in my experience.

I promise I'm not trying to stir anything up. And Peg, I know you said you wanted to lock this thread to avoid a discussion, and I may be making things worse, but I have to comment on this because no one has yet. Shaded Night Rabbitry, the first bolded part reads like you're blaming the bunnies in shelters for being there. There is indeed a reason that bunnies are at shelters, but it is not because anything the rabbits have done- it's completely the fault of their owners. And to say that only a few shelter rabbits are pet worthy? Wow. Just... wow. Oh and incidentally, my two shelter bunnies are doing great and my two breeder bunnies (who came from good breeders!) died from illness.

Okay, done!

 

[TinysMom]

Well...first of all - this probably should have been discussed in "chat about the forum" - but PLEASE do not start a discussion about this in there at this time. Trust me - this is already under discussion already by the moderators.

There are some things though that I think you all should know.

First of all - this has been discussed before by the admins/sr mods - more than once. So it isn't like this is a "new" topic to us. We have thought about it.

I'm one of the ones against it. (There are others - it isn't just me). Why am I against it?

I remember a situation a few years ago where someone was selling homemade toys to support a rescue...only thing was - some people who paid for them didn't get them. It was just a few folks..but enough to cause some bad feelings on the forum.

I remember another situation where someone was making clay items to benefit a rescue. Someone ordered several...and never paid up...even though they got made.

But here is a final situation. I'm going to use Shaded Night as an example since she raises ND - which sometimes can have teeth issues.

Let's say she advertises her bunnies and someone from the forum buys one from her. Now when she sells it - the rabbit is free from teeth problems. In fact, genetically - the rabbit is fine. But while the new owner is out all day - the rabbit gets bored - chews on his cage bars - and after 3 weeks or so - damages his teeth and stops eating as much. The owner takes the rabbit to the vet (cause we encouraged them to) - only to find out the teeth are messed up.

Now they're going to point to Shaded Night...and if it gets on the forum (which it would most likely) - then we wind up with another bad situation.

This next part is NOT directed at any one person or group of persons. Ok?

Sometimes I get so sick and tired of people saying, "We should add this to the forum" or "We need to add that feature".

Why do I hate that? Because it seems like everyone feels like this forum is "free" to run. Guess what folks? It ain't. Our funds are NOT unlimited - and I bet that maybe 10-20 people pay the majority of the running of this forum. Possibly more - I'll up it to 40 just to be safe.

This forum needs a lot of "behind the scenes" work - like updates - or to move to a different forum type where we have more updates available. Do we have the money?

NO.

So yeah...I get frustrated at the "let's just add one more section".

Anyway - to my final point. One way we worked around this in the past is we have a member that sells something other than bunnies. She paid to become an RO Friend - and in her signature line she links to her business. It works for her - and we're comfortable with it.

I am going to talk to Pipp and others about an idea I do have. I'm going to ask if we can have a sticky in the rabbitry area where each of us can post our website (once) along with the breeds we breed. This way we're not selling particular animals....just pointing to our website.

Also - I will ask if she will allow breeders to put their website in their signature lines if they join as an RO Friend.

I'll get back to everyone.

 

[TinysMom]

Putting on Sr. Mod flack jacket here - and flame retardant gear.

I want the whole rescue vs. breeder discussion to stop. Now.

I will leave this thread open for discussion on sales/advertising - but that is all.

I'm sorry - I know I seem mean. But the whole breeder vs. rescue thing is just too much for me to moderate right now. I breed rabbits and I have a rescued rabbit. I see the reason for both.

Thanks to everyone for honoring my request.

I am about to start a new thread about advertising your rabbitry (not about on this forum).