a picture and a question

[manda]

this is what Ryo and Alex do alot. Sometimes it leads to the other just hopping away, sometimes it leads to agressive behavior. Is it something good or bad that they are doing, and whats the meaning behind it. sorry for so many questions. i was just wondering!

 

[naturestee]

It looks like the brown one (Ryo?) is trying to get Alex to groom her. But apparently Alex doesn't want to. Part of that is status- the groomer is below the other bunny in the hierarchy. I've heard you can trick them into grooming each other by dabbing a little vanilla or peanut butter on their heads, but I haven't tried that. What I have done is pet them at the same time, which makes them feel loved while they are next to each other.

 

[manda]

thanks! sometimes Ryo grooms Alex, but Alex NEVER grooms Ryo. Alex usually will try to bite Ryo after she grooms him! maybe nipping is starting like this because Alex is saying "hey i am not going to groom you, go away"

or even Ryo getting upset that shes not being groomed so she nips him.

i will start to pet them when they are like this, but i am scared it would make them stop and not even have the chance to groom.

 

[manda]

sounds like they are confused at whos the boss. Ryo insist she be groomed, yet she will groom Alex

 

[rubysmom]

It seems like Ryo is the subordinate bunny but is still getting used to that. How long have they been bonded? It sometimes takes them a little while to get the hierarchy down. Hazel, my male, has just recently bonded to Ellie, my female. Ellie is definitely top bunny but is very laid back and relaxed. Hazel was forever trying to get Ellie to groom him but while they were establishing their relationship she would consistently refuse. Sometimes she would nip him and run away when he got pushy but most of the time she would just force her head under his chin. As things progressed, he got the idea and would usually groom her. I think because Ellie is so calm and just overall a confident bunny that she warmed up to him quicker. Now she will concede to grooming him on occasion but these are always short bouts of grooming and she usually reinforces her position by having him groom her afterwards. Now Ruby and Smitty, my former rabbit pair, were different because Ruby was a typical "queen rabbit". She almost never groomed Smitty no matter how much he begged. Eventually she started rough grooming him and it turned into the very rare lick from her. Sounds like Ryo and Alex are just working things out.

 

[manda]

there not bonded yet, but i hope soon. its been five months that i have been trying!!!

do you stop rabbit bites too? or just rabbit fights?

also after that thing (see pic) occurs Ryo will sometimes lightly CHEW on his face, but that makes Alex very mad and he will jump up and try to kick box her. why is Ryo lightly chewing on him? she does that to his ears to. she just eases over there and opens her mouth, puts it on him and it looking like she is biting lots but really soft. is that a sort of grooming?

thanks for being so helpful

 

[rubysmom]

A lot of times when rabbits are going through the bonding process the initial grooming is very rough looking, almost like biting. This is not unusual and a lot of times the recipient of the rough grooming will put up with it to a point. Then he/she might get fed up or have gotten nibbled a little too hard and run off, nip back, etc. This is pretty normal. Eventually as they become more bonded they will start to groom each other more gently. This rough grooming can be startling at first because it looks like one rabbit is actually biting at the other. This is just a precursor to "real" grooming. At first, I use my spray bottle to break up any disputes. Mainly I do this because it gets each rabbit distracted and grooming themselves in near proximity to the other rabbit. Ignoring the other rabbit and grooming themselves kind of signals to the other rabbit that they don't view him as a threat nor are they acting threatening. If they ignore each other and just groom themselves that is a good thing on the way to bonding two rabbits. As my bonding sessions go longer and I get a better feel for each rabbit's personality I let their "disagreements" work themselves out. I only do this when I know pretty much how far each rabbit will take it and I am always ready to step in with my spray bottle or a towel/broom to break up anything that gets too serious. But these little "fights" are important in letting each rabbit figure out how far they can push the other. They usually figure out a hierarchy from this. I don't know if you have any siblings but it is very common in humans. You test your limits and boundaries with your siblings. It sounds like Ryo and Alex are making progress. It is encouraging that you are seeing rough grooming. And Alex may retaliate right now but I would bet that he will start to relax as they get more used to each other.

 

[rubysmom]

Also Ryo might be moving a bit too fast for Alex with the grooming. Alex is just trying to make sure Ryo knows that he is still the boss and reinforce his position in the group. Plus, I have noticed that sometimes if rabbits have not been exposed to other rabbits it takes a little while for them to figure out that this is ok. Alex should settle down when he feels more comfortable with Ryo. Just keep up the bonding sessions.

 

[manda]

the spray bottle thing never worked! it never kept them from fighting and they never groomed themselfs. i even got a pretty good sized water gun, and it still does nothing! lol! yeah Ryo grooms herself setting right next to Alex, but Alex wont groom himself very often. Ryo is also relaxed and will streach out. not the case with Alex. he stays ready to run away from Ryo. and i know if Alex approaches Ryo there will be some nipping.

so i need to let the nipping occur? do i prevent fur pulling? they havent done any fur pulling in a loooong time.



ps. its sooo funny that my 2 lbs rabbit is dominating my 6lb rabbit!

 

[rubysmom]

Sounds like they are slowly working things out. It might just take them a little while to settle into a stable relationship. As long as the nipping doesn't result in injury (aside from some superficial fur loss) I would let it continue. I found that there is really no way to avoid it and still bond them. Nipping is such an important part of bunny language (even when not meant to reprimand another rabbit) so it would probably be counterproductive to try and stop them. I would just keep watching them and intervene when you think no one is going to back down and it might get serious. That's funny that the water doesn't work. My first female , Ruby, was a black rex and she was TOP bunny with her bonded bun, Smitty. He absolutely loved her and would do anything for Ruby. One day when they were in a bonding session they got in a fight and I used the water bottle to break it up. They stopped fighting and Smitty started washing his face. But Ruby just sat there totally p***ed off! She wouldn't even groom herself. She just sat there frozen in place, glaring at me with water dripping off her nose! Thank goodness she was a sweetie with people because if I didn't know her she would have scared me with that look.

 

[manda]

Ryo doesnt even act like she knows she has been sprayed. and a time or two i really let her have it with that water gun. it has no effect on her at all. but Alex turned around real quick to attack whatever he thought it was that was aggervating him

so i dont bother with spraying with water, i might try it again tho. maybe i need to try shooting Ryo dead on her nose. actaully, how thing have been lately Alex is the one that will need squirted, Ryo doesnt do the aggresssion.