1st time mom all 3 babies died ADVICE!

Discussion in 'General Rabbit Discussion' started by Morgsmom, Dec 9, 2019.

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  1. Dec 9, 2019 #1

    Morgsmom

    Morgsmom

    Morgsmom

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    We have purebred holland lop, she is 1 year old, and a buck who is also purebred and pedigreed he is also 1 year from different rabbit farm. These are our first bunnies, got both around 4 months old. First time we put them together they bred very naturally and safe no problems. Last night around 8 pm when feeding her (she lives outside in bunny barn in her own hutch) there were 2 babies in different areas of hutch ( not in the box) one had some of its stomach out from a small slit, looked like an accident honestly not been eaten or anything . Another was perfect formed but not breathing. I brought it inside and worked on it for 30 minutes following all the tips I’ve read (warm water dunks with head out) hair dryer, towels...it didn’t work :-( so to keep an eye on our girl (Camilla) we brought her and her nest box into a indoor cage we have . We woke up this morning around 6 am with another baby. Also dead, it seemed to be fully formed but looked like it’s midsection had been squished??? Any ideas on what’s happening? She is laying on the baby and I don’t know if I should take it out now . She doesn’t want me to and it’s so sad! How long could she be in labor? Is it possible after this many hours that she could have more ?
     
  2. Dec 9, 2019 #2

    Augustus&HazelGrace

    Augustus&HazelGrace

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    It's common for hollands to lose their first entire litter. It's also common for any first time mom to lose a whole litter. Yes, you need to take out the dead baby. Hollands typically only have about 3-4 so that is probably all of the babies she will have. Labor typically only lasts 15 minutes so with her having another one this morning and she is still in the box does she look exhausted still breathing heavily, still contracting? If so she may have a stuck kit and you need to take her to the vet right now. Can I ask what your intentions are for breeding? Making show bunnies or pet bunnies? I'm not judging... just curious.
     
  3. Dec 9, 2019 #3

    Morgsmom

    Morgsmom

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    We love her so much we just wanted her to have babies one time so we could keep one of her daughters to live with her. I don’t have intentions of keeping the buck because he is not as loving as her. But he is very pretty and pedigreed so after she has successful litter I will sell him. I already have 3 babies promised out but We definitely want to keep one.
     
  4. Dec 9, 2019 #4

    Augustus&HazelGrace

    Augustus&HazelGrace

    Augustus&HazelGrace

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    I would not recommend breeding her to keep one of the babies. Baby personalities can change drastically from babyhood to adulthood and female/female bonds are one of the hardest to do and even after being fully bonded it is a fragile relationship. And I would recommend getting both your male and female spayed and neutered and try to bond them together. Please don't get rid of him "Just because he isn't as loving as her" all rabbits have different personalities and male/female bonds are way easier to do. Also, there is no guarantee that mom and daughter will bond. But either way, if you want to keep them as pets the female NEEDS to be spayed before her 3rd birthday. After 3-4 years they have an 80% chance of getting uterine cancer. And neutering your buck will help with litterbox habits. A lot of people will recommend keeping them inside if they are to be pets. It is quite simple to keep them inside and I can help you figure out how to set it up if you decide to keep them in. But I know there are certain reasons that some people can't keep them in. But if they to stay outside are the hutches the minimum size? It should be enough for them to hop 3 times, be able to lay fully outstretched and to stand all the way up without them touching the top of the hutch. Even if you decide to still sell him she needs to be spayed and after 4 weeks then you should go to a rabbit rescue or a shelter and have her chose a bonding partner, this needs to be HER decision but you can pick out a rabbit that you like and see if they will get along, most rescues and some shelters will let you do bunny dates.
     
  5. Dec 9, 2019 #5

    Augustus&HazelGrace

    Augustus&HazelGrace

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    Here is the house rabbit society's rabbit savvy vet list for Tennessee.
    Tennessee

    Animal Emergency & Specialty Center
    Dr. Katherine Baine
    10213 Kingston Pk
    Knoxville, TN 37922
    865-413-0673

    Little House Animal Hospital
    Dr. Kathleen Kunkel
    1109 Battlewood St
    Franklin, TN 37069
    615-791-9148

    McKay’s Mill Animal Hospital
    2090 Oxford Gln # 100
    Franklin, TN 37067-8657
    (615)599-3783

    Grassmere Animal Clinic
    Dr. Cindy Brumbelow
    3926 Nolensville Road
    Nashville, TN 37211
    (615) 832-6535

    Hillsboro Animal Hospital
    Dr. Chad Given
    2207 Bandywood Drive
    Nashville, TN 37215
    (615) 298-2663

    Emory Animal Hospital
    Dr. Andrew Skelley
    2311 W. Emory Road
    Powell, TN 37849
    (865) 947-0437

    All Creatures Pet Hospital
    Ralph Pope, DVM
    2050 W. Poplar #106
    Collierville, TN 38017
    (901) 853-4220

    Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences,
    College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Tennessee
    Cheryl B. Greenacre, DVM
    2407 River Drive, C-247
    Knoxville, TN 37996
    (865) 974-8387

    There are several low-cost spay-neuter clinics in Tennessee you will just have to do some digging on who is rabbit savvy and who isn't. Just type in "low cost spay-neuter clinics in Tennessee"
     
  6. Dec 9, 2019 #6

    Augustus&HazelGrace

    Augustus&HazelGrace

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    Does she still look like she may be in labor? Exhausted, heavy breathing, contracting, acting as if she is in pain, still eating and drinking?
     
  7. Dec 9, 2019 #7

    zupper

    zupper

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    Hi, how many days since you bred them? what is her diet? any stress recently? is male bigger or smaller than she is? Is she overweight?

    Female rabbits have two separate uterine horns so can have two litters a few days apart so it is possible she will have more babies. If she's not feeling well maybe she's having problems maybe baby is too big or something, maybe you can contact your local vet maybe she needs help.

    First litter not necessarily is unsuccessful, all my first-timers did great and were excellent mothers, it could be just stress or maybe wrong diet so babies weren't formed fully. I am sorry you lost them, hopefully she'll get well soon
     
  8. Dec 9, 2019 #8

    Preitler

    Preitler

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    About keeping a girl, well, that's what I do with my breeding does, I have 2 mother-daughter pairs. In my opinion, that's easier than putting rabbits together that don't know each other, have different socialasation and so on. The daughter grows up in the hierachy, learns the social skills, and they learn how to handle the other does moods. Never noticed that puberty was a big factor in that setting. Rabbits, by nature, are social animals, they can work that out by themself, what makes it difficult is human intervention, like seperating and reintroducing.

    I keep all doelings with mum and the second doe up to 5, 6 months, but I can see earlier which one get along with her better, is most relaxed around her. If a place is vacant I keep that one.
    There are others that don't get along well, doesn't matter much while they are in a group and have enough space to avoid each other when they feel like it.

    Sorry, that none of the kits made it, that does happen. When breeding, many use the 3 strikes rule, if that or another mishap happens three times most likely there's something wrong with the doe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  9. Dec 9, 2019 #9

    Morgsmom

    Morgsmom

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    It was exactly 31 days. The babies all looked fully formed and perfect, except the last one looked a little weird in the midsection ( maybe she had a hard time delivering that one). She was only bred once, I put her in with male, they bred, then I took her out and Reuther to her hutch. She isn’t breathing hard today and has been eating her veggies. She is very healthy as far as weight and her stool is always good. She eats alphalpha, Dumor food, veggies and herbs
     
  10. Dec 9, 2019 #10

    zupper

    zupper

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    It is hard to say, if they were out of nest box they maybe died from cold, why they left it or maybe she delivered outside the nestbox? Or maybe nestbox wasn't high enough? If you could post some photo of your setup including nest box?
    Is she all the time on alfalfa or only during pregnancy? I've checked Dunmor Classic it is also based on alfalfa, are they getting regular hay as well?
    What vegetables she's getting and how much?
     
  11. Dec 10, 2019 #11

    majorv

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    As others mentioned, it isn’t unusual for first time moms to lose their first litter. You can try breeding again and watch her as it gets closer to kindling. By about day 28 give her plenty of hay and a nestbox. The vast majority of our first timers went on to have a successful 2nd litter.
     
  12. Dec 10, 2019 #12

    impudentlagomorph

    impudentlagomorph

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    You mentioned breeding two Holland lops together. If both parents are true dwarves it is possible that the one kit that looked squished is what they call a peanut. About 25% of litters born to dwarf/dwarf pairing will be peanuts. Peanuts inherit the dwarf gene twice, and it is lethal. So at least that one kit dying would not be on your doe, just bad luck with the dwarf gene inheritance. If you want to breed again this site contains good information on genetics, and dwarfism is on this link:
    https://www.raising-rabbits.com/dwarf-rabbits.html
    Good luck!
     

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